Blue Bloods?

#1
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#1
Slightly off-topic but basketball-related nonetheless. What does it take for a basketball school to become a "Blue Blood"? Is that even possible? Is there a level of success that can establish a new one anymore or are they pretty much set in stone at this point?

It's just something I've been pondering this off-season. Could the Tennessee job ever reach that status? Does market/location impact that status too heavily? Thoughts?
 
#3
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#3
Slightly off-topic but basketball-related nonetheless. What does it take for a basketball school to become a "Blue Blood"? Is that even possible? Is there a level of success that can establish a new one anymore or are they pretty much set in stone at this point?

It's just something I've been pondering this off-season. Could the Tennessee job ever reach that status? Does market/location impact that status too heavily? Thoughts?
Multiple NCs as a starting point. I’d put Indiana as a blue blood but not Gonzaga. And multiple NCs alone don’t do it for me. Florida is not a blue blood. They simply had a great roster and competent coach for a few years. The USF Dons aren’t much minus Russell. Cincy actually won back-to-back NCs after Oscar left… but still not a blue blood.

I only recognize 5 or 6. UCLA, UK, UNC, Duke, and Kansas. Possibly Indiana but Purdue has actually been better in the Big 10 than IU. The original Big East could have had a couple had they maintained what they were doing in the 1980s.
 
#6
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#6
Thats true ive just never heard them in a blue blood conversation before. Thanks for the info though!
I guess there can be current blue bloods and all-time blue bloods. The shine has certainly come off of IU and UCLA.

Arizona, Georgetown, Nova, tOSU, Michigan, Michigan State, Houston, Florida, UNLV, LSU, Arkansas, NC State, Syracuse, and a few others have taken their shots but came up short. I wonder if UNC and Duke fall off like IU and UCLA. Kentucky has remained there across multiple eras. Kansas as well. Gonzaga has a shot at joining but is missing opportunities to win nattys.
 
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#7

Rrcox1951

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#7
Slightly off-topic but basketball-related nonetheless. What does it take for a basketball school to become a "Blue Blood"? Is that even possible? Is there a level of success that can establish a new one anymore or are they pretty much set in stone at this point?

It's just something I've been pondering this off-season. Could the Tennessee job ever reach that status? Does market/location impact that status too heavily? Thoughts?
IMO, the only programs that be considered “blue bloods” are UCLA, Kentucky, Kansas, NC, and Duke. Duke is the most recent addition to this group since they had few accomplishments before 1980, when Coach K was hired. All of these have long histories with multiple titles.
The next tier would include Indiana, Arizona,and Michigan State perhaps. Other schools that have approached this level and fallen back include, in our own conference, Florida and Arkansas.
There are other schools who have been in the limelight recently such as Gonzaga, but with no titles.
To be considered a “blue blood“ you have to be successful for an extended period of time and, most importantly, win titles. UT has never come particularly close. The easiest way to join their ranks, in my opinion, is to find a top coach at a very young age and keep them around. All of the blue bloods have had coaches who have spent many years with the program (Rupp at KY, K at Duke, Smith & Williams at NC, etc.)
I think the women’s program could be described as “blue blood” for certain, even though they have fallen off dramatically in the last decade. Young coach hired in 1976, check. Extended success (never missed the NCAA), check. Multiple titles (eight), check.
 
#9

bleedingTNorange

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#9
I think the Tennessee job has gotten more and more attractive each year, and regardless of what Barnes ultimately does going forward we can thank him for that. We had to settle on CMM, and then Tyndall...we should be able to attract a much better pool of candidates when the time comes. I’m an easily be argued Tennessee is a Top 10-15 job nationally.
 
#13
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#13
I think the Tennessee job has gotten more and more attractive each year, and regardless of what Barnes ultimately does going forward we can thank him for that. We had to settle on CMM, and then Tyndall...we should be able to attract a much better pool of candidates when the time comes. I’m an easily be argued Tennessee is a Top 10-15 job nationally.
I don't disagree with anything you've stated. What I've noticed is that, over multiple ADs, we have consistently half-assed the coaching search in all sports minus the hire of Barnes, who just fell in our lap by the graces of the bball gods. Every hire we've made in every sport minus Barnes has been an inexperienced coach with moderate success at their previous school. We are not landing solid reputable hires. People have been saying UT bball is one of the most attractive coaching gigs in the SEC for close to two decades now, definitely since the Pearl era, yet we hired Martin and Tyndall. They were not the kind of hires you'd expect for one of the most attractive SEC gigs. Not even close. Same for football.
 
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#14
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#14
I don't disagree with anything you've stated. What I've noticed is that, over multiple ADs, we have consistently half-assed the coaching search in all sports minus the hire of Barnes, who just fell in our lap by the graces of the bball gods. Every hire we've made in every sport minus Barnes has been an inexperienced coach with moderate success at their previous school. We are not landing solid reputable hires. People have been saying UT bball is one of the most attractive coaching gigs in the SEC for close to two decades now, definitely since the Pearl era, yet we hired Martin and Tyndall. They were not the kind of hires you'd expect for one of the most attractive SEC gigs. Not even close. Same for football.
KO should have been a great hire. Who knew that he was such an unstable head case?
 
