Bryce Brown?

#127
#127
Lord Vader said:
Masoli and James out of jail yet?
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I believe there is a thread for this subject. So, nobody blame me for going off topic.

Since you asked.

Masoli hasn't been charged with anything at this point, let alone put in jail. There are unsourced rumors that this could change. We'll see.

James was in jail for a few days before he plead not guilty and was released. His next court appearance is later this month. We'll see what happens.

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Don't be angry with me that I was right about the risk Brown took going to UT under Kiffin. That's on Kiffin and the fans that supported him being HC there, despite all the giant neon signs indicating that he was bad news. Be happy that the guy is gone.
 
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#128
#128
wheaton4prez said:
I believe there is a thread for this subject. So, nobody blame me for going off topic.

Since you asked.

Masoli hasn't been charged with anything at this point, let alone put in jail. There are unsourced rumors that this could change. We'll see.

James was in jail for a few days before he plead not guilty and was released. His next court appearance is later this month. We'll see what happens.

---

Don't be angry with me that I was right about the risk Brown took going to UT under Kiffin. That's on Kiffin and the fans that supported him being HC there, despite all the giant neon signs indicating that he was bad news. Be happy that the guy is gone.
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How was he "bad" news? I was happy with the Kiffin hire and still am. I think it was the right hire at the time. No one could've guessed that USC would open up and that they would offer Kiffin after only a year.
 
#130
#130
Volfan8282 said:
How was he "bad" news? I was happy with the Kiffin hire and still am. I think it was the right hire at the time. No one could've guessed that USC would open up and that they would offer Kiffin after only a year.
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He was bad news because he didn't finish what he started at UT and left the program in a difficult position to transition. You're acting like an opening at USC would automatically move anyone in that situation. Many if not most coaches with integrity would not have left under those circumstances. That Kiffin would, however, could have been guessed by most fans.

I'm guessing that you're in the minority of UT fans that are still happy with the Kiffin hire.
 
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#131
#131
His scout page says Brown runs a 4.4. I wonder if his hip was slowing him down a lot last season, he didn't look to be as fast as Hardesty.
 
#132
#132
wheaton4prez said:
He was bad news because he didn't finish what he started at UT and left the program in a difficult position to transition. You're acting like an opening at USC would automatically move anyone in that situation. Many if not most coaches with integrity would not have left under those circumstances. That Kiffin would, however, could have been guessed by most fans.

I'm guessing that you're in the minority of UT fans that are still happy with the Kiffin hire.
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If you haven't noticed, that's the sports business bud. This is a job for these coaches. He had no obligation to stay at UT if his dream job opened up. That's why there are buy-out clauses. USC is a top 3 job, and it's a job where he, in particular, is much more comfortable. So, yeah, if anyone was in his shoes with his background, then they should've done the same thing. It was a smart business decision. Plain and simple.

My point was that it was still a smart decision on Hamilton's part too. The only real way that it would've backfired is what ended up happening... and who could've guessed that all of those dominoes would've fallen? I really don't think Kiffin would've left for another program, if nothing else due to his arrogance. He wasn't going to drop down to a "lower" program, and USC was really the only program that I can think of that is better than Tennessee and would give him a shot.... especially at this point in his career. So, yeah, it was worth the shot.
 
#133
#133
oklavol said:
His scout page says Brown runs a 4.4. I wonder if his hip was slowing him down a lot last season, he didn't look to be as fast as Hardesty.
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If it was a hip pointer or a hip flexor injury, then I can guarantee you that it slowed him down.
 
#134
#134
Volfan8282 said:
If you haven't noticed, that's the sports business bud. This is a job for these coaches. He had no obligation to stay at UT if his dream job opened up. That's why there are buy-out clauses. USC is a top 3 job, and it's a job where he, in particular, is much more comfortable. So, yeah, if anyone was in his shoes with his background, then they should've done the same thing. It was a smart business decision. Plain and simple.
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If you haven't noticed, integrity is valuable in the sports business bud. If you haven't noticed, Kiffin is the laughing stock of college football. Given that, how long do you think USC fans will tolerate anything less than what Pete Carroll did? How seriously will players take Kiffin when he has to mete out discipline or ask for commitment to the program?

