Butch deserves NO Raise and NO extension

#376
#376
sjt18 said:
The UT AD cornered itself with both Fulmer and Dooley by giving extensions and raises for minimal "improvement". Fulmer actually went to the CG before receiving a revised contract that ended up putting UT in the hole with his buyout.

All I am saying is don't overstate what Jones "deserves" a raise for...

If I am not mistaken, his assistants are on two year contracts and will be due next year. Depending on how things go, changes could be necessary. Not all of UT's position groups have shown good progress (namely WR).
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I think some people just want it to be as hard to get rid of this staff as possible. Unfortunately, Dave Hart may feel that way.
 
#377
#377
If he wins out, you give him the raise or whatever. That helps him sell stability to recruits and maybe he pulls in another great class. I'm not opposed to the "process", I would be opposed to mediocrity defined as progress. 9 wins? Give it to him...GBO!
 
#378
#378
Progress from a disaster fire is why he's being paid to begin with. So rewarding him for doing his job is confusing me. He's not exceeding expectations, just rolling along. They're is no reason to reward him for improving on the job Derek Dooley did.
 
#379
#379
I get it, but a guy that comes in to that kind of disaster and turns it into a 9 win season within 3 years is going to be in demand. Others will pay him more to win 9 games for them. Leaving us with potentially another Dools disaster. I would hate to see that happen as Im sure everyone on VN would. 9 wins is big for a program that just had that...
 
#380
#380
volfanbill said:
Progress from a disaster fire is why he's being paid to begin with. So rewarding him for doing his job is confusing me. He's not exceeding expectations, just rolling along. They're is no reason to reward him for improving on the job Derek Dooley did.
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He was hired to reestablish our football program which he is doing. If there had been NO progress, then I may agree with part of what you are saying. What he has accomplished so far deserves a raise and an extension. There is no reason to give the impression to recruits and the other coaches in the SEC that we are not better than we have been in 8-10 years He has earned a raise and an extension which will result in continued recruiting successes and the development of quality depth as well as more wins in the SEC.
 
#383
#383
sjt18 said:
The UT AD cornered itself with both Fulmer and Dooley by giving extensions and raises for minimal "improvement". Fulmer actually went to the CG before receiving a revised contract that ended up putting UT in the hole with his buyout.

All I am saying is don't overstate what Jones "deserves" a raise for...

If I am not mistaken, his assistants are on two year contracts and will be due next year. Depending on how things go, changes could be necessary. Not all of UT's position groups have shown good progress (namely WR).
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I understand your point, but he's drastically improved the situation in Knoxville from the year before. I'm not advocating for a 5 year extension and a raise. I just think that you can reward the coaches monetarily for another step forward (if we win out). We can make extension decisions after next season.
 
#386
#386
Bluetic said:
I get it, but a guy that comes in to that kind of disaster and turns it into a 9 win season within 3 years is going to be in demand. Others will pay him more to win 9 games for them. Leaving us with potentially another Dools disaster. I would hate to see that happen as Im sure everyone on VN would. 9 wins is big for a program that just had that...
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How in demand is a guy that's improved by four wins in three years? Name one job that would actually be better than this one that's going to consider him?
 
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#387
#387
VOLINVONORE said:
He was hired to reestablish our football program which he is doing. If there had been NO progress, then I may agree with part of what you are saying. What he has accomplished so far deserves a raise and an extension. There is no reason to give the impression to recruits and the other coaches in the SEC that we are not better than we have been in 8-10 years He has earned a raise and an extension which will result in continued recruiting successes and the development of quality depth as well as more wins in the SEC.
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He got an extension and they are going to be forced to hype next season regardless. Recruits don't need to see another extension at this point. He's not even very highly ranked on the hot seat rankings
 
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#388
#388
volfanbill said:
How in demand is a guy that's improved by four wins in three years? Name one job that would actually be better than this one that's going to consider him?
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Yeah just like he turned Michigan down so they settled for their #2 choice in Harbaugh. I can't believe there are people stupid enough to believe that. Or that would even believe he would be in their top 5 considerations last year. He would be great at Maryland, Purdue, Illinois, Virginia Tech. That's about the level he should be on IMO.
 
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#389
#389
I do give credit to Bluetic and volinvaolnore simply because they actually presented an argument about his "accomplishments" rather than bash someone that hasn't joined the #fightingbutches
 
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#391
#391
Any school wanting to hire CBJ away from UT this year would need to at least match his $3.7M annual gross compensation PLUS pay UT a $4M buyout. No school is going to cough up almost $8M for a coach that will finish midpack in the SEC. CBJ is going nowhere this year.

