Bracketology Update

#126
#126
Darth_Vol said:
and #2 Baylor is getting their butts kicked in the Big 12 Final. Looks like UConn will have little resistance to a five-peat.....
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As long as the women's basketball game lingers at its current level of popularity, and as long as they have a proven Hall of Fame coach, UConn will always be in this position. There's just not enough talent to go around. There's more than there used to be, but UConn is above it. Basically, due to the sport's current level of popularity - further in from the fringe than it once was but not at all a staple like football, men's basketball, etc - and the tendency to play for a great program rather than stay close to home, coupled of course the fact they have a great coach, and Connecticut simply will stay above until Geno retires or leaves. He has cemented that at this point.

For what it's worth, Tennessee would be in the same boat had things not taken such a turn with PS. It's not at all a slight on Holly, either, just an observation. Pat would have had the Lady Vols back in the Final Four again, and perhaps would have gotten some recruits to come here that we missed on - she would definitely have kept them at the top of the pecking order, had she retained her health. All the more reason that UConn's continued success haunts the Lady Vol faithful. We were the program that best rivaled them, but our legs were taken out from under us and we've never recovered (not so far anyway). Just a shame. We had the best games with that bunch.
 
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#128
#128
Hail wv! :).

In all seriousness Mike Carey is a massively underrated coach. Guy has just built the program up from the complete dumpster fire that existed when he took over.
 
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#129
#129
maxvolfan said:
We will never know but i think the coaches of those SEC teams are better and the other teams doesnt have a Ronnie Williams, a Sofie Cunningham or slightly better talent to give them a challenge. I might be way off base but hey i like to debate possiblities.
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I think that UConn would have no problems against a team with a Ronnie Williams or a Sophie Cunningham because they routinely beat teams that have 5 players of equal caliber on the court at the same time. If there's one thing they do remarkably well, it's shut down the opposing team's big weapon.

The way to weaken them is not for them to play in a stronger conference; it's to kidnap Geno and send him to Jupiter.
 
#130
#130
travis929 said:
Impressive showing by WVU. Hope their win doesn't drop us to an 8...
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Tynice Martin, who was named tournament MOP after averaging just over 27 points per game, was the #100 ranked recruit on Hoopgurlz. That would be 51 spots behind MeMe Jackson...
 
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#131
#131
Voltopia said:
There's just not enough talent to go around. There's more than there used to be, but UConn is above it.
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I actually don't think it's a lack of talented players that's the problem. There are plenty. I think where the sport is lacking is talented coaches. I see rosters with more than enough good players to do damage but coaching staffs that haven't evolved in 10+ years.

I have heard more coaches say they were moving to a motion offense in the past 5 years than ever before(Holly Warlick & Dawn Staley being 2 of them). Why do you think that is? Everybody wants to be a champion but nobody wants to put the work in. Yes, there are some things on a basketball court that UConn can do that no one else can.

However, there are things on the court that UConn does that every single WCBB team should be doing no matter whether you are DI, DII, DIII, top 25, or 334th and they just aren't. You DO NOT need to be a high school all-american to dive for a loose ball. You DO NOT need to be a highly rated recruit to put your hands up on defense. Also, there is no rules to my knowledge on putting up extra shots after practice. I am pretty sure that is welcomed by all coaches irregardless of your pedigree coming in to the program.

If the best team in the country is doing all the little things what in the world makes these other teams players think they don't have to? Coaching. Let's face it AD's @ most colleges aren't walking down to the office of the WCBB staff and demanding excellence. They really just don't care that much. They probably only talk to them if there is a scandal or maybe at a staff meeting. The standard largely must be set by the staff. I just don't think a lot of these coaches are growing as they should be. The stewards of women's college basketball are the coaches not the players.

As we have seen this year with teams like Ohio State & Louisville you can pump all the talent you want into the sport but you if you don't have coaches that know what they are doing and are willing to adapt it really won't matter. If South Carolina doesn't make it to the FF this year I would put them in that boat as well.
 
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#132
#132
Nuyoika said:
I actually don't think it's a lack of talented players that's the problem. There are plenty. I think where the sport is lacking is talented coaches. I see rosters with more than enough good players to do damage but coaching staffs that haven't evolved in 10+ years.

