Blab bla blah bla blah

[Dragon18]

About as astute as the other poster who talked about how focused they were than mentioned in the same post 8 instances where the missed tackles etc.

Look... I don't know how to explain this and I'm really trying to be informational and I definitely don't presume to know exactly what broke down offensively. I watch football for enjoyment anymore and try not to over analyze the game. What I do know are these items:

1- for the most part football is a players game where you strap it up and execute your assignments.

2- Coaches help you do this in 2 ways. First is game planning and game prep so that you as a player have the optimal opportunity to be successful. This is at least 90% of coaching for a game. The other is in game adjustments that can be made based upon your scheme and pkan to counter unanticipated wrinkles.

3- I feel like our team had a good plan and were really prepared for this game. We jumped out to a 17 point lead for crying out loud.

4- Could we have made some adjustments offensively? Maybe. We just didn't have the ball enough to do that in the 4th quarter and given the 3rd quarter was a stalemate we were ok.

5- We all know the game lasts 4 quarters. We definitely made several execution errors that literally cost us the game. I don't put this on the coaches. The players played hard but those errors are on them. It happens. Do you have a perfect day at work everyday? It will be a problem if the coaches don't correct those mistakes.

6- (edit)Finally I look at the trajectory of the program to measure the effectiveness of our coaches. We have a fantastic baseline to measure our progress with the OU game. This team whipped us last year and we were the better team for 3 quarters this year. We will have other measurements in the coming weeks but at this point you can only conclude our trajectory as a program is positive.

Overall I just refuse to lay this game solely at the feet of the coaches. That's the easy whipping boy for a disappointing loss and this thought has been whipped into a frenzy on these pages. I've just seen enough without putting in my 2 cents worth. You can agree, disagree or whatever but I do know a little bit about this.

 

[volgrad500]

It's a 4 quarter game my man.

Being focused for 3 quarters isn't exactly working out well for them in these big games.

You know, after watching the replay last night, I think it's a pretty big stretch to say we dominated for 3 quarters. In reality, we came out and punched them in the gut for the first quarter, and 3 minutes of the second. Then both teams pretty much did nothing until the fourth (where we continued to do nothing).

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Look... I don't know how to explain this and I'm really trying to be informational and I definitely don't presume to know exactly what broke down offensively. I watch football for enjoyment anymore and try not to over analyze the game. What I do know are these items:

1- for the most part football is a players game where you strap it up and execute your assignments.

2- Coaches help you do this in 2 ways. First is game planning and game prep so that you as a player have the optimal opportunity to be successful. This is at least 90% of coaching for a game. The other is in game adjustments that can be made based upon your scheme and pkan to counter unanticipated wrinkles.

3- I feel like our team had a good plan and were really prepared for this game. We jumped out to a 17 point lead for crying out loud.

4- Could we have made some adjustments offensively? Maybe. We just didn't have the ball enough to do that in the 4th quarter and given the 3rd quarter was a stalemate we were ok.

5- Finally, we all know the game lasts 4 quarters. We definitely made several execution errors that literally cost us the game. I don't put this on the coaches. The players played hard but those errors are on them. It happens. Do you have a perfect day at work everyday? It will be a problem if the coaches don't correct those mistakes.

Overall I just refuse to lay this game solely at the feet of the coaches. That's the easy whipping boy for a disappointing loss and this thought has been whipped into a frenzy on these pages. I've just seen enough without putting in my 2 cents worth. You can agree, disagree or whatever but I do know a little bit about this.

I don't disagree with any of this, I just find the faction on here( not necessarily saying you in particular are in this group) who refuse to find any fault whatsoever with what the coaches do are somewhat absurd.

It's a team game and that includes the coaches.

Some of this lack of execution goes back to coaches putting players in a position to succeed instead of sticking with something that obviously stopped working midway through the second quarter.

Dobbs has gotten a ton of criticism this week and a few calls for a change at the position, but given the pressure he faced constantly in the second half, he could have done a lot worse.

There are a number of things that offensive staff could have done to help him out. Extra blocker staying in, changing some passing routes ( slants etc), going with the screen game, roll outs away from the extra blitzer they continually brought to the field side, etc.

It was a lack of execution by the offensive coaches just as much as a lack of execution by the players in dropping passes and missing blocks.