It was not a smart business decision. It's the type of decision that a teenager would make. "Yay! My dream job! Who cares how this makes me look."

People would understand if it was a jump from a lower tiered school. But, it's not like he didn't have a top-level position at UT. I think you're selling your own program short to think that going to USC after one year at UT is a no-brainer.
 
#135
#135
wheaton4prez said:
If you haven't noticed, integrity is valuable in the sports business bud. If you haven't noticed, Kiffin is the laughing stock of college football. Given that, how long do you think USC fans will tolerate anything less than what Pete Carroll did? How seriously will players take Kiffin when he has to mete out discipline or ask for commitment to the program?

It was not a smart business decision. It's the type of decision that a teenager would make. "Yay! My dream job! Who cares how this makes me look."

People would understand if it was a jump from a lower tiered school. But, it's not like he didn't have a top-level position at UT. I think you're selling your own program short to think that going to USC after one year at UT is a no-brainer.
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I don't think it "lacks integrity" to do what he did. Maybe I'm weird, but if I have a "dream" job that is across the country that would make me happier, my family happier, and would just be an overall easier job at a better company that also happens to pay more, then I'm taking it. I don't care if I'm 2 weeks into the current job. How often does the USC job come open? There's no way to know when Kiffin would get a chance at USC again. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't.

As far as your initial questions go, the players will respect Kiffin. He threw plenty of UT players off the team. He doesn't have discipline issues. Now, if players go off and do dumb things on their own (a la Nukeese and Co.), then no coach can control that.

Also, how is Kiffin the "laughing stock of college football" and still able to reel in the #2 recruiting class? I don't think top high school players think that he's a laughing stock. The bottom line is that it WAS a smart business decision if for no other reason that it is a much more comfortable situation for him. USC is a better program than UT. It just is.

Kiffin will have a short leash probably at USC. But, it's pretty hard to struggle at USC. He's already landed a stellar recruiting class. He's in the PAC-10 which is 10x easier to win in than the SEC. He'll continue to recruit really well. I honestly think that he'll have similar success to what Carroll had.
 
#136
#136
Volfan8282 said:
I don't think it "lacks integrity" to do what he did. Maybe I'm weird, but if I have a "dream" job that is across the country that would make me happier, my family happier, and would just be an overall easier job at a better company that also happens to pay more, then I'm taking it. I don't care if I'm 2 weeks into the current job. How often does the USC job come open? There's no way to know when Kiffin would get a chance at USC again. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't.

As far as your initial questions go, the players will respect Kiffin. He threw plenty of UT players off the team. He doesn't have discipline issues. Now, if players go off and do dumb things on their own (a la Nukeese and Co.), then no coach can control that.

Also, how is Kiffin the "laughing stock of college football" and still able to reel in the #2 recruiting class? I don't think top high school players think that he's a laughing stock. The bottom line is that it WAS a smart business decision if for no other reason that it is a much more comfortable situation for him. USC is a better program than UT. It just is.

Kiffin will have a short leash probably at USC. But, it's pretty hard to struggle at USC. He's already landed a stellar recruiting class. He's in the PAC-10 which is 10x easier to win in than the SEC. He'll continue to recruit really well. I honestly think that he'll have similar success to what Carroll had.
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Agreed for the most part. 1st he brought in the #1 class 2nd i would say the pac-10 is easier but it's still no easy task.
 
#137
#137
Volfan8282 said:
I don't think it "lacks integrity" to do what he did. Maybe I'm weird, but if I have a "dream" job that is across the country that would make me happier, my family happier, and would just be an overall easier job at a better company that also happens to pay more, then I'm taking it. I don't care if I'm 2 weeks into the current job. How often does the USC job come open? There's no way to know when Kiffin would get a chance at USC again. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't.

As far as your initial questions go, the players will respect Kiffin. He threw plenty of UT players off the team. He doesn't have discipline issues. Now, if players go off and do dumb things on their own (a la Nukeese and Co.), then no coach can control that.