I have heard more coaches say they were moving to a motion offense in the past 5 years than ever before(Holly Warlick & Dawn Staley being 2 of them). Why do you think that is? Everybody wants to be a champion but nobody wants to put the work in. Yes, there are some things on a basketball court that UConn can do that no one else can.

However, there are things on the court that UConn does that every single WCBB team should be doing no matter whether you are DI, DII, DIII, top 25, or 334th and they just aren't. You DO NOT need to be a high school all-american to dive for a loose ball. You DO NOT need to be a highly rated recruit to put your hands up on defense. Also, there is no rules to my knowledge on putting up extra shots after practice. I am pretty sure that is welcomed by all coaches irregardless of your pedigree coming in to the program.

If the best team in the country is doing all the little things what in the world makes these other teams players think they don't have to? Coaching. Let's face it AD's @ most colleges aren't walking down to the office of the WCBB staff and demanding excellence. They really just don't care that much. They probably only talk to them if there is a scandal or maybe at a staff meeting. The standard largely must be set by the staff. I just don't think a lot of these coaches are growing as they should be. The stewards of women's college basketball are the coaches not the players.

As we have seen this year with teams like Ohio State & Louisville you can pump all the talent you want into the sport but you if you don't have coaches that know what they are doing and are willing to adapt it really won't matter. If South Carolina doesn't make it to the FF this year I would put them in that boat as well.
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Well written point of view!
 
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#133
#133
As Tynice Martin showed, you also don't have to be a top 10 recruit to be an impact player. Lamenting the fact that Tennessee doesn't have talent at the guard spots because Reynolds, Middleton and Jackson were not top 10 recruits just absolves the coaching staff of the responsibility for developing these players. Reynolds in particular should be much, much better than she is now, and that is 100% on Holly for not holding her accountable to get better.

That's why I'm not going to assume that things will be better next year with a couple of top 10 guards. The question is whether or not Holly does her part to prepare them for the college game and hold them accountable to become better players...and based on her track record, I wouldn't put money on it. I expect them to be like Jaime...a very talented player who came along slowly in spite of the coaching, not because of it.
 
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#134
#134
All in fun, but espn has West Virginia hosting with Stanford in their bracket. Baylor still a 2 seed. Lady vols in marylands bracket

Congrats West Virginia on the run in the conference tournament.
 
#135
#135
Voltopia said:
As long as the women's basketball game lingers at its current level of popularity, and as long as they have a proven Hall of Fame coach, UConn will always be in this position. There's just not enough talent to go around. There's more than there used to be, but UConn is above it. Basically, due to the sport's current level of popularity - further in from the fringe than it once was but not at all a staple like football, men's basketball, etc - and the tendency to play for a great program rather than stay close to home, coupled of course the fact they have a great coach, and Connecticut simply will stay above until Geno retires or leaves. He has cemented that at this point.

For what it's worth, Tennessee would be in the same boat had things not taken such a turn with PS. It's not at all a slight on Holly, either, just an observation. Pat would have had the Lady Vols back in the Final Four again, and perhaps would have gotten some recruits to come here that we missed on - she would definitely have kept them at the top of the pecking order, had she retained her health. All the more reason that UConn's continued success haunts the Lady Vol faithful. We were the program that best rivaled them, but our legs were taken out from under us and we've never recovered (not so far anyway). Just a shame. We had the best games with that bunch.
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We'd probably be better than we are now--but we wouldn't be beating UConn. PS was 0-4 against Geno in championship games. Geno was a much better offensive coach than PS--that's why he was 4-0 in title games against us, and he for sure didn't have the most talent in those four games--certainly not Kara Lawson's last year.

And, yea, it sad to see that some Vol fans still carp about UConn's conference and regular season schedule, as if it means anything. We're eating Geno's dirt and will continue to until we get a first-rate coach.
 
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#136
#136
Nuyoika said:
I actually don't think it's a lack of talented players that's the problem. There are plenty. I think where the sport is lacking is talented coaches. I see rosters with more than enough good players to do damage but coaching staffs that haven't evolved in 10+ years.

