Bryce Drew and Avery Johnson

[Volinlife]

That is wrong.

They were both picked next to last or last first year. Zo finished second in the SEC. and went to the NIT. Barnes was picked next to last or last and finished 12th.

"Martin took over a depleted roster with low expectations. After the departure of Tobias Harris following his freshman season, the Volunteers were picked to finish near the bottom of the SEC in 2011-12 . . . Martin took a team that had lost their top three—and seven of their top ten—contributors from the previous season to a second-place finish in the SEC "


Second year. Zo finished 4th and the best returning player sat out the year. Barnes finished 9th. Zo went to the NIT. Barnes no postseason.

Third year. Neither one ranked preseason. Zo won 21 games and finished one missed call from the Elite Eight. Third year Barnes won 26 but lost earlier in the tourney.

Barnes has and had just as much or more talent than Zo. We have more future NBA players and at least two possible first rounders now. Those teams had 0 first rounders and one regular NBA player.

They were young the first couple years. Its funny that people see that for Barnes but not Zo. For some reason people think Zo should have had his players playing like Sr and JR as freshmen but don't hold Barnes to that standard.

The rankings and wins can't be debated. There for anyone to see.

And I guess you forgot that Barnes lost to Chattanooga in YEAR TWO. Lost to George Washington and GT the year before. It happens to all coaches.


Just stop. Zo did just as well as Barnes the first three years. We didn't see year four. He recruited Stokes. The others did zero before he came. He also had Jaylen Brown on the way here. You should stop with the revisionist bs. Barnes inherited Admiral, five star Hubbs, and JC AA Punter.

Punter was the PG. No need to lie. You are twisting enough facts as it is.


Barnes is the best coach we have had by far. Zo did match or exceed what Barnes was praised for the first couple of years though. Its stupid.

Bottom line is his teams played like crap until he made it team against fans after barely making the tournament in his best year.

 

[k-town_king]

People were frustrated with CM partly because of style of play and partly because they felt he did less with more. Great, high character coach, no doubt. Remember that our "almost elite 8 team" had to win a play in game to make it in.

Did less wit more? That is the part that kills me.

How? He finished way above ranking his preseason rankings each season he was here.

If you think he should have won more games when the players were still young the first two years then you must think Barnes was terrible. Same situation with less wins. And as it turns out more talent too. Zo never had any first round picks. Barnes may have at least two off of these teams.

 

[LordBolton]

Disagree. Dude had top recruits all on that team. I know Garland was the big one, but they also had two other 5* players as well. He'd been there 3 years and only got worse each year even after he upgraded the talent level. That's a bad coach in any sport.

Those are Warlick numbers right there.

 

[k-town_king]

Bottom line is his teams played like crap until he made it team against fans after barely making the tournament in his best year.

Wrong. He went on a run late the first two years two. That was his pattern. That is what happens when you have new major pieces to integrate or injuries. Figure things out early and make adjustments to finish strong. He should have made it his second year and was snubbed.

 

[TJ1985]

Did less wit more? That is the part that kills me.

How? He finished way above ranking his preseason rankings each season he was here.

If you think he should have won more games when the players were still young the first two years then you must think Barnes was terrible. Same situation with less wins. And as it turns out more talent too. Zo never had any first round picks. Barnes may have at least two off of these teams.

I think his 3rd season was when fans got unsettled. That team should've never been a bubble team.

 

[rdk4121]

That is wrong.

They were both picked next to last or last first year. Zo finished second in the SEC. and went to the NIT. Barnes was picked next to last or last and finished 12th.

"Martin took over a depleted roster with low expectations. After the departure of Tobias Harris following his freshman season, the Volunteers were picked to finish near the bottom of the SEC in 2011-12 . . . Martin took a team that had lost their top three—and seven of their top ten—contributors from the previous season to a second-place finish in the SEC "


Second year. Zo finished 4th and the best returning player sat out the year. Barnes finished 9th. Zo went to the NIT. Barnes no postseason.

Third year. Neither one ranked preseason. Zo won 21 games and finished one missed call from the Elite Eight. Third year Barnes won 26 but lost earlier in the tourney.

