Builder or Champion

#1
A

a vol n tears

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
1,596
Likes
1,809
#1
I have seen coaches throughout the years that take a team that is down and out, and turn them into good teams. I call them program builders. They are really good at taking a dumpster fire and make them competitive and move on to the next fire. Happens in all sports. Is it possible CBJ is a builder but cannot quite take that next step. I think Jones has done a fantastic job so far but I think this year will determine which he is. I think the EAST is as even as it will ever be. I'm hoping he can win championships and stays for his entire career. All good coaches have improved as the seasons come and go, no doubt. They will forget more than 99% of us think we know. What are your thoughts on CBJ as a builder or champ? I think this season's results may give us fans a good indication.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#2
#2
He's done really well at flipping the roster. The rest is unknown to this point. This is the year we find out what we've really got.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#4
#4
Yes. The OP could be absolutely right. And when you have a builder who can't take that next step.... the best time to cut the cord is when his building "process" has peaked. If you wait until a drop or even a plateau is recognizable.... you'll start having recruiting issues. That can only make the next guy's job harder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#5
#5
I think Butch Jones is going to end up being a coach closer to what Mike Shula was for Alabama. He came into a school with little talent, hung around for a few years and increased the talent pool, but ultimately it's making the transition to a star head coach that makes the program. The question is who is the coach that can take us to the next level, and will the next AD know when to make that change?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#6
#6
It will be interesting to see what the next coach can do with the talent Butch has recruited to UT.
 
#7
#7
I am not sold on CBJ but I really think he is capable of being a great coach..that said it all starts with WHO YOU HAVE AROUND YOU...I think his OC could be a lot better..He was not great at Michigan so why now..defensively are we better ? not sure..we will see..better coaches around you make you a better coach...we will see if these pieces fit or not starting this Saturday..Please show me we have not regressed this far back...:yikes:
 
#9
#9
Well, he hasn't won a championship at Tennessee yet, unless you count the Battle at Bristol, which I don't.

What he has done is
- Take Tennessee back to being a regular bowl participant, and more importantly, winner

- Gotten better each and every year

- Build a team that is capable of championship expectations


So ya know, let's hang out and quit trying to predict the future. Let's see if we can beat a Florida or Alabama. Let's measure ourselves against those teams.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#11
#11
His biggest problem was the need to save Mike Debord. He is a great recruiter and face of the program. He needed a solid hire at OC / QB coach and went with loyalty instead of talent. That if anything will be his downfall. I don't expect him to be fired this year no matter what. But I am hoping his had will be forced on the OC
 
#12
#12
Spawn said:
His biggest problem was the need to save Mike Debord. He is a great recruiter and face of the program. He needed a solid hire at OC / QB coach and went with loyalty instead of talent. That if anything will be his downfall. I don't expect him to be fired this year no matter what. But I am hoping his had will be forced on the OC
Click to expand...


If it is truly an offensive system issue, then the only way changing the OC helps, is if he gives in and lets them run their system.
 
#13
#13
Bukowskified said:
I think Butch Jones is going to end up being a coach closer to what Mike Shula was for Alabama. He came into a school with little talent, hung around for a few years and increased the talent pool, but ultimately it's making the transition to a star head coach that makes the program. The question is who is the coach that can take us to the next level, and will the next AD know when to make that change?
Click to expand...

...working on it now...:thumbsup:...:biggrin:

GO VOLS!
 
#14
#14
chargervol said:
If it is truly an offensive system issue, then the only way changing the OC helps, is if he gives in and lets them run their system.
Click to expand...

agreed. but you can't overstate not having a QB Coach on this staff and the accuracy issues. CBJ could still have his spread offense with a new OC system blended in
 
#15
#15
It took Fulmer five years to win a championship. The roster that Fulmer inherited was much better and overall the SEC was weaker at the top.
 