 

[KnoxRealtorVOL]

Look... I don't know how to explain this and I'm really trying to be informational and I definitely don't presume to know exactly what broke down offensively. I watch football for enjoyment anymore and try not to over analyze the game. What I do know are these items:

1- for the most part football is a players game where you strap it up and execute your assignments.

2- Coaches help you do this in 2 ways. First is game planning and game prep so that you as a player have the optimal opportunity to be successful. This is at least 90% of coaching for a game. The other is in game adjustments that can be made based upon your scheme and pkan to counter unanticipated wrinkles.

3- I feel like our team had a good plan and were really prepared for this game. We jumped out to a 17 point lead for crying out loud.

4- Could we have made some adjustments offensively? Maybe. We just didn't have the ball enough to do that in the 4th quarter and given the 3rd quarter was a stalemate we were ok.

5- We all know the game lasts 4 quarters. We definitely made several execution errors that literally cost us the game. I don't put this on the coaches. The players played hard but those errors are on them. It happens. Do you have a perfect day at work everyday? It will be a problem if the coaches don't correct those mistakes.

6- (edit)Finally I look at the trajectory of the program to measure the effectiveness of our coaches. We have a fantastic baseline to measure our progress with the OU game. This team whipped us last year and we were the better team for 3 quarters this year. We will have other measurements in the coming weeks but at this point you can only conclude our trajectory as a program is positive.

Overall I just refuse to lay this game solely at the feet of the coaches. That's the easy whipping boy for a disappointing loss and this thought has been whipped into a frenzy on these pages. I've just seen enough without putting in my 2 cents worth. You can agree, disagree or whatever but I do know a little bit about this.

I don't think nearly as many people are griping about the 4th quarter play as they are about the conservative coaching all around, starting with not going for it on 4th and inches.

 

[jimallvol]

This is a message board to express opinions.

Some people dont understand that on here. Any negative talk is usually followed by, Negavol or the saying go cheer for Bama or Vandy. I just dont understand why some fans on here want to call others out just for giving their opinion on here.

 

[Wylo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Wylo you are clueless. I honestly think you're just trolling to get people pissed. Your body of work on VN is pitiful and we never see you until there is something that is negative going on. Take a hike fella!

Lol. I've been here far longer than many. I've been supportive plenty. But the proof is stacking up. Not going anywhere, bub.

 

[samanderson]

I am sick of all the threads on here about we are still young, and "but we weren't expected to beat OK," and "the team is still learning, and crap, and more crap...

Call a Spade a Spade.

CBJ has not yet, not once, out coached anyone.

Yeah he beat Spurrier last year...who didn't?

And the year before that we won due to a miracle catch by North.

MO out coached us, Vandy out coached us, and even the Gators coach out coached us.

We have lost two games now where we were up big going into the 4th quarter. Now our OC says we need to learn blitzes etc.

CBJ has the ability to grow. he can mature as a coach and he can get it together. But unless something changes he is our Zook.

I mean does anyone think we lose to either FL or OK if Gruden had of actually taken the job...

So you are saying Butch has no weapons of mass destruction? That's pretty radical for a neocon.

 

[Dragon18]

I don't disagree with any of this, I just find the faction on here( not necessarily saying you in particular are in this group) who refuse to find any fault whatsoever with what the coaches do are somewhat absurd.

It's a team game and that includes the coaches.

Some of this lack of execution goes back to coaches putting players in a position to succeed instead of sticking with something that obviously stopped working midway through the second quarter.

Dobbs has gotten a ton of criticism this week and a few calls for a change at the position, but given the pressure he faced constantly in the second half, he could have done a lot worse.

There are a number of things that offensive staff could have done to help him out. Extra blocker staying in, changing some passing routes ( slants etc), going with the screen game, roll outs away from the extra blitzer they continually brought to the field side, etc.

It was a lack of execution by the offensive coaches just as much as a lack of execution by the players in dropping passes and missing blocks.

I get the point you're making and don't totally disagree. My focus is usually more on the defensive side of the game as well so I can't speak as much to offensive scheming and adjustments. I can tell you that OU was totally selling out defensively in the second half and Dobbs had no time to do anything. If we could have just gotten a helmet on each of their helmets we could have had some big plays in the run game but they covered up their blitzes really well and confused our oline. I didn't mind the stalemate in the middle of the game. We were two evenly matched teams, we had brief moments of success, our D was lights out and we had a 2 score lead. I'm a bit old school that way.