Barnes has and had just as much or more talent than Zo. We have more future NBA players and at least two possible first rounders now. Those teams had 0 first rounders and one regular NBA player.

They were young the first couple years. Its funny that people see that for Barnes but not Zo. For some reason people think Zo should have had his players playing like Sr and JR as freshmen but don't hold Barnes to that standard.

The rankings and wins can't be debated. There for anyone to see.

And I guess you forgot that Barnes lost to Chattanooga in YEAR TWO. Lost to George Washington and GT the year before. It happens to all coaches.


Just stop. Zo did just as well as Barnes the first three years. We didn't see year four. He recruited Stokes. The others did zero before he came. He also had Jaylen Brown on the way here. You should stop with the revisionist bs. Barnes inherited Admiral, five star Hubbs, and JC AA Punter.

Punter was the PG. No need to lie. You are twisting enough facts as it is.


Barnes is the best coach we have had by far. Zo did match or exceed what Barnes was praised for the first couple of years though. Its stupid.

I just listed off Martin's first team to you, if you think that's depleted you've lost your mind or just flat out stupid.

You're right about punter being the pg, Moore was Tyndall's.

Jaylen Brown probably wasn't coming here, but that 7 footer was (I don't remember his name). Maybe he would have, but that's just projecting. He already had 4 people committed at that point as well, 5 with the 7 footer.

We can pretend like Hubbs played like a 5 star at any point in his career as well. Also, at least Chattanooga was reasonably good that year, they made the tournament.

The fact that we finished tied for second should tell you all you need to know about the SEC back then. During his tenure the sec got 4, 2, and 3 teams in the tournament. The sec was a joke then. Martin was mediocre his entire tenure. Barnes wasn't good his first year, but got better every year.

The sweet 16 was pretty lucky anyway, beat Iowa which was good, but UMass and Mercer sucked. Obviously we could have beat Michigan as well, but still.

Either way, Martin finished the regular season 18-14, 20-12, and 21-12. Barnes also inherited way more of a mess considering he was the 3rd coach in 3 years. Martin followed up the most successful coach to date (which isn't easy, but was certainly better than barnes's situation). Also we generally played an easier non conference schedule under Martin (which didn't help getting in the tournament the first two years).

Barnes didn't luck into an sec championship, I know that. Every Martin defender just essentially wants to claim that the fanbase didn't like him because he was African American. That just isn't the case. You present your facts, but just completely ignore the landscape of the sec and college basketball at the time. Martin wasn't bad, he wasn't great, he was mediocre.

 

[rdk4121]

Either way, at the time I wanted Martin to stay. But I think we're better off now than we would be with him here now.

 

[Rudy123]

Johnson was fired yesterday. Kennedy at A&M was already fired, Will Wade might still be fired at LSU. I personally don't think vandy should have fired Drew, I know 0-18 is terrible, but give him a year to make significant progress.

His whole was dependent on a freshman. Freshman was injured early

 

[k-town_king]

I think his 3rd season was when fans got unsettled. That team should've never been a bubble team.

We were not picked top 25 preseason. We won over 20 and made the Sweet 16 and almost EE. It doesn't matter how many regular season wins.

So if we won 30 during the year and lost first round that would have been a better year? No

 

[k-town_king]

I just listed off Martin's first team to you, if you think that's depleted you've lost your mind or just flat out stupid.

You're right about punter being the pg, Moore was Tyndall's.

Jaylen Brown probably wasn't coming here, but that 7 footer was (I don't remember his name). Maybe he would have, but that's just projecting. He already had 4 people committed at that point as well, 5 with the 7 footer.

We can pretend like Hubbs played like a 5 star at any point in his career as well. Also, at least Chattanooga was reasonably good that year, they made the tournament.

The fact that we finished tied for second should tell you all you need to know about the SEC back then. During his tenure the sec got 4, 2, and 3 teams in the tournament. The sec was a joke then. Martin was mediocre his entire tenure. Barnes wasn't good his first year, but got better every year.

The sweet 16 was pretty lucky anyway, beat Iowa which was good, but UMass and Mercer sucked. Obviously we could have beat Michigan as well, but still.