#16

bleedingTNorange

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#16
I don't disagree with anything you've stated. What I've noticed is that, over multiple ADs, we have consistently half-assed the coaching search in all sports minus the hire of Barnes, who just fell in our lap by the graces of the bball gods. Every hire we've made in every sport minus Barnes has been an inexperienced coach with moderate success at their previous school. We are not landing solid reputable hires. People have been saying UT bball is one of the most attractive coaching gigs in the SEC for close to two decades now, definitely since the Pearl era, yet we hired Martin and Tyndall. They were not the kind of hires you'd expect for one of the most attractive SEC gigs. Not even close. Same for football.
I sure wasn’t saying that...it wasn’t attractive after Pearl, it was seen as probably worse after Martin ordeal, and then even uglier after Tyndall...I don’t disagree that across the board the admin hasn’t made huge hires but the job hasn’t been all that attractive in football either, when it was they were able to hire one of the hotter names in Lane Kiffin...I would say an argument could be made very easily that right now is the most attractive the Tennessee basketball job has ever been.
 
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#18
I sure wasn’t saying that...it wasn’t attractive after Pearl, it was seen as probably worse after Martin ordeal, and then even uglier after Tyndall...I don’t disagree that across the board the admin hasn’t made huge hires but the job hasn’t been all that attractive in football either, when it was they were able to hire one of the hotter names in Lane Kiffin...I would say an argument could be made very easily that right now is the most attractive the Tennessee basketball job has ever been.
I think that Tyndall actually created a bit of a buffer after Bruce’s cheating and CCM getting mad and butt hurt. Different story had ButterBean Donnie been caught cheating at TN. The dumpster fire was still a blazing though.
 
#19

cncchris33

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#19
I don't disagree with anything you've stated. What I've noticed is that, over multiple ADs, we have consistently half-assed the coaching search in all sports minus the hire of Barnes, who just fell in our lap by the graces of the bball gods. Every hire we've made in every sport minus Barnes has been an inexperienced coach with moderate success at their previous school. We are not landing solid reputable hires. People have been saying UT bball is one of the most attractive coaching gigs in the SEC for close to two decades now, definitely since the Pearl era, yet we hired Martin and Tyndall. They were not the kind of hires you'd expect for one of the most attractive SEC gigs. Not even close. Same for football.
Tyndall came on the heels of the belief that Tennessee fans were racist bigots who ran off a good coach.

Martin came on the heels of an NCAA investigation.

Those two, we had to settle for because our program had to have been seen as dangerously toxic in the coaching community.

To your point, though, Pearl was a mid-major coach riding a hot streak in the NCAAT. Largely an unknown at the SEC level upon arrival.

Buzz Peterson was a mid-major name who had some brand recognition as Michael Jordan's roommate and a little success at Tulsa.

Jerry Green was a .500 basketball coach at Oregon.

Kevin O'Neill could have been really good had he not been a gypsy in the coaching community.

Wade Houston was a career assistant with an All-American son and a trucking company that commanded as much of his time as did his basketball team.

Those guys span 30+ years of Tennessew basketball. Certainly not a who's who if the sport.
 
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#20
I sure wasn’t saying that...it wasn’t attractive after Pearl, it was seen as probably worse after Martin ordeal, and then even uglier after Tyndall...I don’t disagree that across the board the admin hasn’t made huge hires but the job hasn’t been all that attractive in football either, when it was they were able to hire one of the hotter names in Lane Kiffin...I would say an argument could be made very easily that right now is the most attractive the Tennessee basketball job has ever been.
Yes, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was countering your argument, or maybe I don't realize that I am countering it. I agree that UT has the edge on the rest of the SEC in some regards. How attractive can the bball coaching spot be for a school that has never been to the Final 4 in over 100 years of history, blatantly plays second fiddle to the football program, and the best coaches have been Bruce Pearl and Ray Mears?

When we say "attractive job," what are we really talking about? I can point to our facilities being better better good. What else? I can't think of anything else to add at the moment.
 
#21
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#21
I think that Tyndall actually created a bit of a buffer after Bruce’s cheating and CCM getting mad and butt hurt. Different story had ButterBean Donnie been caught cheating at TN. The dumpster fire was still a blazing though.
My point was moreso about the fact that Tyndall was a no-name underwhelming type of hire.
 
#22

bleedingTNorange

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#22
I think that Tyndall actually created a bit of a buffer after Bruce’s cheating and CCM getting mad and butt hurt. Different story had ButterBean Donnie been caught cheating at TN. The dumpster fire was still a blazing though.
But the potential of punishment and unknowns around the program along with a crappy roster kind of overrode that “buffer”.
 
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#23
My point was moreso about the fact that Tyndall was a no-name underwhelming type of hire.
He was. But I think that the job became more attractive once removed from Cuonzo and twice removed from Bruce. It was toxic after Cuonzo and Donnie really didn’t make it worse.

It was actually attractive after Buzz. He left several excellent players for the next guy. KO, Bruce, and Cuonzo left huge messes behind them. At least Jerry left behind players that were winning.
 
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#24

bleedingTNorange

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#24
Yes, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was countering your argument, or maybe I don't realize that I am countering it. I agree that UT has the edge on the rest of the SEC in some regards. How attractive can the bball coaching spot be for a school that has never been to the Final 4 in over 100 years of history, blatantly plays second fiddle to the football program, and the best coaches have been Bruce Pearl and Ray Mears?

When we say "attractive job," what are we really talking about? I can point to our facilities being better better good. What else? I can't think of anything else to add at the moment.
Willingness to commit to the program...whether that be head coaches salary, assistant pool, or facilities. If you look around the country we pay top dollar for our coach, assistants and stay ahead for the most part on facilities.

Outside of that fan support, that’s a huge part of what coaches look at, and other than Kentucky an argument can be made that Tennessee is tops in the SEC.
 
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#25
But the potential of punishment and unknowns around the program along with a crappy roster kind of overrode that “buffer”.
Donnie was a mistake, but I don’t know if there was ever a worry that his nefarious shenanigans were afoot during his short tenure at TN. I don’t think that CRB would have grabbed the opportunity so quickly had sanctions been much of a concern.
 

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