Also, how is Kiffin the "laughing stock of college football" and still able to reel in the #2 recruiting class? I don't think top high school players think that he's a laughing stock. The bottom line is that it WAS a smart business decision if for no other reason that it is a much more comfortable situation for him.
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I'm with you until right about here

Volfan8282 said:
USC is a better program than UT. It just is.

Kiffin will have a short leash probably at USC. But, it's pretty hard to struggle at USC. He's already landed a stellar recruiting class. He's in the PAC-10 which is 10x easier to win in than the SEC. He'll continue to recruit really well. I honestly think that he'll have similar success to what Carroll had.
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College football is nothing if not cyclical. 15 years ago you could say the same thing about Nebraska. 10 years ago you could say the same thing about Miami. I don't think it's "hard" to struggle at any school.

A better program is in the eye of the beholder after you get to a certain point.

Certainly Michigan is a better job that Middle Tennessee State, but once you get to the major schools it's the coach that makes the program.
 
#138
#138
I'm not sure what to think about Bryce Brown,I don't really know how his hip problem was affecting his play last year,I thought he looked good at times and just OK at other times,there should be some big time competition for starting RB,I'm hoping that Toney Williams is completely healthy also,but that could be this fall ,hopefully,a new set of coaches and a new year coming,it will be hard to say who will start this year and I can't see him going anywhere
 
#139
#139
Has Brown formally announced he's coming back? I haven't heard anything from a presser yet.
 
#140
#140
OrangeBrownie said:
I'm with you until right about here



College football is nothing if not cyclical. 15 years ago you could say the same thing about Nebraska. 10 years ago you could say the same thing about Miami. I don't think it's "hard" to struggle at any school.

A better program is in the eye of the beholder after you get to a certain point.

Certainly Michigan is a better job that Middle Tennessee State, but once you get to the major schools it's the coach that makes the program.
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Yeah, I guess it just depends on how you judge it. I judge it by the ability to win. It's easier to recruit and win at USC. The PAC-10 isn't the SEC, and California isn't Tennessee. Recruiting and scheduling are probably the biggest 2 factors in winning. That's why I think USC will always be ahead of UT as long as the PAC-10 remains weak b/c I don't see the recruiting changing.
 
#141
#141
Volfan8282 said:
I don't think it "lacks integrity" to do what he did. Maybe I'm weird, but if I have a "dream" job that is across the country that would make me happier, my family happier, and would just be an overall easier job at a better company that also happens to pay more, then I'm taking it. I don't care if I'm 2 weeks into the current job. How often does the USC job come open? There's no way to know when Kiffin would get a chance at USC again. Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't.
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Not the whole picture. It does lack integrity to sell the future of what you will do with a program to the players on the team, the fans and the university and then to ditch all of that before you even begin to deliver it. It lacks integrity to say that you are "all Vol" and then do something that hurts the Vol program over personal satisfaction.

Some jobs come with a higher level of responsibility than others. Leaving a job that involves architecting and executing a relatively long-term plan on which a lot of people are depending is not the same thing as leaving Chevron to work at Exxon because you like the weather better in California.

Volfan8282 said:
As far as your initial questions go, the players will respect Kiffin. He threw plenty of UT players off the team. He doesn't have discipline issues. Now, if players go off and do dumb things on their own (a la Nukeese and Co.), then no coach can control that.
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Goodfellas.

Being a respected leader involves a lot more than being feared. At some point, if you rely on that, your punishments only foster resentment rather than a sense of justice. Part of leading is projecting that you believe yourself in what you are saying. Talks that every coach has to have about sticking with a commitment, following through and integrity will be hollow words for Lane Kiffin and everyone knows it.

Volfan8282 said:
Also, how is Kiffin the "laughing stock of college football" and still able to reel in the #2 recruiting class? I don't think top high school players think that he's a laughing stock. The bottom line is that it WAS a smart business decision if for no other reason that it is a much more comfortable situation for him. USC is a better program than UT. It just is.
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That wasn't Lane Kiffin's recruiting class. It was already established by other people. A lot of kids are probably sticking around because they think that they have a good shot at winning at USC, whoever is the HC.