Either way, Martin finished the regular season 18-14, 20-12, and 21-12. Barnes also inherited way more of a mess considering he was the 3rd coach in 3 years. Martin followed up the most successful coach to date (which isn't easy, but was certainly better than barnes's situation). Also we generally played an easier non conference schedule under Martin (which didn't help getting in the tournament the first two years).

Barnes didn't luck into an sec championship, I know that. Every Martin defender just essentially wants to claim that the fanbase didn't like him because he was African American. That just isn't the case. You present your facts, but just completely ignore the landscape of the sec and college basketball at the time. Martin wasn't bad, he wasn't great, he was mediocre.

He wasn't bad or great. He was GOOD though. If you finish above projections EVERY YEAR, then you did well. Not great but good.

Also his teams got better every year. But you only give Barnes credit for improving.

He had a team of underperformers and youngins and made the postseason each year. Got further his third year than Barnes.


He wasn't great but the he was bad narrative is dumb af. Pearl left a huge mess too. They were coming off a 30 point beatdown in the tourney and lost all the good players. the top returning scorer was at 3.3 ppg the year before. Then Maymon missed the whole second season.

 

[TJ1985]

We were not picked top 25 preseason. We won over 20 and made the Sweet 16 and almost EE. It doesn't matter how many regular season wins.

So if we won 30 during the year and lost first round that would have been a better year? No

I don't disagree. But like I said, we were a bubble team which means there was a good chance we could've missed the dance. It was during that time that fans like me were frustrated because the team wasn't performing to expectations. It wasn't until there was an outcry of frustration (the petition) that the team went on a run.

 

[PandamoniumReigns]

My take from reading this thread...

Cuonzo sucked.

K-Town King = Cuonzo or a relative (he claims he is friend or his wife was somehow. Not buying it)

Barnes has NBA players and cuonzo didnt. Despite the fact that Barnes develops his players. (Richardson and McRae apparently dont count for Cuonzo as NBA players)

If you think Cuonzo sucks, its not because of basketball or his coaching. K-town wants bait you into something else. Hes just waiting for someone to bring it up.

 

[BreatheUT]

He had 3 years, and they steadily got worse each year. Him landing Garland to begin with was kind of a fluke because of the pre-existing relationship he had as his AAU coach when he was a kid. Is that repeatable? He also got Shittu, another 5-star, but he played nothing remotely like one.

Generally speaking, SEC schools just have higher expectations in basketball now. If this was 10 years ago, perhaps Drew gets another year. Drew was fired, Avery Johnson was fired, and A&M already fired Kennedy even though he made it to the Sweet Sixteen twice in 3 years. A&M isn't even a basketball school and hasn't been a good basketball school historically, but they've made it clear that Sweet Sixteens mixed in with below .500 years where you miss the tournament isn't acceptable.

We as Vols have experience with this...we ran Cuonzo off after 3 years with a .615 conference winning percentage and Sweet Sixteen run in his third year. What used to be considered good enough isn't good enough anymore.

You do realize a .615 winning percentage sucks? It is 19-12. And was Cuonzo's record even that good?

 

[k-town_king]

My take from reading this thread...

Cuonzo sucked.

K-Town King = Cuonzo or a relative (he claims he is friend or his wife was somehow. Not buying it)

Barnes has NBA players and cuonzo didnt. Despite the fact that Barnes develops his players. (Richardson and McRae apparently dont count for Cuonzo as NBA players)

If you think Cuonzo sucks, its not because of basketball or his coaching. K-town wants bait you into something else. Hes just waiting for someone to bring it up.

My take. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Numbers don't lie. If he sucked I guess Barnes sucked too with better players and less wins with the same expectations.

J Rich developed nicely. He wasn't a first round pick. He is an NBA player. McRae really isn't he is a G league player.

AS and GW will possibly be first round picks. Bone probably will be be an NBA player. Bowden wouldn't surprise me either.

Zo developed his players too. What are you talking about? No one he got was already a good or established player.

I'm sticking to bball. You are the only one bringing anything else up.


The fact is if you complain about his three years and you don't do the same about Barnes first three you are just an idiot or have an agenda.

The rankings and wins are there for anyone to see.





