Bob Shoop and his "Magic Show" defense

#1
TechnoVol

TechnoVol

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#1
I know... injuries have been bad but good grief our defense is so out of position way too often.
 
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#3
#3
I do believe the secondary skill coach is the one glaring upgrade we need. Then maybe line backers. I find it hard to give up on Strip yet. Absolutely love that guy and think he gets a mulligan this year.

Yeah I know people want DeBoards head but I don't see it when you look at our offensive production on the year. It's been difficult to look at at times but our offensive stats aren't terrible. Now our defensive stats....
 
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#4
#4
Players out of position is a key indicator of the problem, which is very well described by UneducatedGuess in the OP of this thread: http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/268123-shallow-vols.html .

Losing our first string (and our second string, and even our third string at DT) means that our best players aren't playing, true. But what many don't realize is that it means our players who got the VAST majority of the reps in Spring and Fall camp, as well as throughout the season, aren't playing.

We are not only dropping in talent when we go to the bare cupboard, we're also dropping in training and experience and coordination.

We are decimated on defense. Folks acknowledge that, but then scratch their heads and say, "yeah, but it's more than just losing those key players."

Yeah, it is. It's losing the team synchronization that comes with all those hundreds and hundreds of reps they took together.

Cohesive team play (TEAM play) comes from hours and hours working together. You can largely overcome that with the absence of one or two or even three out of eleven. We're missing as many as eight of our defensive two-deep in many of the games this year.

We have some kid off the sidewalk trying to play lead tuba in our orchestra, a friend of the sick drummer picking up his sticks, and the janitor on first seat alto sax, and we're wondering why not just those three, but the whole band sounds off?

UneducatedGuess did a great job explaining where we are on defense. Pity more folks here won't put down their pitchforks and learn from him.
 
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#5
#5
Yeah i understand the injuries but good grief. It looks like none of our players have been developed. Its year 4 and we have no linebackers that can play. None of our corners know how to turn and look for a ball. We cant tackle and look lost. Its sunseri level bad.
 
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#6
#6
Any time a freshman or any player listed 3rd or more on the depth chart is starting or even playing(other than clean up or ST) due to injuries, that means you have a lot of injuries at least in that particular(in Butch's voice) position.
 
#7
#7
Our base defense is a 4-2-5. Without a quality DL, there is no way to stop the run.
 
#8
#8
The secondary and linebacker coach have really underachieved this year. I will give the DL coach a pass because of the injuries at DT.
 
#10
#10
If by magic you mean he can make any semblance of defending the run just disappear at will then Bob is Merlin Jr.
 
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#11
#11
VFL-82-JP said:
Players out of position is a key indicator of the problem, which is very well described by UneducatedGuess in the OP of this thread: http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/268123-shallow-vols.html .

Losing our first string (and our second string, and even our third string at DT) means that our best players aren't playing, true. But what many don't realize is that it means our players who got the VAST majority of the reps in Spring and Fall camp, as well as throughout the season, aren't playing.

We are not only dropping in talent when we go to the bare cupboard, we're also dropping in training and experience and knowledge of the playbook.

We are decimated on defense. Folks acknowledge that, but then scratch their heads and say, "yeah, but it's more than just losing those key players."

Yeah, it is. It's losing the team synchronization that comes with all those hundreds and hundreds of reps they took together. We have some kid off the sidewalk trying to play lead tuba in our orchestra, and we're wondering why not just him, but the whole band sounds off?

UneducatedGuess did a great job explaining where we are on defense. Pity more folks here won't put down their pitchforks and learn from him.
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To me its not unreasonable to expect that 4 years in, guys like malik foreman dont know to turn and look for the ball. Or to expect guys like dillon bates and gavin bryant, both solid recruits who have been here a few years, to be able to contribute. If you say "theyre busts" , who recruited them? Who is developing them? Injuries certainly play a role, but some of what im seeing points towards coaching staff.
 
