Better times are coming, here's how you can tell.

#1

AshG

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#1
I'll try to keep this to an approachable length. My attention span is likely as far gone as many of yours are at this point. But please, save the tl;dr schtick for the kiddie pool.

The tl;dr is "we're going to be alright." There, now you can go.

Without going into all the boring details, my dissertation work is on transition, transaction, persistence, and grit in performance-related fields. Observing the team from a distance limits my accuracy tremendously, but I believe these four items are at play right in front of us. How I see the staff handling them is what keeps me positive.

1. Transition. There are three stages to transition, and the older players look like they are stuck in the first stage (starting to transition). This is usually marked by extreme difficulty adjusting to new environments or expectations. Many of these older kids didn't transition for CBJ either; the ones stuck in transition tend to be those who weren't used to sharing the spotlight with anyone else at the high school level. Primadonnas tend to want to maintain their primadonna identities. Teams built around them often falter when the player moves on because the entire team has to transition to fit the next big recruiting catch rather than the other way around. Expect to see less of this and more completed transitions (aka buy-in) as Pruitt and staff evaluate talent on ability to integrate as well as just raw talent. Completed transitions by a greater number of players lead to more efficient...

2. Transaction. Athletics are built around transactional relationships. A coaching staff and their team exists in a symbiotic relationship. The coaching staff provides training and exposure to the players, who are then supposed to put on display what they've been taught. When they display what they were taught at a high enough level, the coaching staff is able to move to next-level skills. The performance of the players also helps to bring notoriety to the coaches, who can then recruit a higher echelon of players. When Pruitt kicked the board on the sideline early in the season, it was out of frustration that the unit was failing to perform what they'd been taught; the transactional relationship had broken down. Personnel who are stuck in transition are notorious for contributing to a breakdown of the transactional process and make it more difficult for those who are committed to overcome the mess that's been created. Like a cog in a watch or clock, one broken cog tooth is all it takes to throw the whole thing out of whack. Traditionally, it's up to the players / personnel to fit into the transactional expectations of the coach / CEO / director. Primadonnas and go-it-alone players are especially dangerous. Pruitt has been brought up in effective systems that removed or mitigated the effects of aberrant participants, and we can see some signs of that happening here.

3. Persistence and grit. These are two sides of the same coin but are still markedly different. Persistence is related to how an individual handles external issues to get where they want to go, while grit is largely an internal dialogue and reaction. Players who have been handed everything in the past and not expected to earn their place on the squad outside of their raw ability often have low persistence metrics because they have't had to push through external difficulties. Bad press, pressure from another player nipping at their heels in the depth chart, and struggles with life away from the field put players in the position to demonstrate their ability to persist in the face of adversity. Grit is the inner dialogue; pushing through doubts, staying focused on the end result instead of being trapped by what ifs and why did Is, Grit can be taught; good coaches do it all the time. Persistence has to be learned the hard way of actually dealing with the issues at hand.

This year's Vols had plenty opportunities to demonstrate persistence, but when it came down to it they were lacking the wherewithal to push through to the other side. A lack of grit by many players was evident on the field tonight, but there is more and more being demonstrated by the younger members of the team. Assuming Pruitt can continue to lock down players who are willing to transition fully into the team's group identity and the incoming players feel they are receiving a quality product from Pruitt and staff and reciprocate with high-quality gameplay, we should see marked improvements next year and beyond.

It's easy to look at Mullen and Florida and be pissed off that we don't have that level of success this year. I wanted it, too. Florida didn't have the pernicious, program-sapping personnel issues because they had a stable of players who were more willing to transition into a new team ethos than we did. As CBJ's players matriculate out, we'll likely see greater buy-in, better play, and less of the team giving up in tough situations. We're going to be alright.
 
Last edited:
#2
#2
This is going to be a much longer turn around than we expected. 6-6 is the ceiling next year. We will probably have a lot of freshman on the field next year. We just don't have the juice at the moment. It will probably be year 4 before CJP starts having real success 2022 sec east champs
 
#3
#3
This is going to be a much longer turn around than we expected. 6-6 is the ceiling next year. We will probably have a lot of freshman on the field next year. We just don't have the juice at the moment. It will probably be year 4 before CJP starts having real success 2022 sec east champs
What I was thinking also...minimum 4 years if he stays that long...
 
