Bob Sanders

#28
#28
wow. i knew that too. only thing i can think of was thinking about his 36 yd run. still i put 113 ahead.
 
#29
#29
volfanbill said:
one super bowl victory does not escalate peyton into the greatest ever. it does get him closer. i'm questioning who did more of the playcalling. you can't guarantee that he changed his ideas and went simple and i can't prove that the coaching staff did more playcalling. That's why i want to see next year. I've read some people talk about simplifying the plays because of the weather, but they did the same thing against the pats two weeks ago. If it is peyton playing smarter, then even more to him. but i don't know that, and I don't see how you can know that either.

About peyton not throwing for 300 yds w/ 3 tds blah blah blah. addai rushing for 77 and getting 66 receiving yds is more mvp worthy than the the numbers peyton put up IMO. rhodes rushing for 113 w/ a TD was more worthy IMO. Sanders great play on D, cumulated w/ his pick six was more worthy IMO. i'm not trashing peyton, I just don't feel he deserved the MVP.
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sanders didn't have the pick six.
 
#31
#31
volfanbill said:
one super bowl victory does not escalate peyton into the greatest ever. it does get him closer. i'm questioning who did more of the playcalling. you can't guarantee that he changed his ideas and went simple and i can't prove that the coaching staff did more playcalling. That's why i want to see next year. I've read some people talk about simplifying the plays because of the weather, but they did the same thing against the pats two weeks ago. If it is peyton playing smarter, then even more to him. but i don't know that, and I don't see how you can know that either.

About peyton not throwing for 300 yds w/ 3 tds blah blah blah. addai rushing for 77 and getting 66 receiving yds is more mvp worthy than the the numbers peyton put up IMO. rhodes rushing for 113 w/ a TD was more worthy IMO. Sanders great play on D, cumulated w/ his pick six was more worthy IMO. i'm not trashing peyton, I just don't feel he deserved the MVP.
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that was one of the main poinst of several articles written about the "new Peyton" this year, several of which you can read today.....John Clayton has one on espn.com, Peter king in his monday morning qb in si.com etc.......it was also widely discussed on nfl countdown on espn prior too and after the game yesterday. i don't think it's uncommon knowldege that peyton has completel autonomy to call/change plays etc...at the line. he's given a set a of plays, maked a call and based on what the d is showing, he makes changes if necessary. the big think now a days is that he's much more likely to check to a run if the safeties are playing off, which is why you saw so many runs the past two games.

as far as knowing......you are technicaly righ. none of us were in the huddle. but even tom moore has said that he calls the plays....i think it's ok to give peyton some credit on this.

as for the mvp....i don't disagree with you...rhodes, addai or sanders could have gotten easily, deservedly so. but i dont' have any heartburn with manning getting it.
 
#32
#32
Doesn't really answer the question of is Manning making the calls or not but this is from ESPN (Clayton)

Although the Bears' defense might have been content holding Harrison (five catches for 59 yards) and Wayne (only two catches) relatively in check, Manning was still able to pick the Bears apart. He completed 10 passes to halfback Joseph Addai and worked short passes all day. When he'd catch the Bears in a Cover 1 defense, he'd run the ball.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs06/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2754492
 
#33
#33
From SI.com:
The two-time NFL MVP was 25-of-38 for 247 yards and a touchdown pass, keeping the Bears on their heels with his play calling at the line of scrimmage as he rallied the Colts to a 29-17 victory.
SI.com - 2006 NFL Playoffs - Manning's elusive ring comes with an MVP award - Sunday February 4, 2007 11:56PM

From CBS.sportsline.com
Against the Bears, he showed why he's so good. Manning called every single play at the line of scrimmage, according to Colts offensive coordinator Tom Moore.
Indianapolis Colts, Peyton Manning, National Football League - CBS SportsLine.com

so there you go...for whateve that's worth........:thumbsup:
 
#34
#34
thanks for the article jakez. like i said, it was going out on a limb making that observation. he's conquered just about everything i criticized him for. being able to dump the ball off and trusting the run more was one of my biggest complaints. congrats to him. he has finally learned the art of game management. as i said two weeks ago when they won the AFC, if only he could've done it 10 years ago.
 
#35
#35
volfanbill said:
thanks for the article jakez. like i said, it was going out on a limb making that observation. he's conquered just about everything i criticized him for. being able to dump the ball off and trusting the run more was one of my biggest complaints. congrats to him. he has finally learned the art of game management. as i said two weeks ago when they won the AFC, if only he could've done it 10 years ago.
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yeah......but it doesn't matter, so long as you get it done. I don't know that it would have mattered 10 years ago or not...up until the last two years, their defense was not championship caliber.......

ask John Elway. 5 times he visited the SB. 3 time loser. and wins two in a row in his last two seasons......why?......the broncos finally had a running game and a defense.
 
#36
#36
jakez4ut said:
yeah......but it doesn't matter, so long as you get it done. I don't know that it would have mattered 10 years ago or not...up until the last two years, their defense was not championship caliber.......

ask John Elway. 5 times he visited the SB. 3 time loser. and wins two in a row in his last two seasons......why?......the broncos finally had a running game and a defense.
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lol.. i meant win it all ten years ago as a Vol. he definitely had the running game and defense his senior season.
 
