Butch & Dabo: Butch Can Win a Championship, but He Needs Changes

[DiderotsGhost]

This Time it's Different

I've had a few days to reflect upon the latest loss. We've had some bad losses in the Butch Jones years, but these past two are different. When we got blown away by Oregon in 2013, that was because Butch inherited Dooley's mess. When Auburn clobbered us that same year, it was because of a very slow defense that Butch couldn't have possibly improved much in Year #1. When Oklahoma destroyed us in 2014, it was because a porous offensive line that sucked largely because Dooley never bothered to recruit O-linemen during his last two seasons. Even the losses to Florida weren't so bad when you considered that Florida had much more talent than us in 2014 and 2015.

These last two losses are different to me.

It's not that Alabama beat us. Alabama may be the best team in the country right now; it may even be one of the best of all-time. We can't seriously expect Butch to win them all, but it's not "the loss," but how we lost that disturbed me. Our offense was absolutely pathetic. Take out a defensive turnover and our offense really only generated 3 points by itself in that game and that’s inexcusable with the immense talent we have.

Now we have the SC game. Make no mistake about it: this is a bad South Carolina team. This is the first time Butch has lost to a truly bad team. I can't view this along the same lines as earlier losses. It was an embarrassment.

Dabo Swinney’s Championship Culture

It’s easy to forget that Dabo Swinney at Clemson experienced some similar struggles to Butch in his early years. The reason I find the comparison to Dabo so apt is that Butch and Dabo have very similar philosophies and leadership styles.

Dabo Swinney got the Clemson job not because he was perceived to be the best candidate, but because no other big names wanted the job. He took over for Tommy Bowden mid-season in 2008 and did a good, but not spectacular job. In his 3rd Season, Dabo went 6-7 and was right back on the hot-seat. The Clemson faithful wanted him gone. The team particularly struggled on offense: 7 points versus South Carolina, 13 vs Florida State, 10 vs Boston College.

After the 2010 disappointment, Dabo Swinney made a change in 2011 and brought in Chad Morris as the new Offensive Coordinator. Chad Morris had engineered a huge turnaround at Tulsa the season before and Dabo hoped he could do the same at Clemson. The offense improved almost immediately. Clemson racked up over 50 points versus North Carolina and Maryland. Hung 35 on Florida State, 38 on Auburn, and another 38 against Virginia Tech in the ACC Championship Game. With Chad Morris, Clemson was suddenly much more competitive in the ACC.

In spite of this, Dabo was still on the hot seat at the end of 2011 because of a horrendous loss to West Virginia in the Orange Bowl. WVU beat Clemson 70 – 33 and for those who watched that game, you may remember that it wasn’t even that close. At one point during the 3rd Quarter, the score was 63 - 20 and WVU decided to hit the brakes with the game well in hand at that point. Otherwise, WVU may have hung 100 on Clemson.

Clemson’s defense was pathetic; they might as well have stood over on the sidelines and let WVU walk into the endzone unopposed every drive. It was one of the ugliest BCS Bowl games I can remember watching and it was clear that Clemson couldn't contend without a better defense.

In 2012, Kevin Steele was replaced with Brent Venables as DC. The defense slowly improved over the next few seasons. Since that point in time, Clemson is 54 – 8, with 2 Orange Bowl victories, and a National Championship Game appearance.

Looking back, it’s clear that Dabo Swinney was the right hire for Clemson, but he needed to bring in top coordinators before he turned Clemson into a top team. Imagine if Dabo had been fired in 2010 or 2011 when he was on the hot seat ... Clemson wouldn't be among the nation's elite teams today if that had happened.

Butch is Our Guy, but Offense is a Problem

When you look at what Butch has done in a short period of time in Knoxville, it’s impressive. Like Dabo Swinney, Butch has been an excellent recruiter and program builder. Like Dabo, Butch has instilled a healthy culture. Butch also managed to turn a program that had become an SEC cellar dweller into an SEC East contender. It’s clear, however, that something is missing.

Watching the games this year, our defense has struggled at times, but has been impressive more often than not. When we’ve struggled, it’s often been because of injuries to key players such as Cam Sutton, Darrin Kirkland Jr, and Jalen Reeves-Maybin. Now, we’re starting to see D-line injuries pile up as well. Yet our defense has never really been the weak link.