If he wants more money, he can win out convincingly and hope UT's propensity to travel well and spend freely scores us a spot in the Outback bowl. He'll get an extra $100K for that-- and he'll deserve it.
 
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#392
#392
i just decided to actually research some after looking at almost the same discussion on a different thread, so i thought this would be applicable. i don't necessarily think butch needs an extension this offseason either. but for all you who think the big shot coaches (for this example saban and jim harbaugh) just won instantly, that simply isn't the case.

harbaugh was at stanford for all of 4 years and the first two he went 4-8 then 5-7. then he went 8-5 with a loss in the sun bowl to oklahoma. so if we can win out, butch will be doing ahead of pace than ol jim at stanford..... just saying...

dont act like saban was instant success. he was actually worse and slower to win. his first 4 seasons at MSU went like this: 6-6, 6-5, 7-5, 6-6 with his 5th season finally getting to 9-2 before going to a pretty full cupboard in LSU and having quicker success. its all about getting the players. this should show more how bad of shape dools left this place. even the best coaches need players.
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#393
#393
Brasszilla said:
i just decided to actually research some after looking at almost the same discussion on a different thread, so i thought this would be applicable. i don't necessarily think butch needs an extension this offseason either. but for all you who think the big shot coaches (for this example saban and jim harbaugh) just won instantly, that simply isn't the case.
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The Stanford program Harbaguh inherited is so far from being comparable that it's insulting to try. A better comparison for Saban would be his tenure at LSU.
 
#394
#394
tvolsfan said:
The Stanford program Harbaguh inherited is so far from being comparable that it's insulting to try. A better comparison for Saban would be his tenure at LSU.
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Yeah Stanford was 1-11 the year prior to Harbaugh with losses to San Jose State and Navy. His first year, while not that successful, he beat USC when they were #2 in the country. That would be like Butch taking over straight from Dooley and beating Bama year one.
 
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#395
#395
Jim Harbaugh made $1.25M annually for taking Stanford from a 1-11 team to #4 in the country.

CBJ will make $3.7M minimum this year for taking UT from 5-7 to 8-4 (assuming a win-out), unranked to unranked. By any standard, in any conference, CBJ is well-compensated commensurate to performance. Let it ride and see what he can do next year.
 
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#396
#396
volfanbill said:
How in demand is a guy that's improved by four wins in three years? Name one job that would actually be better than this one that's going to consider him?
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Well, given that as a measure of the level of improvement, would you have felt the same way after 1995, if there had been a discussion about giving Fulmer a raise? At that point, he had records of 10 - 2, 8 - 4 and 11 - 1 in his 3 seasons following a 9 - 3 season under Majors. As we know now, he was just 3 years from a national championship.

Butch Jones took over a program that had just completed it's second straight 5 - 7 season. A program almost completely devoid of talent (with the exception of the OL he inherited). He started with a 5 - 7 season that included an upset win over a top 15 team, an overtime loss to Georgia and a crushing late season loss to Vandy that could have made us bowl eligible. Year two saw us bowl eligible and a winning season. Now we have 2 games left in the regular season, we are already bowl eligible and we have a win over Georgia and 3 losses to teams in the top 8 by a combined 5 points, not counting OT scores.

For my bucks, I think Jones' accomplishments may be better than Fulmer's. If Hart and the school decide to give Butch a raise and extension, I would say he has earned it.
 
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#397
#397
Bluetic said:
If he wins out, you give him the raise or whatever. That helps him sell stability to recruits and maybe he pulls in another great class. I'm not opposed to the "process", I would be opposed to mediocrity defined as progress. 9 wins? Give it to him...GBO!
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His contract runs thru 2020. That's stable enough
 
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#398
#398
"A crushing loss to Vandy."

Meanwhile Fulmer was riding Majors' success (that he helped build mind you) and competing for the SEC.

See the difference?
 
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#399
#399
tvolsfan said:
The Stanford program Harbaguh inherited is so far from being comparable that it's insulting to try. A better comparison for Saban would be his tenure at LSU.
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dude YOU brought up harbaugh being able to turn michigan around quicker, implying that he is instant success. i was merely providing factual, numerical evidence that he wasn't any more successful in his first 3 years than butch. don't be insulted by the comparison you created
 
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