#37
#37
volfanbill said:
lol.. i meant win it all ten years ago as a Vol. he definitely had the running game and defense his senior season.
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:p ah.........oops

yeah, but even then, i think our biggest problem was still on defense. we couldn't stop FL to save our lives. the best game PM ever played against them wsa in 96 but we spotted them too many points early on. i'll never forget that 4th and 11 play in the 1st qtr for a TD...and you just knew. he actually had a really good game against them that day, and our D let us down early in that one. oh, and lets not forget that FL didn't exactly suck either.

the other two....95...could've done with out the picks. 97.....eh.......and 94, he didn't play the whole game, was a freshman and the whole offense stunk and we couldn't stop 'em.

he had 1 good game against 'em (96)...and still lost. but for that one, it really wasn't his fault.

but you know what, up until then, our nemesis was Bama. FL was also, but it was still forming...we had only lost what, 2-3 in a row to 'em at that point...we were in a 10 year non winning streak against bama...and he went down there and beat the crap out of 'em. so the 'big game' thing has always been a mystery for me. looking back on it now, yeah, he couldn't beat florida...sure, ok. but at the time, Bama was still a BIG game. and he was 2-1 against them, ended the losing/non winning streak....people seem to have forgotten that. i mean think back to that game in 95 against Bama......remember how that felt......41-14. Manning to Kent on play 1. it didn't get any better than that at the time.

he also won an SEC title, the first in 7 years at TN, and played for a possible NT that year as well.

i'm really not one of these peyton worshipers, believe me, but when people talk about him at TN, the only thing they say is "he didn't beat FL and he didn't win a national title and he didn't win the heismen". He really did accomplish alot though.....and i think it gets lost sometimes when these discussions get going.
 
#38
#38
i think bama went down a lot when manning beat them, but i understand your point. When i argue that he hadn't won the big one, or he couldn't beat florida, etc, i wasn't taking anything away from him being a great qb. Instead i think too many people are lumping him into the greatest ever category waaaaay too early. Last night he started opening the door on entering that category for me. still a ways to go to get in one of my list, but he's getting there. I'm just tired of all the peyton mancrushes and people telling me i have to like him because he's a former vol. that and he ticked me off blaming his O-line for your steelers sending six and seven men after him last year. and blaming his defense earlier this year for their failures. i can't stand him calling them out in the national media like that. sickens me.
 
#39
#39
volfanbill said:
i think bama went down a lot when manning beat them, but i understand your point. When i argue that he hadn't won the big one, or he couldn't beat florida, etc, i wasn't taking anything away from him being a great qb. Instead i think too many people are lumping him into the greatest ever category waaaaay too early. Last night he started opening the door on entering that category for me. still a ways to go to get in one of my list, but he's getting there. I'm just tired of all the peyton mancrushes and people telling me i have to like him because he's a former vol. that and he ticked me off blaming his O-line for your steelers sending six and seven men after him last year. and blaming his defense earlier this year for their failures. i can't stand him calling them out in the national media like that. sickens me.
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fair enough. i agree that the discussion on the greatest ever is a bit early. that discussion should be postponed til he retires. i do think though before it's all said and done, he'll be in the HOF and considered among the best qb's to ever play. i wouldn't say it TODAY......but the story is being written as we speak.

as to the comments about his calling out other players etc..i think you're right. i remember watching a game a few years ago and he was ripping in to someone on the sideline......and i couldn't help but think about Dan Marino....he used to do the same thing and a lot of the guys that played with him would tell you later that they hated playing with Dan. and i could see the same thing happening to PM. i think, just as he has with the game management, he has learned a lesson in regards to "team sport". it was fairly evident the past couple of weeks when he was being asked about his legacy....and he couldn't stop saying "team"....i think the light bulb has come on for him. He can't do it alone, and there actually other players on the team capable of also putting the game on their shoulders, whether it be himself, a WR, a RB, or their Defense. something i'm not convinced he really thought in the past. in the past, i think he just put it all on his shoulders, expected to be the guy and when it didn't happen..........there had to be a reason.......
 
#40
#40
jakez4ut said:
fair enough. i agree that the discussion on the greatest ever is a bit early. that discussion should be postponed til he retires. i do think though before it's all said and done, he'll be in the HOF and considered among the best qb's to ever play. i wouldn't say it TODAY......but the story is being written as we speak.

as to the comments about his calling out other players etc..i think you're right. i remember watching a game a few years ago and he was ripping in to someone on the sideline......and i couldn't help but think about Dan Marino....he used to do the same thing and a lot of the guys that played with him would tell you later that they hated playing with Dan. and i could see the same thing happening to PM. i think, just as he has with the game management, he has learned a lesson in regards to "team sport". it was fairly evident the past couple of weeks when he was being asked about his legacy....and he couldn't stop saying "team"....i think the light bulb has come on for him. He can't do it alone, and there actually other players on the team capable of also putting the game on their shoulders, whether it be himself, a WR, a RB, or their Defense. something i'm not convinced he really thought in the past. in the past, i think he just put it all on his shoulders, expected to be the guy and when it didn't happen..........there had to be a reason.......
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very well said again jakez. i did notice for the first time i can recall in his NFL career i read some articles w/ peyton referring to "our team", "my teamates" and what not. it wasn't just me, i, me, i. maybe he has finally solved that too.
 
#41
#41
volfanbill said:
very well said again jakez. i did notice for the first time i can recall in his NFL career i read some articles w/ peyton referring to "our team", "my teamates" and what not. it wasn't just me, i, me, i. maybe he has finally solved that too.
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If he has, he and the colts will be better off for it.
 
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