The offense, on the other hand, has been horrendous outside of a couple of brilliant stretches. We looked great during the 2nd Half of the Florida game. We looked impressive versus Texas A&M. But we’ve also looked hopelessly lost for much of the season. App State and Alabama were our worst moments, but we struggled immensely versus Ohio and South Carolina, as well.

Some have blamed injuries, but I think that's a stretch. We've never lost key skill players for any extended period of time on offense. We've had some O-line injuries, but every team in America has to deal with that.

Some have blamed "execution" and I agree that execution has been poor at times. We've had too many fumbles, too many interceptions, too many dropped passes, and too many penalties. Yet, at some point, when these execution mistakes become a recurring theme, you have to start looking at the leadership. Sure, the Offensive Coordinator can't stop every errant pass or dropped ball, but when those mistakes occur week-in and week-out, it's a pattern.

We Need New Offensive Leadership

I don’t think it’s fair to blame DeBord for all of our problems, but at the same time, we know we have problems, and it’s crystal clear that DeBord is not “THE SOLUTION”. Similar to how Clemson had to bring in a new OC in 2011 and a new DC in 2012, I think we’re going to need to make a similar move; only in reverse. We brought in Bob Shoop as DC last year; now it’s time to bring in a top-notch OC.

There’s too much talent on this offense to waste away with these dreadful performances. We’ve got to stop blaming injuries, because our injuries on offense are really nothing more than “run of the mill”. We have not lost our starting QB, any of our best WRs, and we’ve only lost our RBs for short periods of time.

We have the talent to compete for an SEC title and be a top 10 team nationally. We can't continue to squander it with lackluster coaching.

Ch-Ch-Changes

Am I 100% convinced that Butch is the answer here? No, but I have a lot of faith in him. I’ve seen enough to know that he can succeed, and I see a lot of similarities with Dabo Swinney’s early struggles at Clemson. Butch is a tireless program builder just like Dabo. Butch has instilled a winning culture just like Dabo. I think if Butch can find a top notch OC like Dabo did in 2011 when he hired Chad Morris, we can compete with college football’s elite.

We have all the other ingredients in place already. We just need an OC that can guide this offense to success.


That’s my 50 cents and I realize it's not worth much.


GO BIG ORANGE!

 

[Volsfaninva917]

Butch isn't our guy, he was never the guy. He was just the best choice at the time and Tennessee didn't want to go to prom solo.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

I will blame Butch if he trots out Josh Dobbs again at QB.

 

[CoaxialOrange]

I wouldn't recommend watching this Saturday then

 

[BruceInLouisville]

Assuming that Butch can also deal with the morale issues that are reported, then I think your analysis is correct.

There's a lot of over-reacting right now, and overlooking the good work Butch has done to this point. Your post provides some good perspective. Thanks.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

The cold hard fact is until Saban leaves Alabama, there will be no championships at Tennessee.

 

[valoisvol]

The offense, on the other hand, has been horrendous outside of a couple of brilliant stretches.

Just calling it like I see it. We need a QB who can throw. When a baseball pitcher makes too many mistakes, he gets pulled.

Everybody here thinking our QB would win the Heisman, he won't even be drafted.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

This Time it's Different

I've had a few days to reflect upon the latest loss. We've had some bad losses in the Butch Jones years, but these past two are different. When we got blown away by Oregon in 2013, that was because Butch inherited Dooley's mess. When Auburn clobbered us that same year, it was because of a very slow defense that Butch couldn't have possibly improved much in Year #1. When Oklahoma destroyed us in 2014, it was because a porous offensive line that sucked largely because Dooley never bothered to recruit O-linemen during his last two seasons. Even the losses to Florida weren't so bad when you considered that Florida had much more talent than us in 2014 and 2015.

These last two losses are different to me.

It's not that Alabama beat us. Alabama may be the best team in the country right now; it may even be one of the best of all-time. We can't seriously expect Butch to win them all, but it's not "the" loss, but how we lost that disturbed me. Our offense was absolutely pathetic in spite of immense talent. Take out a defensive turnover and our offense really only generated 3 points by itself in that game and that’s inexcusable with the immense talent we have.

Now we have the SC game. Make no mistake about it: this is a bad South Carolina team. This is the first time Butch has lost to a truly bad team. I can't view this along the same lines as earlier losses. It was an embarrassment.