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#12
#12
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we have 7 original starters on defense playing (or at least in the 2 deep rotation) in the UK game until TK went down? We were without JRM and 3 DT's. I get team chemistry and we are playing DE's at DT, but I struggle to comprehend how we can look that bad with 7 starters against UK. Yesterday was an extension of that but throw in TK on the sideline too. Let's not forget that Jumper was 2nd string and has now played the majority of the year. Clearly he's not JRM, but we can't say he hasn't had the reps, so that leaves us with 3 to 4 players out on D.

Being down 3 to 4 is significant, but is that the only explanation for what we've seen the last 2 weeks? I seriously struggle with that is the only reason we've looked so bad.
 
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#13
#13
One bright spot, everyone in a uniform got playing time this year. Hopefully that will help down the road. I mean when they say we have 65 returning starters.......
 
#14
#14
Freak said:
It's true. Our safeties seem to get completely lost at times.
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I must be the only one that realizes the inexperience and rotation issues this defense has had, because safety and CB has been just as bad of a injury issue as the DL. Remember when Randolph started as a Freshman? people on here were trashing him and the others on getting burnt by the opposing team's WRs and TEs. Geesh guys, I really think most of you are trying too hard to downplay to lack of experience/leadership this defense has with all the injuries. Shoop has done whatever he can to get this team ready, but you can't rush experience and exposure....it takes time and this year was just not UT's year. You can't just throw a body out there and say........Play! I wish it was that easy, but it is not.........it is what it is, and ignoring the facts, does not change the facts.

GBO.........beat Candy Land!
 
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#16
#16
FlyFishnVol said:
I must be the only one that realizes the inexperience and rotation issues this defense has had, because safety and CB has been just as bad of a injury issue as the DL. Remember when Randolph started as a Freshman? people on here were trashing him and the others on getting burnt by the opposing team's WRs and TEs. Geesh guys, I really think most of you are trying too hard to downplay to lack of experience/leadership this defense has with all the injuries. Shoop has done whatever he can to get this team ready, but you can't rush experience and exposure....it takes time and this year was just not UT's year. You can't just throw a body out there and say........Play! I wish it was that easy, but it is not.........it is what it is, and ignoring the facts, does not change the facts.

GBO.........beat Candy Land!
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Moseley at cb has been here for years. Foreman has been here for years. Todd kelly has been here for years. Gaulden has. I can understand throwing Buchanan out there as a true freshman and having some issues, but you cant ignore all the fundamental mistakes going on by all these guys. Not impressed with coach martinez or coach thig.
 
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#17
#17
We need to recruit 10 defensive Tackles 5 linebackers and 5 DB's this class. Or 20 defensive tackles
 
#18
#18
Sad you people bashing don't have a clue how a defense works. If the front line can't stop then the back end must cheat the run guess what happens then.
 
#19
#19
It's even more concerning that Penn State took a major step forward when Shoop left.

Possible issues.
Obviously, injuries. However, the defense still looked bad even with the full roster. Confusion has been the key word.

Defensive staff chemistry. A D-coordinator should be allowed to pick his staff. The DBs have gotten worse through the year. Gaulden, Foreman and even Sutton were constantly out of position and often beaten deep. Martinez needs to go.

Player development. I don't think Shoop played his depth early in the year or developed them well. They couldn't get the #1 juco D tackle ready at a desperate position of need? Mosley never got a snap. Surely he would be an upgrade with his 345 pounds to stop the run.

Buchanan over Osborne? I was sure TKjr and Abernathy would be an upgrade. Nope.
Bates, Bryant, Ausitm Smith, and Bituli? Seriously, these guys should be contributing.
 
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#21
#21
Dline has been a disappointment. It all starts up front. Yeah Barnett gets some rush from the outside, but the interior is soft. Secondary would look better if there was more push from the middle. Linebacker play has been very poor since Maybin and Kirkland went out. I don't think Kirkland is 100%. Doesn't look like he's flying around out there. This year has exposed a serious need for quality depth. From the looks of this recruiting class i can't see where they're really addressing it either.
 
#23
#23
JohnD13 said:
Sad you people bashing don't have a clue how a defense works. If the front line can't stop then the back end must cheat the run guess what happens then.
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Its been happening all year. Even before all the dline injuries the secondary has been lost. Nice try.
 
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