I have heard more coaches say they were moving to a motion offense in the past 5 years than ever before(Holly Warlick & Dawn Staley being 2 of them). Why do you think that is? Everybody wants to be a champion but nobody wants to put the work in. Yes, there are some things on a basketball court that UConn can do that no one else can.

However, there are things on the court that UConn does that every single WCBB team should be doing no matter whether you are DI, DII, DIII, top 25, or 334th and they just aren't. You DO NOT need to be a high school all-american to dive for a loose ball. You DO NOT need to be a highly rated recruit to put your hands up on defense. Also, there is no rules to my knowledge on putting up extra shots after practice. I am pretty sure that is welcomed by all coaches irregardless of your pedigree coming in to the program.

If the best team in the country is doing all the little things what in the world makes these other teams players think they don't have to? Coaching. Let's face it AD's @ most colleges aren't walking down to the office of the WCBB staff and demanding excellence. They really just don't care that much. They probably only talk to them if there is a scandal or maybe at a staff meeting. The standard largely must be set by the staff. I just don't think a lot of these coaches are growing as they should be. The stewards of women's college basketball are the coaches not the players.

As we have seen this year with teams like Ohio State & Louisville you can pump all the talent you want into the sport but you if you don't have coaches that know what they are doing and are willing to adapt it really won't matter. If South Carolina doesn't make it to the FF this year I would put them in that boat as well.
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Well said.

I will add one major difference-maker when it comes to coaching. Those coaches who are willing to routinely bend or break the NCAA's limits of time players are allowed to do basketball-related activity are often the ones whose players look like they are spending more time in the gym. Because they are.

Special programs for athletes can come into play as well, such as independent studies programs that allow student/athletes to customize their schedules, freeing up more time to get up shots.

People aren't supposed to talk about such things because they're accused of making excuses if they do, but it's a real issue that has obvious implications for players that receive less coaching time.

All that said, I also know that there are some coaches who, even if they had no time limits for practice and a roster teeming with eager students, would still not use the time wisely.
 
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#137
#137
WVU05UT09 said:
Hail wv! :).

In all seriousness Mike Carey is a massively underrated coach. Guy has just built the program up from the complete dumpster fire that existed when he took over.
Click to expand...

I imagine that it would be difficult to recruit to WV, but probably not any different from Mississippi State or Ole Miss. WV does have to top 100 recruits coming in next year and one commit for 2018.

Just shows you what good coaching can do.
 
#138
#138
I actually think WVU has it easier than most but not all SEC schools including UT in basketball recruitment due to the proximity to the major cities of the east coast which are hot beds for basketball talent. You have to remember that WVU is located 5 minutes from the Pennsylvania border in northeast WV and not centrally located in the state.

WVU is less than four hours from Pittsburgh (<1 hr), Washington, Cleveland and less than six hours from New York, Philadelphia, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Norfolk-Hampton Roads, Richmond.
 
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#139
#139
lvocd said:
Well said.

I will add one major difference-maker when it comes to coaching. Those coaches who are willing to routinely bend or break the NCAA's limits of time players are allowed to do basketball-related activity are often the ones whose players look like they are spending more time in the gym. Because they are.

Special programs for athletes can come into play as well, such as independent studies programs that allow student/athletes to customize their schedules, freeing up more time to get up shots.

People aren't supposed to talk about such things because they're accused of making excuses if they do, but it's a real issue that has obvious implications for players that receive less coaching time.

All that said, I also know that there are some coaches who, even if they had no time limits for practice and a roster teeming with eager students, would still not use the time wisely.
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My take is that the best of the best are going to have more opportunities to to get in the gym and get good coaching year round no matter who their college coach is because other organizations will seek them out anyway... USA basketball being the main culprit. So yes the very best players will just get better no matter what.

As far as coaches bending or breaking the rules if you are a crappy coach who hasn't evolved and doesn't plan to you could have double the time with your players that a Tara V., Muffet M., or a Geno A. would get and it wouldn't matter. The point I was making is that I honestly just don't think there is expected to be a winning culture when it comes to WCBB at most schools and the ones that do have that culture manifested that out of the staff that is there. I sincerely doubt it came from the top down where someone in the athletics department was harping on them to get to a certain level.