Dabo Swinney’s Championship Culture

It’s easy to forget that Dabo Swinney at Clemson experienced some similar struggles to Butch in his early years. The reason I find the comparison to Dabo so apt is that Butch and Dabo have very similar philosophies and leadership styles.

Dabo Swinney got the Clemson job not because he was perceived to be the best candidate, but because no other big names wanted the job. He took over for Tommy Bowden mid-season in 2008 and did a good, but not spectacular job. In his 3rd Season, Dabo went 6-7 and was right back on the hot-seat. The Clemson faithful wanted him gone. The team particularly struggled on offense: 7 points versus South Carolina, 13 vs Florida State, 10 vs Boston College.

After the 2010 disappointment, Dabo Swinney made a change in 2011 and brought in Chad Morris as the new Offensive Coordinator. Chad Morris had engineered a huge turnaround at Tulsa the season before and Dabo hoped he could do the same at Clemson. The offense improved almost immediately. Clemson racked up over 50 points versus North Carolina and Maryland. Hung 35 on Florida State, 38 on Auburn, and another 38 against Virginia Tech in the ACC Championship Game. With Chad Morris, Clemson was suddenly much more competitive in the ACC.

In spite of this, Dabo was still on the hot seat at the end of 2011 because of a horrendous loss to West Virginia in the Orange Bowl. WVU beat Clemson 70 – 33 and for those who watched that game, you may remember that it wasn’t even that close. At one point during the 3rd Quarter, the score was 63 - 20 and WVU decided to hit the brakes with the game well in hand at that point. Otherwise, WVU may have hung 100 on Clemson.

Clemson’s defense was pathetic; they might as well have stood over on the sidelines and let WVU walk into the endzone unopposed every drive. It was one of the ugliest BCS Bowl games I can remember watching and it was clear that Clemson couldn't contend without a better defense.

In 2012, Kevin Steele was replaced with Brent Venables as DC. The defense slowly improved over the next few seasons. Since that point in time, Clemson is 54 – 8, with 2 Orange Bowl victories, and a National Championship Game appearance.

Looking back, it’s clear that Dabo Swinney was the right hire for Clemson, but he needed to bring in top coordinators before he turned Clemson into a top team.

Butch is Our Guy, but Offense is a Problem

When you look at what Butch has done in a short period of time in Knoxville, it’s impressive. Like Dabo Swinney, Butch has been an excellent recruiter and program builder. Like Dabo, Butch has instilled a healthy culture. Butch also managed to turn a program that had become an SEC cellar dweller into an SEC East contender. It’s clear, however, that something is missing.

Watching the games this year, our defense has struggled at times, but has been impressive more often than not. When we’ve struggled, it’s often been because of injuries to key players such as Cam Sutton, Darrin Kirkland Jr, and Jalen Reeves-Maybin. Now, we’re starting to see D-line injuries pile up as well. Yet our defense has never really been the weak link.

The offense, on the other hand, has been horrendous outside of a couple of brilliant stretches. We looked great during the 2nd Half of the Florida game. We looked impressive versus Texas A&M. And we looked very good during parts of the Virginia Tech and Georgia games. But we’ve also looked hopelessly lost for much of the season. App State and Alabama were our worst moments, but we struggled immensely versus Ohio and South Carolina, as well.

Some have blamed injuries, but I think that's a stretch. We've never lost key skill players for any long period of time. We've had some O-line injuries, but every team in America has to deal with that.

Some have blamed "execution" and I agree that execution has been poor at times. We've had too many fumbles, too many interceptions, too many dropped passes, and too many penalties. Yet, at some point, when these execution mistakes become a recrurring theme, you have to start looking at the leadership. Sure, the Offensive Coordinator can't stop every errant pass or dropped ball, but when those mistakes occur week-in and week-out, it's a pattern.

We Need New Offensive Leadership

I don’t think it’s fair to blame DeBord for all of our problems, but at the same time, we know we have problems, and it’s crystal clear that DeBord is not “THE SOLUTION”. Similar to how Clemson had to bring in a new OC in 2011 and a new DC in 2012, I think we’re going to need to make a similar move; only in reverse. We brought in Bob Shoop as DC last year; now it’s time to bring in a top-notch OC.