#16
#16
sjt18 said:
Yes. The OP could be absolutely right. And when you have a builder who can't take that next step.... the best time to cut the cord is when his building "process" has peaked. If you wait until a drop or even a plateau is recognizable.... you'll start having recruiting issues. That can only make the next guy's job harder.
Click to expand...

Plus itll be harder to attract a big time coach with a once again depleted roster.

IF butch goes 0-4 over the next month, it tells me all I need to know about this BSIA. And I think it would be best for our program to move on, but I know that won't happen.

UT will wait till we hit rock bottom again before making a change. The lack of aggressiveness within our AD is what has caused the last decade of misery in the first place.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#17
#17
ruger1234 said:
It took Fulmer five years to win a championship. The roster that Fulmer inherited was much better and overall the SEC was weaker at the top.
Click to expand...

The SEC was also much weaker which left the door of opportunity open. After Spurrier, there was a drop off in coaching talent and a lot of relatively short tenured coaches. The point is "builders" no longer win championships in the SEC by just trying to wait until everyone else has a down year at the same time. There are too many guys who can coach at a high level.

PS- Fulmer wasn't a very good game day coach either. Spurrier toyed with him more than competed with him.
 
#19
#19
ruger1234 said:
It took Fulmer five years to win a championship. The roster that Fulmer inherited was much better and overall the SEC was weaker at the top.
Click to expand...

Well there was that viser throwing guy in Gainesville that kept getting in the way.
 
#20
#20
Spawn said:
His biggest problem was the need to save Mike Debord. He is a great recruiter and face of the program. He needed a solid hire at OC / QB coach and went with loyalty instead of talent. That if anything will be his downfall. I don't expect him to be fired this year no matter what. But I am hoping his had will be forced on the OC
Click to expand...

I am not sure hiring DeBord was a simple as a "loyalty instead of talent" issue.

Butch seemed to have no problem letting Jancek go, who he had worked with for a long time, to hire a more talented DC who he had no personal connection to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#21
#21
chargervol said:
If it is truly an offensive system issue, then the only way changing the OC helps, is if he gives in and lets them run their system.
Click to expand...

This is it. It's his offensive system IMO. Whoever he hires, whoever works for him as OC is gonna coordinate his offensive system. So if you don't like the system, which I don't, I think you have to realize what and who is at fault, for lack of a better term/phrase. If you have your sights fixed on Jones' OC, whether it's Bajakian or Debord, you're aiming at the wrong target IMHO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#22
#22
I don't think he's either really as evidenced by the amount of depth he has built. Practically no depth at all. Get a real championship coach.
 
#23
#23
Revengevol said:
I don't think he's either really as evidenced by the amount of depth he has built. Practically no depth at all. Get a real championship coach.
Click to expand...

UT is deep at QB, RB, TE, WR (compared to other teams and not Jones' desires), CB, DE, DT, and S.

They're deep at OG, WLB, SLB, and C. They're thin at OT and MLB.

This is actually better than the norm across college football. Most CFB coaches and all of the really good ones would see that roster as a tremendous opportunity to beat everyone. I suspect every other SEC HC would have converted an OLB to MLB rather than playing Jumper.

Bama has talent stacked at every position but virtually everyone else has 3 or 4 areas where they're either very young or very thin. VERY few teams reach Jones' goals for "depth"... EVER. But he seems to suggest that's the only way he can win big.
 
Last edited:
#24
#24
KBVol said:
This is it. It's his offensive system IMO. Whoever he hires, whoever works for him as OC is gonna coordinate his offensive system. So if you don't like the system, which I don't, I think you have to realize what and who is at fault, for lack of a better term/phrase. If you have your sights fixed on Jones' OC, whether it's Bajakian or Debord, you're aiming at the wrong target IMHO.
Click to expand...

This^
 
#25
#25
At this point in the season, I am leaning towards Butch being the transitional Mike Shula or Ron Zook type coach. I'm not convinced in his coaching bona fides to date. He has done an amazing job of flipping the roster and strengthening the inner workings of the program, but ultimately it has to translate to the field.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top