Burrell is the new Coleman?

#51
#51
sjt18 said:
Coaches always want to do their best to play the right guys. Agreed. Fan talk/criticism comes with the territory. Odd that you would suggest it didn't on a forum like this.

I believe Heupel went through exactly the right process to choose his starting QB last year... and ended up with the wrong guy. It happens... and may be happening again.

Not being a smart aleck... but if the conversation about that possibility offends you then don't participate. Neither of us are being unfair or hateful toward Burrell. He isn't playing well. Other teams are picking on him because he can't seem to stick on his man and seems to react slowly in zone.
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Yes, it's allowed here but some boards don't allow it or in the past they haven't. I just don't see how it does anybody any good.
 
#53
#53
marcusluvsvols said:
Right? Burrell is the new Justin Coleman?

For those who don't remember, Coleman was an absolute liability in coverage. He was torched early and often...as opposing teams recognized on film that he was the weak link for us defensively just like Burrell. He cost us ballgames by giving up late TDs and letting opposing WR get behind him with no safety help over the top. There were weekly threads and comments here about his glaring weaknesses. ( amazingly he got into an NFL camp either as an undrafted FA, or a late round pick, and is STILL in the NFL 7 years later with Seattle. I blame coaching)

Pittsburgh runs the ball so much that even CJH talked last week about them using a 6th offensive lineman, to help blocking on run plays. It is their bread and butter. By my count, they ran the ball maybe 5 out of their first 20 snaps against us. They passed early and often...with great success. Their starting QB Slovis had almost 250 passing yards. At halftime.

" when in doubt, throw it to Burrell's man." That was their strategy, on top of the plays where Burrells man was the 1st read. I havent seen the PFF rankings for individual players yet from yesterday...I believe Burrell will grade out terribly though. He was beaten early and often, took bad angles, and most importantly let enemy WR get wide open. Dude must be like JG allegedly was under the Gump Coach we had...looks great in practice then plays horrendously in games? There HAS to be good reason that Martinez, then Banks allow the guy to play so much and even start. He is clearly a liability in games...and opposing coaches know this.

Thoughts? Coleman drove me insane when he was here. Only the sole multi-year starting QB in the history of UT football with a (very much) losing record ...JG....has caused more cussing, anger, frustration, cussing, and eventual apathy in my Vol watching living room than Coleman. He couldn't cover a piece of bologna with a loaf of bread...it appears Burrell is having the same issues. The rest of our pass defense actually played pretty well yesterday, and seems improved. I am proud of our team for gutting out a road win over a tough, top 20 team even though we spotted them 10 points and did not play our best. We have a good team, and i still think we go 8-4 or maybe even 9-3 if we beat Flarduh in 2 weeks.

What say you, Vol Nation?
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I’d rank him up there with Teddy Gaines
 
#55
#55
marcusluvsvols said:
Right? Burrell is the new Justin Coleman?

For those who don't remember, Coleman was an absolute liability in coverage. He was torched early and often...as opposing teams recognized on film that he was the weak link for us defensively just like Burrell. He cost us ballgames by giving up late TDs and letting opposing WR get behind him with no safety help over the top. There were weekly threads and comments here about his glaring weaknesses. ( amazingly he got into an NFL camp either as an undrafted FA, or a late round pick, and is STILL in the NFL 7 years later with Seattle. I blame coaching)

Pittsburgh runs the ball so much that even CJH talked last week about them using a 6th offensive lineman, to help blocking on run plays. It is their bread and butter. By my count, they ran the ball maybe 5 out of their first 20 snaps against us. They passed early and often...with great success. Their starting QB Slovis had almost 250 passing yards. At halftime.

" when in doubt, throw it to Burrell's man." That was their strategy, on top of the plays where Burrells man was the 1st read. I havent seen the PFF rankings for individual players yet from yesterday...I believe Burrell will grade out terribly though. He was beaten early and often, took bad angles, and most importantly let enemy WR get wide open. Dude must be like JG allegedly was under the Gump Coach we had...looks great in practice then plays horrendously in games? There HAS to be good reason that Martinez, then Banks allow the guy to play so much and even start. He is clearly a liability in games...and opposing coaches know this.