There’s too much talent on this offense to waste away with these dreadful performances. We’ve got to stop blaming injuries, because our injuries on offense are really nothing more than “run of the mill”. We have not lost our starting QB, any of our best WRs, and we’ve only lost our RBs for short periods of time.

We have the talent to compete for an SEC title and be a top 10 team nationally. We can't continue to squander it with lackluster coaching.

Ch-Ch-Changes

Am I 100% convinced that Butch is the answer here? No, but I have a lot of faith in him. I’ve seen enough to know that he can succeed, and I see a lot of similarities with Dabo Swinney’s early struggles at Clemson. Butch is a tireless program builder just like Dabo. Butch has instilled a winning culture just like Dabo. I think if Butch can find a top notch OC like Dabo did in 2011 when he hired Chad Morris, we can compete with college football’s elite.

We have all the other ingredients in place already. We just need an OC that can guide this offense to success.


That’s my 50 cents and I realize it's not worth much.


GO BIG ORANGE!

I will add my 50 cents to your post. I realize that every sports board has its haters who either know very little about football except that a touchdown is worth 6 points, a field goal is worth 3 points, and a safety is worth 2 points. Many are a part of the “new generation” which demands instant gratification and have no ability to recogonize the work and patience required to obtain our goals and that there are roadblocks along the path to success.

I agree with your comparison of Jones and Swinney. I will also remind posters that Saban was not an instant success and required a few years to become the coach we hate to play but respect his success. We have wittinessed the pitfalls of replacing football and basketball coaches before they have had the opportunity to establish the an adequate base of coaches and talent on which to produce championship athletic Programs. If Majors had not already demonstrated he could develop a winning program, I believe he would have not survived as our coach in today's atmosphere. The University, the fans, the students, and the players deserve to have to opportunity to build on the tremendous improvements we have seen under coach Jones and not destroy the base which is being built.

We have come too far to throw the baby out with the bath water and try to build a new program when we are well on our way to building the football program we want and need. If Jones follows the road which some previous coaches have traveled by not reviewing the components of his staff and offensive and defensive systems, then maybe his time at Tennessee will be numbered. I know that coach Jones wants to build a Championship program at Tennessee and that every loss hurts him as much as it does even our most passionate fans. I also know that a few of the most negative posters are NOT Tennessee fans and are doing everything they can to create an atmosphere which encourages the less mature fans to join them in trying to disrupt our progress in rebuilding our football program.

There will be a thorough review of what needs to be changed and what can be improved to build our program to a Championship level. Now is NOT the time to destroy the progress already made unless we are willing to start over attempt and fail again in the next 5 years. I have 5 generations of family who have attended the University of Tennessee. In my 78 years of being a Tennessee fan, I do not want to see My University continue to pull the trigger when the target is in sight.

I encourage the University to quickly make two very important decisions which would add stability to our Athletic Program. Hire the replacements of Dr. Cheek and Mr. Hart. Both of these positions need to be filled before any decision is made in our Athletic Program.

 

[ArmchairQB]

We Need New Offensive Leadership

This all day long. I seem to remember hearing commentators sometime in the last couple games talking about how our hurry-up really isn't one, and how we're using play clock more often than not. I want to start there.

We pretty consistently lose the time of possession battle, regardless of how often we're snapping it or how many plays we're running. We've had more of the ball against Florida and A&M, and less of it against everyone else - to the tune now of our opponents have had the ball about a half hour more than we have, over eight games. I want an offense with some elements of ball control. Put really overly simply, just as much as I want yards and points I want our defense to be less tired and their defense to be more tired.

The possibility of that happening begins and ends with the line. Now, last year, we ran for about a hojillion yards behind good run blocking. Call it a hunch, but I'm thinking maybe that happened behind guys who had nailed down their fundamentals while Harry Hiestand was still here. With Notre Dame having the season they're having, I would be getting right in Hiestand's ear mentioning the likelihood that Brian Kelly is going to be job hunting soon and wouldn't he like to come coach some big monster SEC linemen again.

As far as a coordinator? Why not Tee Martin? There's some poetic symmetry there. They poach Kiffin, we poach Martin. USC's offense has looked pretty impressive while he's been there. Martin is one of the best recruiters in the country. And I just have this feeling like you get David Blackburn in there at AD, tell the boosters that the road to titles starts with a couple million more to put in the *real* best coaching staff in America, and you go tell Martin that momma's calling. And like Bear Bryant said once, "When Momma calls, you just have to come runnin'."

