Butch is Phil...

#76
#76
Gramps said:
Fulmer trusted Chief and Cut. He did not trust Sanders or Clawson
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Sanders wasn't to bad,why he hired Clawson,i still have no idea,wasn't DeBord in the conversation when Clawson was hired ? him and CPF had a lot of the same philosophizes on Offense and would have probably done great
 
#81
#81
Wylo said:
Jones couldn't beat Dooley. That's really all you need to consider.
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And he beat Spurrier twice. So what? More pointless one-liners from you, simply trying to invoke a reaction.

Relax. You don't have to reach quite that far to find things to be critical of. There are plenty of legitimate reasons.
 
#82
#82
armchair said:
Yes, I think the comparison is very valid. Butch is a not-very-bright, conservative tactician and game-day coach, much as Fulmer was. Fulmer was happy to kick field goals and play field-position football while coaches like Spurrier were smart and aggressive and always going for the jugular. With DeBord Jones is more like a latter-day Bo Schembechler (sp). Yea, we ran a trick play in the first half, but when it got to crunch time Butch goes right back in the shell. Going into a shell might be defensible if UT's defense could seal a game--but THEY CAN'T. THE D CHOKES away every opportunity it gets to win a game. Maybe it's time for Jones to get that--you have to be creative and go for scores EVERY TIME you have the ball.
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Uh...no.

Fulmer was the OC in 1989, '90, '91 and '92.

1989 - 28.8 pts/game 24th of 106
1990 - 35.8 pts/game 11th of 107
1991 - 29.3 pts/game 21st of 107
1992 - 28.9 pts/game 16th of 107

Spurrier became HC at UF in 1990 and us old guys remember the Fun n Gun that he developed in the USFL and eventually brought to Gainesville, it was new to SEC ball, nobody was doing anything like that. Fulmer went 2-1 against the HBC as an OC.

1990 - 35.2 yds/game
1991 - 32.4 yds/game
1992 - 24.2 yds/game

In 1989, in Fulmer's first year as OC, Tennessee started the season unranked, went 11-1, won the SEC and finished ranked 5th in the AP. The most wins in a season of Johnny Majors' coaching tenure. The only Majors led team to finish ranked higher was the '85 team that beat Miami in the Sugar Bowl to finish 4th in the AP.

As the OC he was 38-9-2.

1 top 5 finish, 1 top 10 finish, 2 top 15 finishes with Majors on the sideline and Fulmer in the booth as OC.

Obviously the game has changed a lot with the up tempo/shotgun/spread etc...and of course with Jones and Co. they do that stuff...you'd think that would result in more points but it hasn't. Butch and Debord are even more conservative than Fulmer as an OC, maybe if they had Andy Kelly they'd do something different. :)

Certainly, by the end of Fulmer's tenure, maybe things had gotten stale, fallen behind...but these coaches over there right now, well...they haven't earned the right to be compared to Fulmer and I'd bet they'd tell you that themselves. They have a long way to go and I hope for the best.
 
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#84
#84
governmentmule said:
Sanders wasn't to bad,why he hired Clawson,i still have no idea,wasn't DeBord in the conversation when Clawson was hired ? him and CPF had a lot of the same philosophizes on Offense and would have probably done great
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Sanders was Phil's first fall guy.

Randy has done okay for himself he has 2 BCSCG rings.
 
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#85
#85
Gramps said:
Sanders was Phil's first fall guy.

Randy has done okay for himself he has 2 BCSCG rings.
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Yes he has! I'm proud of him, he and his took a whole lot of ish 'round here back then and he spent those miserable years in Lexington...he's done good.
 
#86
#86
maddux5150 said:
Spot on
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As I recall, we didn't have anyone drafted last year. And at most, we might have one or two seniors drafted in 2016. For a school like Tennessee, that is an extremely poor performance for back-to-back recruiting classes. Butch didn't walk into a gold mine of talent.
 
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#89
#89
vol66 said:
Yes he has! I'm proud of him, he and his took a whole lot of ish 'round here back then and he spent those miserable years in Lexington...he's done good.
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He still bleeds Orange after all that happened. He has not forgotten where he came from.

He is a much better coach than some on here give him credit for and what is more important he is a good man.
 
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#90
#90
Gramps said:
He still bleeds Orange after all that happened. He has not forgotten where he came from.

He is a much better coach than some on here give him credit for and what is more important he is a good man.
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Yep! :thumbsup:
 
#91
#91
Why do we persist in comparing coaches and why are we comparing Butch to Fulmer? To my thinking he is like Majors who got up big, got conservative and lost.
 
#95
#95
Wilhelm16 said:
First off, Until Butch appears even remotely possible of finishing his career 100 games over .500, let's not make comparisons. Debord and Cut are not even close to comparable, and given the Debord is like 80 years old, yes, we'll need a different OC.

Fulmer recruited well, and had a great staff around him to compliment him. When he had a subpar OC (Sanders) he still had enough talent from recruiting that the Vols were contenders on the national scene. 2005 was a year where lack of leadership on the roster along with Sanders finally being exposed as an inadequate OC led to an underachieving season. Chief's defense in 05 was ridiculously good. Recruiting took a hit, and after hiring another in-over-his- head OC, Phil didn't have the players to out talent teams in the SEC anymore. Until Butch gets the guys around him who he can trust to run things while he acts as a front man/cheerleader/fundraiser, he'll never compete in the SEC on the level that Phil did.
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Fulmer's reign as head coach started with a loaded roster...and I freely acknowledge that much of that was due to Fulmer's recruiting as an assistant...Butch started with a very weak roster...he signed a decent class his first year but has now land two really good classes...I expect Butch will win a couple of SEC titles over the next decade...
 
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#98
#98
Jax_Vol said:
But, you can't make that comparison. Phil inherited a team that was already loaded for bear....When Butch came along, the well was bone dry.
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Keep believing that Butch inherited nothing. One day you will realize the fallacy of your statement.
 
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