Thoughts? Coleman drove me insane when he was here. Only the sole multi-year starting QB in the history of UT football with a (very much) losing record ...JG....has caused more cussing, anger, frustration, cussing, and eventual apathy in my Vol watching living room than Coleman. He couldn't cover a piece of bologna with a loaf of bread...it appears Burrell is having the same issues. The rest of our pass defense actually played pretty well yesterday, and seems improved. I am proud of our team for gutting out a road win over a tough, top 20 team even though we spotted them 10 points and did not play our best. We have a good team, and i still think we go 8-4 or maybe even 9-3 if we beat Flarduh in 2 weeks.

What say you, Vol Nation?
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I think Burrel is playing his position based on the coverage, it MIGHT BE, coaching is putting him in a bad matchup......just saying.
 
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#56
#56
marcusluvsvols said:
Right? Burrell is the new Justin Coleman?

For those who don't remember, Coleman was an absolute liability in coverage. He was torched early and often...as opposing teams recognized on film that he was the weak link for us defensively just like Burrell. He cost us ballgames by giving up late TDs and letting opposing WR get behind him with no safety help over the top. There were weekly threads and comments here about his glaring weaknesses. ( amazingly he got into an NFL camp either as an undrafted FA, or a late round pick, and is STILL in the NFL 7 years later with Seattle. I blame coaching)

Pittsburgh runs the ball so much that even CJH talked last week about them using a 6th offensive lineman, to help blocking on run plays. It is their bread and butter. By my count, they ran the ball maybe 5 out of their first 20 snaps against us. They passed early and often...with great success. Their starting QB Slovis had almost 250 passing yards. At halftime.

" when in doubt, throw it to Burrell's man." That was their strategy, on top of the plays where Burrells man was the 1st read. I havent seen the PFF rankings for individual players yet from yesterday...I believe Burrell will grade out terribly though. He was beaten early and often, took bad angles, and most importantly let enemy WR get wide open. Dude must be like JG allegedly was under the Gump Coach we had...looks great in practice then plays horrendously in games? There HAS to be good reason that Martinez, then Banks allow the guy to play so much and even start. He is clearly a liability in games...and opposing coaches know this.

Thoughts? Coleman drove me insane when he was here. Only the sole multi-year starting QB in the history of UT football with a (very much) losing record ...JG....has caused more cussing, anger, frustration, cussing, and eventual apathy in my Vol watching living room than Coleman. He couldn't cover a piece of bologna with a loaf of bread...it appears Burrell is having the same issues. The rest of our pass defense actually played pretty well yesterday, and seems improved. I am proud of our team for gutting out a road win over a tough, top 20 team even though we spotted them 10 points and did not play our best. We have a good team, and i still think we go 8-4 or maybe even 9-3 if we beat Flarduh in 2 weeks.

What say you, Vol Nation?
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Coleman went on to be a VERY good NFL DB and is still getting a check last time I checked. Shows that his issue was coaching and scheme, not his talent.

Who was the defense backs coach when Coleman was here? You guessed it. Willie Martinez.
 
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#59
#59
TennEddie said:
On the last play of Pitt game, ALL the DBs looked lost.
A strong rush and poor throw saved us.
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It was 4th down and goal from the 21. Our DB's were in a deep drop zone. The purpose of that coverage is to keep everything in front of you, make them catch the ball short of the goal line, make a tackle and the games over. Looked like to me Patti threw it about the only place he could, tight window with a rusher in his face. As a defense that's about all you can do. If the offense executes perfectly they win the down. Defensively, you just try to make the margin of error as small as you can. Even if the Pitt defender makes the diving catch the games over on downs. Our DB's were dropping in zone following their QB's eyes and breaking on the throw. Could Patti have threaded the needle? Yeah he did on the 4th down TD in regulation to get Pitt to OT. But even if he does and even if the receiver makes the catch and even if he keeps his feet, he still has 5 yards to the end zone with the safety closing for the tackle.

My point is ALL our DB's were not lost. They were in their prevent zone drops. Could Pitt have made a great throw and catch, evaded our safety, scored, and kept the OT going? Of course, but we kept the margin of error too small for them to execute the play and we won the game.
 
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#60
#60
J C Higgins said:
Yes, it's allowed here but some boards don't allow it or in the past they haven't. I just don't see how it does anybody any good.
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Your fear is probably that it somehow does harm. I used to think that way. I still think the snarky, hateful, immature stuff is a bad look on the fanbase. That may do some harm if recruits or their supporters are lurking. But honest, respectful criticism doesn't hurt.

It isn't just folks here saying that Burrell is struggling or trying to figure out why. Some of us talked about how even Ball State seemed to find #4 and throw his way. Now on some of the Vol coverage on youtube from "beat" reporters... they're saying the same thing. AP even asked Jonathan Wade about it in one of his videos last week. It isn't like Burrell is a secret that we're letting out.