Anyway, just a couple random thoughts. What does anyone else think is the answer? Because it sure does seem like we have some big question marks hanging around out there.

 

[VolsRule]

can the other 13 sec coaches each kick in 2 million, send it to nick, and beg him to retire or go to the nfl?? for a $26 million inducement, he will be ready to go!

 

[BeardedVol]

Butch's offense last year wouldn't have been what it was if Dobbs wasn't a scrambler. Forget what this offense looked like with Worely in there? Go back and watch the busted plays that Dobbs kept from being negative or got yards on in spite of the bad playcalling and terrible Oline play.

This offense has never really worked in the SEC, it's just been shored up by a scrambling QB, and every team we played this year was ready for it. It will not be any better next year, and in fact, could be much worse.

 

[Jeepkuntry]

The offense, on the other hand, has been horrendous outside of a couple of brilliant stretches.

Just calling it like I see it. We need a QB who can throw. When a baseball pitcher makes too many mistakes, he gets pulled.

Everybody here thinking our QB would win the Heisman, he won't even be drafted.

I must have missed that thread. Dobbs has always been a streaky QB. Load the box, get him rattled, and it's been game over since day 1.

 

[Wylo]

Butch is garbage on Saturday. That has always been the case. Butch has a garbage offense. Butch is not the guy. He'll be gone soon enough.

 

[SOUTHGAVOL]

This Time it's Different

I've had a few days to reflect upon the latest loss. We've had some bad losses in the Butch Jones years, but these past two are different. When we got blown away by Oregon in 2013, that was because Butch inherited Dooley's mess. When Auburn clobbered us that same year, it was because of a very slow defense that Butch couldn't have possibly improved much in Year #1. When Oklahoma destroyed us in 2014, it was because a porous offensive line that sucked largely because Dooley never bothered to recruit O-linemen during his last two seasons. Even the losses to Florida weren't so bad when you considered that Florida had much more talent than us in 2014 and 2015.

These last two losses are different to me.

It's not that Alabama beat us. Alabama may be the best team in the country right now; it may even be one of the best of all-time. We can't seriously expect Butch to win them all, but it's not "the" loss, but how we lost that disturbed me. Our offense was absolutely pathetic in spite of immense talent. Take out a defensive turnover and our offense really only generated 3 points by itself in that game and that’s inexcusable with the immense talent we have.

Now we have the SC game. Make no mistake about it: this is a bad South Carolina team. This is the first time Butch has lost to a truly bad team. I can't view this along the same lines as earlier losses. It was an embarrassment.

Dabo Swinney’s Championship Culture

It’s easy to forget that Dabo Swinney at Clemson experienced some similar struggles to Butch in his early years. The reason I find the comparison to Dabo so apt is that Butch and Dabo have very similar philosophies and leadership styles.

Dabo Swinney got the Clemson job not because he was perceived to be the best candidate, but because no other big names wanted the job. He took over for Tommy Bowden mid-season in 2008 and did a good, but not spectacular job. In his 3rd Season, Dabo went 6-7 and was right back on the hot-seat. The Clemson faithful wanted him gone. The team particularly struggled on offense: 7 points versus South Carolina, 13 vs Florida State, 10 vs Boston College.

After the 2010 disappointment, Dabo Swinney made a change in 2011 and brought in Chad Morris as the new Offensive Coordinator. Chad Morris had engineered a huge turnaround at Tulsa the season before and Dabo hoped he could do the same at Clemson. The offense improved almost immediately. Clemson racked up over 50 points versus North Carolina and Maryland. Hung 35 on Florida State, 38 on Auburn, and another 38 against Virginia Tech in the ACC Championship Game. With Chad Morris, Clemson was suddenly much more competitive in the ACC.

In spite of this, Dabo was still on the hot seat at the end of 2011 because of a horrendous loss to West Virginia in the Orange Bowl. WVU beat Clemson 70 – 33 and for those who watched that game, you may remember that it wasn’t even that close. At one point during the 3rd Quarter, the score was 63 - 20 and WVU decided to hit the brakes with the game well in hand at that point. Otherwise, WVU may have hung 100 on Clemson.

Clemson’s defense was pathetic; they might as well have stood over on the sidelines and let WVU walk into the endzone unopposed every drive. It was one of the ugliest BCS Bowl games I can remember watching and it was clear that Clemson couldn't contend without a better defense.

