Breaking Down the 2015 Losses

[tarvol73]

Barnett

 

[chuck0303]

I feel like I am alone in the wilderness here, but the offense was a problem in some of these losses as well. In fact, I would argue the offense was the bigger problem.

Bottom line, IMO, the defense got it done against Oklahoma and Alabama. Those two teams were held to under 20 in regulation. That's got to get it done. And against Oklahoma, the offense went on vacation for 3 quarters.

The offense was not that impressive against Arkansas either.

Florida is the only game where the defense bears most all of the blame, but there were coaching decisions all over the place (not just by a defensive coordinator) that can be called into question.

Not often that I agree with you 99 but, I agree with you mostly. I think the offense didn't get it done primarily because of the conservative, Fulmer-like, playing calling (the trying to run-the-clock-out strategy) after getting a small lead. That is squarely on the coaches; those plays were designed to take time off the clock 1, 2, 3 punt.

 

[chuck0303]

Players consistently did NOT execute vs Arkansas.

Bama- well played game against a team with more talented depth.

UF and OU- COACHING strategy. Tried to go 4 corners too early and got bit in both games. You can't just close 90% of the playbook against D's as good as those and hope that your D can just keep stopping them.

An excellent point; sometimes you really have to have that Spurrier philosophy and make them beat you and keep scoring until the game is out of hand. When you stop playing to win is when you're going to lose.

 

[sjt18]

We tried to take the run away but they pounded it up our gut. That was the game where we needed a big, physical MLB in a 4-3 set.

Then you go man on every down and blitz from every angle. In a game like that, you MUST take the initiative away from the other team.

But fwiw, I didn't think UT looked horrible in the first half. It is the one game where I think the coaching was actually good and the loss goes almost entirely to player execution.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

Then you go man on every down and blitz from every angle. In a game like that, you MUST take the initiative away from the other team.

But fwiw, I didn't think UT looked horrible in the first half. It is the one game where I think the coaching was actually good and the loss goes almost entirely to player execution.

Well, maybe that is why we have a new DC.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

How about South Carolina? Do yourself a favor and don't watch the replay of that one.

The coaches were aggressive. Turnovers and penalties let them back in it. Maybe defensive coaching, but it wasn't conservative offense that messed that up

 

[TN Outlaw]

They should have never had to make those critical plays because they shouldn't have lost those leads because Jones shouldn't have tried to go into a shell.

You simply cannot get away with going that conservative against teams as good as OU and UF. Stoops is a good case study in how NOT to go too conservative.

It was also interesting to see he and his staff realize what Jones was doing. They lost ALL fear of UT's O and loaded up to stop the "safe" stuff. Moreover, they started taking HUGE chances on O because they figured that even if they turned it over UT would just punt it right back to them.

HORRIBLE game management and in game strategy.

Hence the whole part about both coaches and players are both to blame. With all the mistakes by the coaches you and I both spoke of, the team was still in a position to win both games (okl & fla) and didn't.

I blame both and even said the coaches made the same mistakes you said but I can't see how anybody can just blame one but not the other. Players shouldnt have been in that position but they were and what they did or didn't do in that position is on them.

Coaches still could've coached the game to win even with the players mistakes.

Players still could've won even with the coaches mistakes

Neither did

 

[TrueOrange]

Butch Jones and Jancek cost us the Florida game. Butch Jones and Debord cost us the Oklahoma game.

The players on this team were good enough to go 11-1. Bad coaching pryed 2 losses out of the jaws of victory.

UT lost 4 games during the season.

 

[Frivolous]

How about South Carolina? Do yourself a favor and don't watch the replay of that one.

I was thinking the same thing.

The three and out on our last possession, when all we needed was 1 first down to run out the clock, just about killed me. Run, Run, Run, Punt, give up 60 yards in 40 seconds. :banghead2:

 

[Remy]

The Florida game yes, but i do not agree that the coaches alone cost us the OU game. Our players made a lot of mistakes in that game. Penalties and the failure to take Mayd=field down when the had him dead to rights in the backfield etc

This! Mayfield continually bought time, even once pulling one foot out of the grasp of Barnett, no small feat, which has convinced me the young man has that intangible competitive spirit that coaches cannot instill. You either have it or you don't.

 

[BJWeeks]

We had 4 losses but it could have been worse. Vols played like crap against South Carolina and Missouri.

 

[rockymountainvol]

Butch Jones and Jancek cost us the Florida game. Butch Jones and Debord cost us the Oklahoma game.