Those who are at the top and stayed there have found a winning formula all their own. The best of the best built it... it didn't exist. Some of them even built it in spite of the administration they were under. I'm not saying every WCBB coach can be a Pat or Geno but I am pretty sure they can make their kids run instead of walk or jog up the court. They can emphasize fundamentals. They can treat a walk on just like a 5 star. I think that's where you have to start.

I don't believe you can just change the offense or recruit more 5 stars. These coaches have to start looking at themselves as well and either pick up new skills or find the best assistants to help you. You don't have to know it all but you get 3 paid assistants in DI so you should at least collect some offensive, defensive, or tactical geniuses to help you out. I mean if you are selling the dream to these recruits I would hope you have the blueprints or at least the recon team to get the blueprints you need to help them achieve what you sold on the recruiting trail.
 
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#140
#140
mike099 said:
All in fun, but espn has West Virginia hosting with Stanford in their bracket. Baylor still a 2 seed. Lady vols in marylands bracket

Congrats West Virginia on the run in the conference tournament.
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That would suck-- for the LVs and Stanford. Could set up a short run for UT and a long distance to travel for Stanford. WVU showed up when it mattered, though. The LVs had a chance to do the same, and if they had, they could be hosting.
 
#141
#141
LA Vol said:
That would suck-- for the LVs and Stanford. Could set up a short run for UT and a long distance to travel for Stanford. WVU showed up when it mattered, though. The LVs had a chance to do the same, and if they had, they could be hosting.
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Correct - you get what you play for

When you play crappy in games you should win you get penalized.
 
#142
#142
armchair said:
We'd probably be better than we are now--but we wouldn't be beating UConn. PS was 0-4 against Geno in championship games. Geno was a much better offensive coach than PS--that's why he was 4-0 in title games against us, and he for sure didn't have the most talent in those four games--certainly not Kara Lawson's last year.

And, yea, it sad to see that some Vol fans still carp about UConn's conference and regular season schedule, as if it means anything. We're eating Geno's dirt and will continue to until we get a first-rate coach.
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Geno was and is much better at running an offense, I agree. We might have beaten UConn one of those years. We might not. I think we would have been much stronger; we don't even really know when the disease first started impact Summitt or change how she was handling her duties. I think she would have handled Meighan Simmons differently for one, and would have gotten the Harrison squad to the FF (barring the injury, I mean). She would have shaped those competitors into teams that would compete.

I get what you mean about the schedule. To be fair, it used to be more of a joke. It's gotten a lot stronger over the years, though I still think their in-conference play isn't exactly gang busters.
 
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#143
#143
armchair said:
We'd probably be better than we are now--but we wouldn't be beating UConn. PS was 0-4 against Geno in championship games. Geno was a much better offensive coach than PS--that's why he was 4-0 in title games against us, and he for sure didn't have the most talent in those four games--certainly not Kara Lawson's last year.

And, yea, it sad to see that some Vol fans still carp about UConn's conference and regular season schedule, as if it means anything. We're eating Geno's dirt and will continue to until we get a first-rate coach.
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You say he was 4-0 in the title games against PS because he was the better offensive coach. So what happened in the games he lost to PS? He didn't care or try too hard because they weren't title games?
 
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#144
#144
armchair said:
We'd probably be better than we are now--but we wouldn't be beating UConn. PS was 0-4 against Geno in championship games. Geno was a much better offensive coach than PS--that's why he was 4-0 in title games against us, and he for sure didn't have the most talent in those four games--certainly not Kara Lawson's last year.

And, yea, it sad to see that some Vol fans still carp about UConn's conference and regular season schedule, as if it means anything. We're eating Geno's dirt and will continue to until we get a first-rate coach.
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They would love to have you over on the boneyard.
 
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#147
#147
When it comes to my team, I would rather err on the side of slobber than negativity. Everything isn't sunshine & rainbows, but neither is everything darkness, wailing & gnashing of teeth.

But to be fair, some of the best content on here comes from those leaning toward anti-HW.

#GLV
 
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#149
#149
I do not like where Charlie Creme has us at the moment. Lexington Bracket with us possibly playing Maryland early with UK, Syrcuse/Washington and ND in our path also. Brutal.
 
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#150
#150
If they can get passed the first two and make it to Lexington don't you think the LVs could get more fans there than anybody else!
 
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