 

[JC61]

If your limit is 3 years then you would have bailed on Coach K at Duke. I think it is more prudent to gauge movement in the program. I think I'm a bit in attack mode today because I'm a bit fed up at the continual b****ing about the coaches and the posts about Butch not being the guy when the program is taking huge strides year over year. This same team whipped us last year. It's really disappointing to lose a game like this but there are many coachable moments that the players can learn from. There are no stagnant points and teams either have a positive or negative trajectory. Our trajectory is still VERY positive and until it turns we should support the coaches.

hasn't been since year 1 to quite a few on here.

 

[governmentmule]

We are lulling people to sleep with the hurry up and punt offense. Pretty soon we're going to see Butch's real offense

I would have liked for them to get out of the hurry up offense late in the 2nd half ,burning time off the clock is a good thing

 

[82_VOL_83]

What I fail to comprehend huh? My friend I doubt you've ever been a part of a football program to make the statement above. I promise you I've played at higher levels than you unless you played in the NFL. Butch's game plan was solid and if you go back and watch the game you will see where the players made huge mistakes at really crucial moments that either stalled our drives or extended OU's drives. Players know it's their responsibility to execute. So before you make such definitive statements you should probably check yourself.

Edit: By saying the players failed to execute I'm in no way trashing them either. Mistakes get made in every game and sometimes you get beat on your assignments. We just made some really big mistakes at very bad times. GBMFO!

Yep, you are right, you are the BMOC and no one else knows dick. Your year in JUCO makes you a football genius.

I don't give a shiite what the game plan was. The fact that we didn't take the holding penalty, punted a ball into the endzone with 18 or so seconds on the clock instead of taking ALL the time off the clock and backing up 5, and then running 3 and out while snapping the ball with an average of 15 seconds on the clock for a quarter and a half sounds like a pretty shiity game plan. That's on the coach. He burns 3:00 off the clock, we aren't having this conversation and you don't have to show everyone how smart you are.

My point is, independent of the players executing, there were coaching errors made that would have won the game.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I normally don't post to this type of thread, but I literally have acid in my mouth. Some of you folks should have to apply for a license to own a computer.

If we're going to throw around the "outcoached" phrase again and again every time something upsets us, let's agree to some rules regarding the usage. I recommend the following:
1) Actually have a criteria by which you can judge success/failure (or being "outcoached"). This can be anything per your opinion, but the more tangible and thought-out the more agreement you'll get. Example in the OK game COULD be
"Were the players put into the best position to succeed (i.e. formations, substitutions, etc.)"
2) Next devise a system by which to measure the results against your criteria. In my example above you could simply use statistics versus average on a player by player basis. How did Hurd do against his average versus Perine? How did Shepard do versus pick a Vol?
3) Analyze the results and come up with a sensible conclusion. In this case you could say, "There was little difference in the results as determined by measureable factors, but I'm going to pin all of my frustration on the 7% contributor."

Solid numbers, add up all the time left on the play clock above 3 seconds for our drives in the 3rd and 4th quarters. If your total is greater than 0:40, then it's on the coaches. We got out coached.

 

[82_VOL_83]

CBJ was out there throwing passes into the dirt, and running a hurry up offense, and missing easy tackles at the end of the game.

Fify

 

[JC61]

Yep, you are right, you are the BMOC and no one else knows dick. Your year in JUCO makes you a football genius.

I don't give a shiite what the game plan was. The fact that we didn't take the holding penalty, punted a ball into the endzone with 18 or so seconds on the clock instead of taking ALL the time off the clock and backing up 5, and then running 3 and out while snapping the ball with an average of 15 seconds on the clock for a quarter and a half sounds like a pretty shiity game plan. That's on the coach. He burns 3:00 off the clock, we aren't having this conversation and you don't have to show everyone how smart you are.

My point is, independent of the players executing, there were coaching errors made that would have won the game.

WT...:censored:

 

[82_VOL_83]

If your limit is 3 years then you would have bailed on Coach K at Duke. I think it is more prudent to gauge movement in the program. I think I'm a bit in attack mode today because I'm a bit fed up at the continual b****ing about the coaches and the posts about Butch not being the guy when the program is taking huge strides year over year. This same team whipped us last year. It's really disappointing to lose a game like this but there are many coachable moments that the players can learn from. There are no stagnant points and teams either have a positive or negative trajectory. Our trajectory is still VERY positive and until it turns we should support the coaches.