And there is evidence that players do think Kiffin is a laughing stock. I'm sure you remember this:

"When I got there, Coach Kiffin and some of the other guys were cussing a lot and up in your face, and I didn't like that," Eastland said. "They never said anything about the school or the academics; it was all just about coming to play football for them. I knew (Kiffin) was up to no good when I met him. I just felt like something wasn't right.

"Then we all got in a room and some of them started ripping their shirts off. I thought they were idiots. I thought it was stupid and I wanted to leave, but I was afraid it would have been disrespectful. That just wasn't my type of environment."

Volfan8282 said:
Kiffin will have a short leash probably at USC. But, it's pretty hard to struggle at USC. He's already landed a stellar recruiting class. He's in the PAC-10 which is 10x easier to win in than the SEC. He'll continue to recruit really well. I honestly think that he'll have similar success to what Carroll had.
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If Kiffin isn't a laughing stock, why would he have a short leash? How is it a good business decision to do things that give you a short leash?

The Pac-10 is easy to win in even though USC, with back-to-back-to-back top recruiting classes got their asses handed to them by Stanford and Oregon and lost to Washington and Arizona last year?

Volfan8282 said:
Yeah, I guess it just depends on how you judge it. I judge it by the ability to win. It's easier to recruit and win at USC. The PAC-10 isn't the SEC, and California isn't Tennessee. Recruiting and scheduling are probably the biggest 2 factors in winning. That's why I think USC will always be ahead of UT as long as the PAC-10 remains weak b/c I don't see the recruiting changing.
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I think you're selling Carroll's CEO and recruiting ability short. We got used to USC standing out because he had a remarkable run there. But, those of us who have been watching for a while (not saying you haven't) will remember that it wasn't that long ago that USC sucked. In fact, before Pete Carroll, USC mostly sucked for about twice as long as they have been recently good.

As someone else pointed out, these things are cyclical. UT could become the USC of the future. At UT, Kiffin had the long-term support as someone building a program up. At USC, anything that goes wrong will be seen by fans as a sign that they have the wrong guy. As you suggest yourself, the perception is that anyone should be able to win at USC. That's why it was a stupid business decision for Kiffin to damage his integrity to go to a program with immediate expectations to win the conference.
 
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#142
#142
Any coach with half a brain can dominate at usc--the recruits love to go there because of access to all the clubs, stars and rappers and "outside benefits" provided to the players and plus they play in a creampuff conference, with easy wins guaranteed every week. Just keep the players eligible somehow and rack up the wins.
 
#143
#143
wheaton4prez said:
I believe there is a thread for this subject. So, nobody blame me for going off topic.

Since you asked.

Masoli hasn't been charged with anything at this point, let alone put in jail. There are unsourced rumors that this could change. We'll see.

James was in jail for a few days before he plead not guilty and was released. His next court appearance is later this month. We'll see what happens.

---

Don't be angry with me that I was right about the risk Brown took going to UT under Kiffin. That's on Kiffin and the fans that supported him being HC there, despite all the giant neon signs indicating that he was bad news. Be happy that the guy is gone.
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:birgits_giggle:
 
#144
#144
Who the hell resurrected Wheaton?? This board was just starting to get some form of sanity back until he showed back up. I don't know if I can take another 6 months of him.
 
#145
#145
VolsRule said:
Any coach with half a brain can dominate at usc--the recruits love to go there because of access to all the clubs, stars and rappers and "outside benefits" provided to the players and plus they play in a creampuff conference, with easy wins guaranteed every week. Just keep the players eligible somehow and rack up the wins.
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All of that is a fairly recent phenomenon. Before Pete Carroll, USC had spent the previous 15 years in complete mediocrity.
 
#147
#147
Volfan8282 said:
Yeah, I guess it just depends on how you judge it. I judge it by the ability to win. It's easier to recruit and win at USC. The PAC-10 isn't the SEC, and California isn't Tennessee. Recruiting and scheduling are probably the biggest 2 factors in winning. That's why I think USC will always be ahead of UT as long as the PAC-10 remains weak b/c I don't see the recruiting changing.
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I don't deny that scheduling and recruiting play a huge role, but if they were everything than Miami would never lose.

They play in the weak ACC and reside in one of the best recruiting areas in the country.

It's all cyclical....
 
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