The players on this team were good enough to go 11-1. Bad coaching pryed 2 losses out of the jaws of victory.

We will see if it was the Coordinators or Butch specifically. CBJ as head coach will take the brunt of this as supposed to, but I am wondering how bad he truly is, or does he redeem himself and look like a genius with the Shoop hire/Debord being in year 2.

 

[rockymountainvol]

Of course there are a number of things that contributed to each of the Vols losses last year but the constant seems to me was that once the competition found a crack in the defense the D coaches didn’t seem to have an answer; except for Bama. Bama just made plays.

In the Oklahoma game the biggest game changer was Maggit’s injury. I get the penalties that kept Sooner drives alive and the not going for a TD on 4th and goal, etc., etc. But here’s the thing once Curt went down the Vols lost contain on the right side (offensive right side). Mayfield time after time was allowed to roll right and either buy time to make throws or run for first downs. I get the other DE’s were not game ready but you guys that are coaches isn’t there something that could have been done schematically to slow Mayfield down? Spy him with an LB or something? The total inability of the Vols to keep contain to Mayfield’s right transformed him from a struggling QB in the first half to an all Big 12 QB in the second.

Same issue different symptoms in the Florida game. Gators double teamed Barnette all day and the Vols just didn’t have a credible pass rush with their front 4. Gator’s couldn’t run a lick but an emerging Grier had all day to throw and as a result gained confidence throughout the game. So you got a first year starter in his 3rd game looking over his shoulder at Harris and you essentially give him a green jersey. I mean the Florida OL gave up an all-time Gator high 45 sacks over the course of the season and The Vols got to Grier 3 times. Again I get Maggit’s hurt but can’t you schematically get more QB pressure against statistically the worst Gator OL in history?

Once Arkansas realized they could run right up the gut and our young MLB’s couldn’t get off blocks that pretty much sealed that deal. I guess when you’re just getting physically whipped there’s not a lot to be done. But hey if I had to play BOTH safeties in the box I’m taking away the Hog’s running game.

I have to say with Vereen’s coming out party at Bama the D played their most complete game of the season in MHO. On the game winning drive for Bama they just couldn’t get Coker down when they had him for a 10-12 yard loss and he scrambled back to the LOS, and then when Ridley high pointed that fade over Cam…well the writing was kind of on the wall. No one made a mistake or stupid penalty, no one failed to play fundamentals or was out of position they just got beat by some very great football plays.

The Vols now are deeper, more experienced at DE and Kirkland has stepped up at MLB so maybe these issues are fixed. If the key players on that D, Barnette, Sutton, Reeves-Maybin, and Kirkland stay healthy maybe they win all the close one’s this year. GBO

I totally agree with your analysis of all 4 games. I would add one thing though, why spy Grier on a 4th and Tennessee? That should have been a "lets bring the house down" type of blitz.

 

[Bassmaster_Vol]

We had 4 losses but it could have been worse. Vols played like crap against South Carolina and Missouri.

Mizzou seemed like a conservative game plan cause they knew that Mizzou could not score. But I agree about SC. From the 2nd quarter on, they couldn't get out of their own way. False starts, fumbles, penalties, dropped passes, defense got lazy and made SC QB look good. Really didn't look good in that game

 

[Homer J Gator]

Same issue different symptoms in the Florida game. Gators double teamed Barnette all day and the Vols just didn’t have a credible pass rush with their front 4. Gator’s couldn’t run a lick but an emerging Grier had all day to throw and as a result gained confidence throughout the game. So you got a first year starter in his 3rd game looking over his shoulder at Harris and you essentially give him a green jersey. I mean the Florida OL gave up an all-time Gator high 45 sacks over the course of the season and The Vols got to Grier 3 times. Again I get Maggit’s hurt but can’t you schematically get more QB pressure against statistically the worst Gator OL in history?

You may want to go back and rewatch this game. The Gators didn't double team Barnette the entire game. Barnette was kept in check by a true freshman and a 1AA right tackle.

Last year's Florida O-Line was one of our worst in years. The good news is our fresh and sophs have gained experience making this one of our stongest position.

 

[sjt18]

Hence the whole part about both coaches and players are both to blame. With all the mistakes by the coaches you and I both spoke of, the team was still in a position to win both games (okl & fla) and didn't.

I blame both and even said the coaches made the same mistakes you said but I can't see how anybody can just blame one but not the other. Players shouldnt have been in that position but they were and what they did or didn't do in that position is on them.

Coaches still could've coached the game to win even with the players mistakes.