Done with this stupid debate though. The numbers are there. they don't lie. If you didn't like him just say it. Don't act like he was a bad coach here when he did better the first two years than Barnes and got further in the tourney in year three.

I don't disagree. But like I said, we were a bubble team which means there was a good chance we could've missed the dance. It was during that time that fans like me were frustrated because the team wasn't performing to expectations. It wasn't until there was an outcry of frustration (the petition) that the team went on a run.

Chance don't matter we made it. He did meet expectations. We were not ranked in the preseason. Many other teams had more talent. We got to a Sweet 16. Made up unrealistic fan expectations don't matter. The polls are there for a reason and they make preseason prognostications for a reason. He beat all of them.

The team went on a run the two years prior in the second half of the season with no petition. Its dumb to think that is what made it happen FOR THE THIRD STRAIGHT YEAR. And people act like we didn't have a new starting PG. We adjusted and went on a run like the other two years.

 

[TJ1985]

My take. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Numbers don't lie. If he sucked I guess Barnes sucked too with better players and less wins with the same expectations.

J Rich developed nicely. He wasn't a first round pick. He is an NBA player. McRae really isn't he is a G league player.

AS and GW will possibly be first round picks. Bone probably will be be an NBA player. Bowden wouldn't surprise me either.

Zo developed his players too. What are you talking about? No one he got was already a good or established player.

I'm sticking to bball. You are the only one bringing anything else up.


The fact is if you complain about his three years and you don't do the same about Barnes first three you are just an idiot or have an agenda.

The rankings and wins are there for anyone to see.





Done with this stupid debate though. The numbers are there. they don't lie. If you didn't like him just say it. Don't act like he was a bad coach here when he did better the first two years than Barnes and got further in the tourney in year three.



Chance don't matter we made it. He did meet expectations. We were not ranked in the preseason. Many other teams had more talent. We got to a Sweet 16. Made up unrealistic fan expectations don't matter. The polls are there for a reason and they make preseason prognostications for a reason. He beat all of them.

The team went on a run the two years prior in the second half of the season with no petition. Its dumb to think that is what made it happen FOR THE THIRD STRAIGHT YEAR. And people act like we didn't have a new starting PG. We adjusted and went on a run like the other two years.

How would you rate CM's success post UT?

 

[PandamoniumReigns]

I'm sticking to bball. You are the only one bringing anything else up.

Lets not have another revisionist bash Zo debate. He had similar expectations and more success than Barnes his first two years. Got to the tourney and a Sweet 16 year three.

People just didn't like him for a multitude of reasons. Most non basketball related. Some due to style of play.

Wrong. Care to explain what you mean by most non basketball related reasons why people dont like him?

Take your cuonzo agenda elsewhere. Stop trying to incite something that doesnt exist.

 

[lynnh]

Bryce Drew fired

Avery Johnson not far behind.

I heard he took job selling hair gel for men and is trying sign Calamari up ………………………..GO VOLS

 

[feathersax]

What if we had not gotten that 6pt play off the hook and hold in the final minute? That loss would have lived on for decades!

The very thought makes my toenails curl. Aack!

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

We were not picked top 25 preseason. We won over 20 and made the Sweet 16 and almost EE. It doesn't matter how many regular season wins.

So if we won 30 during the year and lost first round that would have been a better year? No

I am with you that we did Cuonzo wrong and that it wasn't solely due to basketball reasons.

The 3rd year we were a borderline top 10 team by the efficiency numbers but our record was average since we blew so many close games. We were the last at large team in the field that year. Had one more tourney upset happened in another conference, we would have been back in the NIT. The way the 3rd regular season played out plus those "non basketball reasons" is why fanbase turned on him...

 

[PEPPERJAX]

This thread deserves a petition.

 

[CampBlount]

LOL! 25 of the 45 posts (so far) are about Cuonzo, who's been gone 5 years -- in a thread about Drew & Johnson, who were fired this week.

Y'all funny.

 

[Kosmalski]

Counzo has cut and run just in time everywhere he went.

Not sure he has anywhere to run to now.

 

[sport3500]

Who will Vanderbilt and Alabama go after as far as replacements?