No one is saying we haven't made huge strides. But to say Jones is the guy after 2 recruiting classes and not proving that he has improved HIS style over last year is less than honest.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Lol. I've been here far longer than many. I've been supportive plenty. But the proof is stacking up. Not going anywhere, bub.

Watch it Wylo, he played a year of JUCO.

 

[Dragon18]

No one is saying we haven't made huge strides. But to say Jones is the guy after 2 recruiting classes and not proving that he has improved HIS style over last year is less than honest.

Look I'm not saying Butch is the guy. I do think that the program continues to improve in large strides year over year. Some of your points are valid as well. I just don't understand 6 days of bashing Butch for a game that was lost primarily due to about 8 major execution errors made by players at very critical moments. To Grudensagent's point there are points to be corrected both by coaches and by players.

I apologize if I've come across as an ass or a know it all. I truly don't presume to be that guy. My "juco experience" does give me a different perspective though

Edit: hell maybe I really like Butch's approach and really want him to succeed here.

 

[Other_Guy]

beat florida and all is forgiven

Not everyone wants to admit it, but everyones knows it.

The Florida game was always a crapload bigger than OU.

 

[JPL]

Solid numbers, add up all the time left on the play clock above 3 seconds for our drives in the 3rd and 4th quarters. If your total is greater than 0:40, then it's on the coaches. We got out coached.

Bottom line is winners win. Just like Butch said when he first came to UT-losing is a disease & you have to learn how to win. Butch is still learning to win the BIG games. As Butch pointed out himself when he was hired, neither Nick Saban, Urban Meyer or Les Miles had SEC experience before getting their first shot in the SEC. Unfourtnately for Butch & UT the 3 foregoing coaches were much further along in learning how to win in the SEC by their 3rd year.
I'm not calilng for Butch to be fired. I'm calling for Butch to Start winning & winning BIG! Start winning some games he's not favored to win, surprise the fan base, raise the bar, and WIN!!!

GO VOLS

 

[HazMat]

... I promise you I've played at higher levels than you unless you played in the NFL.

"Hey dad can you help me out is that Jim Brown or Peyton Manning over there.. my eyes aren't good

 

[Arnvol]

I am sick of all the threads on here about we are still young, and "but we weren't expected to beat OK," and "the team is still learning, and crap, and more crap...

Call a Spade a Spade.

CBJ has not yet, not once, out coached anyone.

Yeah he beat Spurrier last year...who didn't?

And the year before that we won due to a miracle catch by North.

MO out coached us, Vandy out coached us, and even the Gators coach out coached us.

We have lost two games now where we were up big going into the 4th quarter. Now our OC says we need to learn blitzes etc.

CBJ has the ability to grow. he can mature as a coach and he can get it together. But unless something changes he is our Zook.

I mean does anyone think we lose to either FL or OK if Gruden had of actually taken the job...

If Gruden is such a phenomenal coach why does he work for ESPN,I mean even chizick found a better job than an analyst.

 

[JC61]

this stuff is better than SNL Point - Counter Point back in the day

 

[NEVolFan]

All designed to hit old Steve right in the bread basket...

 

[Nationdom]

There is no way in He77 that Gruden will coach this team. Even if he did I do not see him being able to recruit like Butch and company. Gruden has gotten lazy, he enjoys just showing up on game day and telling us what he thinks. There is a reason great coaches like Gruden and Jimmy Johnson are talking heads. They make lots of money and have to prepare very little. If they coached it would have to be 24x7x365 just like Butch & Company.

That is why Butch is the right man. Give him time to learn how to win big time football games. We are at game 3 of year 3. Remember we were a dumpster fire and could not hire a big name coach. Nor could we afford to hire a big name coach. Remember just two years ago the sports at UT were borrowing money from the school (because we were still paying Dooley, probably Kiffin). We are back in the black now and I expect the next OC hire to be someone great. Debord is not the man long term. He was a fill in for this year because the last one left suddenly. I expect Butch to get a new OC unless we put up some ungodly numbers the rest of the year.

Sorry for the rant but move on people we lost to a team we were expected to lose to.

Keep Butch as lead recruiter if Gruden were to take over.

 

[emzeeee]

Keep Butch as lead recruiter if Gruden were to take over.

Because that would happen.