Players still could've won even with the coaches mistakes

Neither did

Player mistakes are the nature of the game. A play call that doesn't work is part of the game.

We should however be able to expect an HC making millions to NOT employ strategy that makes it harder for the team to win.

Foreman took a terrible angle on that UF receiver.... but UF shouldn't have been close enough for it to matter. At the 3:20 mark of the 4th qtr.... you can see the CB and S creeping up before the snap KNOWING that on 2nd and 8 UT was going to run. A play action fade to the WR on that side would have iced the game. Instead, UT ran right into the teeth of UF's D.... gave them the ball back with plenty of time.... and lost.

 

[sjt18]

You may want to go back and rewatch this game. The Gators didn't double team Barnette the entire game. Barnette was kept in check by a true freshman and a 1AA right tackle.

Last year's Florida O-Line was one of our worst in years. The good news is our fresh and sophs have gained experience making this one of our stongest position.

You are the UF equivalent of Dobbs4Heisman.... And no, that's not a compliment.

 

[volfan102455]

2015 is the past! There has been thread after thread after thread with opinions on the losses and the wins. The same folks making the same arguments over and over again.

I get it, some of you just don't like Coach Jones, so feel the need to keep harping and pointing out anything negative about the coaching staff. Those games were lost - the continual debate will do nothing to change the outcome. It's the past!

The coaching staff have moved on. The players on Team 120 have moved on - it is time that the fans move on away from this negativity as well!

 

[TN Outlaw]

Player mistakes are the nature of the game. A play call that doesn't work is part of the game.

We should however be able to expect an HC making millions to NOT employ strategy that makes it harder for the team to win.

Foreman took a terrible angle on that UF receiver.... but UF shouldn't have been close enough for it to matter. At the 3:20 mark of the 4th qtr.... you can see the CB and S creeping up before the snap KNOWING that on 2nd and 8 UT was going to run. A play action fade to the WR on that side would have iced the game. Instead, UT ran right into the teeth of UF's D.... gave them the ball back with plenty of time.... and lost.

Well i guess we will have to just agree to disagree is all i can say. I have agreed that the coaches made bad calls (plenty of them) but ive also added the players did not make the plays to win the games even though they were in position to win those games.

You can expect coaches to make mistakes and you can expect players to make mistakes. Both are common given the human element of the game but as you said about the coaches that get paid millions i will also add you should be able to expect PLAYERS to make PLAYS when they are in position to make them. Its not like the bad calls didnt give our players a chance in the end. They still couldve stopped the 4th downs, made the FG's etc and won.

I hope your not taking it as im laying it all on the players, cause in fact im putting blame on both for their equal share in the losses. Like the Florida example you gave, he!! no Florida should not have had the ball with a chance to win, BUT they did thanks to our staff and still our players were in position to stop them after all the bonehead calls by the staff and didnt. Alot of times coaches make bad decisions but great players still make the play and we all rave about how good that coach is and vise versa.

The S Car game was going the same way and the majority of the defense was putting on another clinic of poor tackling and S Car was heading in for the go ahead score but a PLAYER made a play to win and said even though the coaches and us players have screwed up enough together to give you a chance to win this game, I am in position to stop you and take this game cause WE are gona win and he did. Georgia was the same way, CJJ AND the players let them drive that field but thankfully BR batted the ball away.

IT goes both ways, you can blame the coaches, others can blame the players lack of execution, ill blame both when either one could have won the game and neither did.

Now if you wouldve said the players lack of execution is the fault of the coach cause its his job to coach them so they can make the plays, i can kinda go along with that but the bad play calls alone did not lose those games cause our players were still in position to win the games and just didnt. Sorry for the long post my friend.

 

[sjt18]

Well i guess we will have to just agree to disagree is all i can say. I have agreed that the coaches made bad calls (plenty of them) but ive also added the players did not make the plays to win the games even though they were in position to win those games.

And you should ALWAYS expect that. Hopefully less errors.... but that's the nature of the game. In fact, that's the FUN of the college game over the NFL. The mistakes are what makes it exciting. The imperfections give the suspense and hope.

If UT had lost while Jones remained aggressive because the players made mistakes or the coaches made bad calls.... so be it. But you can NEVER crawl into a shell and hope the clock runs out before the other team figures out how to beat you. I only think that applies to two games last year.... but am convinced it applies to OU and UF.

Before that, you had the same thing with the Vandy loss and the '13 UF loss. "Managing" the game puts added pressure on the players to not make the mistakes.... that we both realize they're going to make. Putting players in a position to make the plays to win the game... let's them do what they naturally want to do. They want to attack, not do the rope-a-dope.