In 2012, Kevin Steele was replaced with Brent Venables as DC. The defense slowly improved over the next few seasons. Since that point in time, Clemson is 54 – 8, with 2 Orange Bowl victories, and a National Championship Game appearance.

Looking back, it’s clear that Dabo Swinney was the right hire for Clemson, but he needed to bring in top coordinators before he turned Clemson into a top team.

Butch is Our Guy, but Offense is a Problem

When you look at what Butch has done in a short period of time in Knoxville, it’s impressive. Like Dabo Swinney, Butch has been an excellent recruiter and program builder. Like Dabo, Butch has instilled a healthy culture. Butch also managed to turn a program that had become an SEC cellar dweller into an SEC East contender. It’s clear, however, that something is missing.

Watching the games this year, our defense has struggled at times, but has been impressive more often than not. When we’ve struggled, it’s often been because of injuries to key players such as Cam Sutton, Darrin Kirkland Jr, and Jalen Reeves-Maybin. Now, we’re starting to see D-line injuries pile up as well. Yet our defense has never really been the weak link.

The offense, on the other hand, has been horrendous outside of a couple of brilliant stretches. We looked great during the 2nd Half of the Florida game. We looked impressive versus Texas A&M. And we looked very good during parts of the Virginia Tech and Georgia games. But we’ve also looked hopelessly lost for much of the season. App State and Alabama were our worst moments, but we struggled immensely versus Ohio and South Carolina, as well.

Some have blamed injuries, but I think that's a stretch. We've never lost key skill players for any long period of time. We've had some O-line injuries, but every team in America has to deal with that.

Some have blamed "execution" and I agree that execution has been poor at times. We've had too many fumbles, too many interceptions, too many dropped passes, and too many penalties. Yet, at some point, when these execution mistakes become a recrurring theme, you have to start looking at the leadership. Sure, the Offensive Coordinator can't stop every errant pass or dropped ball, but when those mistakes occur week-in and week-out, it's a pattern.

We Need New Offensive Leadership

I don’t think it’s fair to blame DeBord for all of our problems, but at the same time, we know we have problems, and it’s crystal clear that DeBord is not “THE SOLUTION”. Similar to how Clemson had to bring in a new OC in 2011 and a new DC in 2012, I think we’re going to need to make a similar move; only in reverse. We brought in Bob Shoop as DC last year; now it’s time to bring in a top-notch OC.

There’s too much talent on this offense to waste away with these dreadful performances. We’ve got to stop blaming injuries, because our injuries on offense are really nothing more than “run of the mill”. We have not lost our starting QB, any of our best WRs, and we’ve only lost our RBs for short periods of time.

We have the talent to compete for an SEC title and be a top 10 team nationally. We can't continue to squander it with lackluster coaching.

Ch-Ch-Changes

Am I 100% convinced that Butch is the answer here? No, but I have a lot of faith in him. I’ve seen enough to know that he can succeed, and I see a lot of similarities with Dabo Swinney’s early struggles at Clemson. Butch is a tireless program builder just like Dabo. Butch has instilled a winning culture just like Dabo. I think if Butch can find a top notch OC like Dabo did in 2011 when he hired Chad Morris, we can compete with college football’s elite.

We have all the other ingredients in place already. We just need an OC that can guide this offense to success.


That’s my 50 cents and I realize it's not worth much.


GO BIG ORANGE!

The best post I have read in the last 4 weeks! Very level headed and sensible post. Great read and I agree with this 110%.
Thank you!

 

[willhamc65]

Great points.. I think people do need to pump the brakes on firing Butch. Yes, it was a bad loss but he has improved our record every year... and because of that he is not going to get fired unless we lose all of our games going forward.

I will say that I don't have faith in us hiring a new OC. DeBord is Butch's friend/mentor. To him, its not that simple.

 

[lilesrt]

Butch isn't our guy, he was never the guy. He was just the best choice at the time and Tennessee didn't want to go to prom solo.

Could you imagine if Dave would have hired Charlie Strong?? Yikes!

 

[RollerVol]

Great points.. I think people do need to pump the brakes on firing Butch. Yes, it was a bad loss but he has improved our record every year... and because of that he is not going to get fired unless we lose all of our games going forward.