PS- I honestly think some of the reporters visit here to get insights and angles.
 
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#61
#61
sjt18 said:
Your fear is probably that it somehow does harm. I used to think that way. I still think the snarky, hateful, immature stuff is a bad look on the fanbase. That may do some harm if recruits or their supporters are lurking. But honest, respectful criticism doesn't hurt.

It isn't just folks here saying that Burrell is struggling or trying to figure out why. Some of us talked about how even Ball State seemed to find #4 and throw his way. Now on some of the Vol coverage on youtube from "beat" reporters... they're saying the same thing. AP even asked Jonathan Wade about it in one of his videos last week. It isn't like Burrell is a secret that we're letting out.

PS- I honestly think some of the reporters visit here to get insights and angles.
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It isn't a fear, just an opinion/philosophy. Don't see how it helps anybody and apparently the moderators/administrators of some boards have feltl the same or they wouldn't have disallowed maligning individual players.
 
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#64
#64
McDad said:
Last year with our defensive woes I looked into Tim Banks career as DC. He improved defenses every year at other programs. That trend gave me peace of mind about our D this year.
Related to Burrell, the point is, Banks knows what he is doing. If Burrell is playing, it means the next person isn't as ready or as good.
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Per @Vol865's comment, if he is playing mostly good, then hopefully we have the coaches to help him shore up his mistakes. Coleman I think turned it on his Senior year. Much like Warrior, Jackson and many other DBs that have gone pro. We need depths there and it's coming. DB has to be one of the hardest positions to play IMO.
 
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#65
#65
J C Higgins said:
Yes, it's allowed here but some boards don't allow it or in the past they haven't. I just don't see how it does anybody any good.[/QUOTE

I understand this point of view. If i had insulted Burrell as a young man, taken a shot at his character or made personal insults toward him as a human being then i would agree with you. The guy is a Vol after all...he deserves our support in life, and i hope he has a very successful life whether in football or after football.

The thing is....i never did that. I criticized his performance as a football player and starting corner for the 15th ranked SEC team we all know and love. His play is 100% fair game for criticism...and it is sorely lacking right now.

As other posters have pointed out, number 4 is getting singled out now by opposing offenses...both of our opponents...and is getting beat. A lot of the time. That pass at the end of regulation was a perfectly thrown pass against good coverage by Burrell. No problem there. The problem is this: he gave up many completions in both ball games, and it has been clear to anyone focusing on our secondary that the opposing coaches are making beating Burrell in pass coverage a focal point of their game plans. If he is on the field, every opponent will continue to do that....unless or until it doesnt work well for them anymore.

The nature of a Cornerback, especially in man coverage, is such that the other 10 guys on the field with you can all do their jobs...be in position and doing what they are coached to do....and if that Corner gets beat the entire defense fails on that play. Many times for a TD or a big gain. Corners are described as "being on an island" with their WR. If they fail, the defense fails.

Unfortunately Burrell is failing and getting beat frequently these days. Opponents will throw it his way more and more moving forward in our schedule. I wish him the best in life, and every success possible on the field....but if we do not stop the bleeding at the Corner spot opposite Hadden it will cost us ballgames in SEC play. If Burrell cannot win those 1on1 matchups outside....we had better find someone who can. Those 4 and 5 star receivers from these 8 SEC games we have to play are licking their lips, ready to feast if we do not find an answer fast at CB2.

Go VOLS and God bless.

Edit: i have no idea why my entire post is not normal color, but instead the color of a quoted post. Weird...
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#67
#67

RE : "we had better find someone who can."

If we don't have somebody better available what good does it do to malign the guy?
That's all I'm saying.
 
#68
#68
clarencepeabody said:
Yeah, I don’t immediately think of Burrell as the one who had a bad game. Especially since Flowers made the razzie highlight reel twice. I did see Burrell get lost once, but he was about half an inch away from that TD being incomplete.
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He had good coverage on the TD. I think he’s better in the red zone honestly. He gives too much cushion imo and gets lost too often. That said I thought it wasn’t a terrible game for him. Still can’t believe we don’t have a better option.
 
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#70
#70
I think the bowl game just messed with his confidence. He is a good player/athlete that I feel can get it done once he gets his confidence back. He is no "Touchdown Teddy" Gaines. I hate to hate on former players, but he was a liability back there for what seemed like 7 years.
 
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