I hope your not taking it as im laying it all on the players, cause in fact im putting blame on both for their equal share in the losses. Like the Florida example you gave, he!! no Florida should not have had the ball with a chance to win, BUT they did thanks to our staff and still our players were in position to stop them after all the bonehead calls by the staff and didnt. Alot of times coaches make bad decisions but great players still make the play and we all rave about how good that coach is and vise versa.

I get what you are saying. I do. But you are saying that UT lost simply because of tactical mistakes. I don't believe that. I believe that those two losses and a few in the prior 2 years came because Jones employed bad game strategy/management by underestimating or underutilizing his advantages.

IT goes both ways, you can blame the coaches, others can blame the players lack of execution, ill blame both when either one could have won the game and neither did.

Exceptional plays or play calls can sometimes save a coach from poor strategy.... but it shouldn't have to.

Now if you wouldve said the players lack of execution is the fault of the coach cause its his job to coach them so they can make the plays, i can kinda go along with that but the bad play calls alone did not lose those games cause our players were still in position to win the games and just didnt. Sorry for the long post my friend.

Coaches and players should always be improving. I don't question that at all. If Foreman keeps his outside leverage on UF's last score then its game over. As the season went along, I personally think Foreman got MUCH better.

Execution is a player and coach responsibility.

I know that UT like every other major program has people who do self-scouting for weaknesses and tendencies. These are probably the most important guys that we never hear about. Playcallers and players use this info to improve along with film study.

The strategic component.... the decision to play soft on D or aggressive.... the decision to stretch a D packed on the LOS late in the game.... the decision to go for one or two.... the decision to kick the FG or risk a 4th and short.... That all falls on the HC.

Jones, not the other coaches or the players, has to be better than he was vs OU and UF. It is unlikely UT will ever have the talent to simply dominate teams that good at the end of a game.

 

[sjt18]

2015 is the past! There has been thread after thread after thread with opinions on the losses and the wins. The same folks making the same arguments over and over again.

The best thing about past mistakes is that we don't have to repeat them. The worst part.... is many times we do.

I get it, some of you just don't like Coach Jones, so feel the need to keep harping and pointing out anything negative about the coaching staff. Those games were lost - the continual debate will do nothing to change the outcome. It's the past!

Nothing to do with "liking" Jones. In fact, "liking" him has nothing to do with MOST criticisms of Jones. Almost everyone here wants Jones to succeed and be greater than Neyland.

Those who refuse to learn from the past.... are doomed to repeat it. Is that what you want to see?

The coaching staff have moved on. The players on Team 120 have moved on - it is time that the fans move on away from this negativity as well!

No one forces you to participate and if you are too sensitive to handle a discussion of problems because it makes you feel "negative" then maybe you should consider not discussing it. BUT I can assure you that neither I nor TN Outlaw have anything against Jones or the staff. We hope they improve.... and improve more.... and improve more. We don't pretend they haven't done anything well or overcome very significant challenges.... why should you pretend that any discussion of a past shortcoming is "negative"?

 

[TN Outlaw]

I'm not saying that we lost those games simply on tactical mistakes. In fact I do agree with you that Jones and Co used some horrible strategy and in doin so drained the confidence in out players and put our team in a bad position and put our opponents in a position to win a game they had no biz winning.

I'm just also adding to that with after all those horrible coaching decisions and poor strategy that we had 11 players with victory still in their grasp and the ability to win those games in their hands. No matter how bad a spot they were put in, no matter what bad calls were called prior, no matter any other variable, the players could've saved the day and won those 2 games and didn't. They had an uphill climb to do so thanks to our very own coaches and it should never be that way but it was still doable. The more ive pondered it the coaches are more to blame for the losses but the players also carry blame for their part IMO.

I like what u said yesterday, a coach should never make it harder on his players. It's a coaches job to put his players in the best position to win games period. I can name mult games to where our staff made decisions that hurt our teams chances of winning. We shouldn't expect that and Jones is going to have to do much better than what he has shown so far in that reguard and I have faith he will. I also think we will see improvement just based on the staff being better now than what we had.

Foreman started off so rough last year being out of position but he improved a lot as the season wore on. Same for Eman. Looked like diff players toward the end of the year.

 

[TN Outlaw]

Sorry if our discussion hurt somebody's feelings. I'm pulling for this staff to do well. They do well, we do well. It's the offseason and there's nothing better to do than discuss football and how we interpreted this past season. The goods and the bads. Good discussion IMO.