I will say that I don't have faith in us hiring a new OC. DeBord is Butch's friend/mentor. To him, its not that simple.

yeah, it never is, and Butch will probably be around for another year or two, at least, but, IMHO, he's not completely stupid...firing Coach Debord will give him more time in the fans/administration's mind, and if he can't see his offense is not working, then he has bigger mental problems than originally thought...:twocents::biggrin:

GO VOLS!

 

[DiderotsGhost]

I agree with your comparison of Jones and Swinney. I will also remind posters that Saban was not an instant success and required a few years to become the coach we hate to play but respect his success. We have wittinessed the pitfalls of replacing football and basketball coaches before they have had the opportunity to establish the an adequate base of coaches and talent on which to produce championship athletic Programs. If Majors had not already demonstrated he could develop a winning program, I believe he would have not survived as our coach in today's atmosphere. The University, the fans, the students, and the players deserve to have to opportunity to build on the tremendous improvements we have seen under coach Jones and not destroy the base which is being built.

Excellent post, Volinvonore.

The comparison to Johnny Majors is certainly apt, too. Majors struggled early on, but slowly built up what I think could rightly be called "the best staff in America." Without all those great coaches, we don't have our huge run of success in the 1990s or a national title in 1998.

Butch has done so many things right. This isn't like the Dooley years where the program was falling further and further behind every season. Every thing about this program has gotten better with each year under Butch. Our roster is absolutely loaded. We have such an abundance of highly recruited QBs, it's almost absurd. The only thing UT is missing is the right coaches on the offensive side of the ball. If Butch can recognize that and get the right people in place, I honestly believe we can be elite.

We're so close right now.

 

[OakRidgeVol]

The fact is you can look at any coach not named Harbaugh, Saban, or Meyer and see the difference made by upgrades at assistant coaching positions. Butch has a huge positives in his favor:

He can recruit really well. He can flip prospects and bring real talent in. The more success they've had, the bigger recruits he has brought in.

This is half the reason Saban is so successful, he can point to success and playing for a winner. Before the TAMU game there was talk TN was an actual contender. Now we can't even defend South Carolina. Paul Chryst loses his DC to LSU and still keeps Michigan and Ohio St. under 20 points with arguably less pure talent than TN has. Ridiculous.

You are correct though, the script flipped when Dabo brought in real assistants. Butch sucked it up and ditched Jancek for a legit DC, but still insists on sticking with the swimming coach at OC. He probably could have lured Noel Mazzone from UCLA, maybe Steve Sarkisian, or some other legit OC looking for a stepping stone.

Butch has to go forward with his staff, otherwise the team will perpetually be stuck going to the Gator Bowl. Not good enough when you're talking about a historically successful SEC program.

 

[BillyD]

I have thought Butch has done a good job changing the culture on Rocky Top so far (I am assuming all the rumors since the SC game are just rumors/over-reactions until proven otherwise). We will find out if Jones is stubborn or serious this off season. I think Butch is a good head coach but a terrible offensive coordinator. Assuming he lets go of the Offense and actually hires a quality OC that is allowed to use a different formation than shotgun he will be successful in Knoxville. If Butch keeps Debord or hires another yes man OC to keep his same busted offense, he is done sooner rather than later. He did go out and hire Shoop this last off-season so there is hope.

 

[savannahfan]

This all day long. I seem to remember hearing commentators sometime in the last couple games talking about how our hurry-up really isn't one, and how we're using play clock more often than not. I want to start there.

We pretty consistently lose the time of possession battle, regardless of how often we're snapping it or how many plays we're running. We've had more of the ball against Florida and A&M, and less of it against everyone else - to the tune now of our opponents have had the ball about a half hour more than we have, over eight games. I want an offense with some elements of ball control. Put really overly simply, just as much as I want yards and points I want our defense to be less tired and their defense to be more tired.

The possibility of that happening begins and ends with the line. Now, last year, we ran for about a hojillion yards behind good run blocking. Call it a hunch, but I'm thinking maybe that happened behind guys who had nailed down their fundamentals while Harry Hiestand was still here. With Notre Dame having the season they're having, I would be getting right in Hiestand's ear mentioning the likelihood that Brian Kelly is going to be job hunting soon and wouldn't he like to come coach some big monster SEC linemen again.

As far as a coordinator? Why not Tee Martin? There's some poetic symmetry there. They poach Kiffin, we poach Martin. USC's offense has looked pretty impressive while he's been there. Martin is one of the best recruiters in the country. And I just have this feeling like you get David Blackburn in there at AD, tell the boosters that the road to titles starts with a couple million more to put in the *real* best coaching staff in America, and you go tell Martin that momma's calling. And like Bear Bryant said once, "When Momma calls, you just have to come runnin'."

Anyway, just a couple random thoughts. What does anyone else think is the answer? Because it sure does seem like we have some big question marks hanging around out there.

Tee's problem with coming "home" seems to not be all him. Wife. Maybe rest of family really likes west coast life style. Or, maybe Tee has seen "life" on the unsettled hill from top adm. to coaching and just doesn't think it's worth it to come "home".

 

[QuickSmurf]

It took Dabo years

 

[savannahfan]

I have thought Butch has done a good job changing the culture on Rocky Top so far (I am assuming all the rumors since the SC game are just rumors/over-reactions until proven otherwise). We will find out if Jones is stubborn or serious this off season. I think Butch is a good head coach but a terrible offensive coordinator. Assuming he lets go of the Offense and actually hires a quality OC that is allowed to use a different formation than shotgun he will be successful in Knoxville. If Butch keeps Debord or hires another yes man OC to keep his same busted offense, he is done sooner rather than later. He did go out and hire Shoop this last off-season so there is hope.

Again, look at LSU. Coach that was "too big" to change, and found out the hard way. When the "bosses" get enough you find out who is "big".

 

[hohenfelsvol]

Only way Butch wins a championship is if he joins one of the top 4 teams as an assistant.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

I will add my 50 cents to your post. I realize that every sports board has its haters who either know very little about football except that a touchdown is worth 6 points, a field goal is worth 3 points, and a safety is worth 2 points. Many are a part of the “new generation” which demands instant gratification and have no ability to recogonize the work and patience required to obtain our goals and that there are roadblocks along the path to success.

I agree with your comparison of Jones and Swinney. I will also remind posters that Saban was not an instant success and required a few years to become the coach we hate to play but respect his success. We have wittinessed the pitfalls of replacing football and basketball coaches before they have had the opportunity to establish the an adequate base of coaches and talent on which to produce championship athletic Programs. If Majors had not already demonstrated he could develop a winning program, I believe he would have not survived as our coach in today's atmosphere. The University, the fans, the students, and the players deserve to have to opportunity to build on the tremendous improvements we have seen under coach Jones and not destroy the base which is being built.

We have come too far to throw the baby out with the bath water and try to build a new program when we are well on our way to building the football program we want and need. If Jones follows the road which some previous coaches have traveled by not reviewing the components of his staff and offensive and defensive systems, then maybe his time at Tennessee will be numbered. I know that coach Jones wants to build a Championship program at Tennessee and that every loss hurts him as much as it does even our most passionate fans. I also know that a few of the most negative posters are NOT Tennessee fans and are doing everything they can to create an atmosphere which encourages the less mature fans to join them in trying to disrupt our progress in rebuilding our football program.

There will be a thorough review of what needs to be changed and what can be improved to build our program to a Championship level. Now is NOT the time to destroy the progress already made unless we are willing to start over attempt and fail again in the next 5 years. I have 5 generations of family who have attended the University of Tennessee. In my 78 years of being a Tennessee fan, I do not want to see My University continue to pull the trigger when the target is in sight.

I encourage the University to quickly make two very important decisions which would add stability to our Athletic Program. Hire the replacements of Dr. Cheek and Mr. Hart. Bothe of these positions need to be filled before any decision is made in our Athletic Program.

This just isn't true. Saban was 6-6 his first season at Alabama and then proceeded to win the National Championship the very next year. Now, Saban is going to go down in history as one of the best CFB coaches of all time, so not everyone is going to do that.

But at some point a picture is painted. This is now Year 4 and we will be going 9-3 at best. We have recruited more talent to this program than at any point in the past 10-12 years. There are CLEAR problems in the coaching philosophy and gameplans. We have a terrible OC who calls the most vanilla and boring plays. If this was year 2 or maybe even 3 I would be more inclined to believe Butch could make some changes and adjustments to possibly hit a stride. But after 4 years, I think we have enough proof that he is too stubborn to make any changes. It's his way or the highway.