#5
#5
This is going to be a much longer turn around than we expected. 6-6 is the ceiling next year. We will probably have a lot of freshman on the field next year. We just don't have the juice at the moment. It will probably be year 4 before CJP starts having real success 2022 sec east champs
I really don't think he will make it to 2022 without winning.

I agree with some of what the OP posted, which is why it was critical to make the right hire last year. We needed a coach whose reputation is big enough to eclipse player ego, a sun for the Vol universe to spin around. Pruitt is getting a shot but given what he has to dig out from in a relatively short time table, he was about as close to being set up for failure as a coach can get.
 
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#6
#6
This is going to be a much longer turn around than we expected. 6-6 is the ceiling next year. We will probably have a lot of freshman on the field next year. We just don't have the juice at the moment. It will probably be year 4 before CJP starts having real success 2022 sec east champs



Not sure Pruitt is up to the task at this point, he certainally doesn't pass the eye test
 
#7
#7
I really don't think he will make it to 2022 without winning.

I agree with some of what the OP posted, which is why it was critical to make the right hire last year. We needed a coach whose reputation is big enough to eclipse player ego, a sun for the Vol universe to spin around. Pruitt is getting a shot but given what he has to dig out from in a relatively short timetable, he was about as close to being set up for failure as a coach can get.

I didn't say we won't win but our path back to being a contender in the East is more than likely going to be the path that UK and Mark Stoops took. He's in his 6th season and finally having some success. This program is closer to where UK was in 2013 than where UGA was in 2016 when Kirby took over UGA. I know that's a huge bitter horse pill to swallow but it is what it is. I think Fulmer is well aware of that. No one is turning this thing around in anything less than 4 years.
 
#10
#10
I'll try to keep this to an approachable length. My attention span is likely as far gone as many of yours are at this point. But please, save the tl;dr schtick for the kiddie pool.

The tl;dr is "we're going to be alright." There, now you can go.

Without going into all the boring details, my dissertation work is on transition, transaction, persistence, and grit in performance-related fields. Observing the team from a distance limits my accuracy tremendously, but I believe these four items are at play right in front of us. How I see the staff handling them is what keeps me positive.

1. Transition. There are three stages to transition, and the older players look like they are stuck in the first stage (starting to transition). This is usually marked by extreme difficulty adjusting to new environments or expectations. Many of these older kids didn't transition for CBJ either; the ones stuck in transition tend to be those who weren't used to sharing the spotlight with anyone else at the high school level. Primadonnas tend to want to maintain their primadonna identities. Teams built around them often falter when the player moves on because the entire team has to transition to fit the next big recruiting catch rather than the other way around. Expect to see less of this and more completed transitions (aka buy-in) as Pruitt and staff evaluate talent on ability to integrate as well as just raw talent. Completed transitions by a greater number of players lead to more efficient...

2. Transaction. Athletics are built around transactional relationships. A coaching staff and their team exists in a symbiotic relationship. The coaching staff provides training and exposure to the players, who are then supposed to put on display what they've been taught. When they display what they were taught at a high enough level, the coaching staff is able to move to next-level skills. The performance of the players also helps to bring notoriety to the coaches, who can then recruit a higher echelon of players. When Pruitt kicked the board on the sideline early in the season, it was out of frustration that the unit was failing to perform what they'd been taught; the transactional relationship had broken down. Personnel who are stuck in transition are notorious for contributing to a breakdown of the transactional process and make it more difficult for those who are committed to overcome the mess that's been created. Like a cog in a watch or clock, one broken cog tooth is all it takes to throw the whole thing out of whack. Traditionally, it's up to the players / personnel to fit into the transactional expectations of the coach / CEO / director. Primadonnas and go-it-alone players are especially dangerous. Pruitt has been brought up in effective systems that removed or mitigated the effects of aberrant participants, and we can see some signs of that happening here.

3. Persistence and grit. These are two sides of the same coin but are still markedly different. Persistence is related to how an individual handles external issues to get where they want to go, while grit is largely an internal dialogue and reaction. Players who have been handed everything in the past and not expected to earn their place on the squad outside of their raw ability often have low persistence metrics because they have't had to push through external difficulties. Bad press, pressure from another player nipping at their heels in the depth chart, and struggles with life away from the field put players in the position to demonstrate their ability to persist in the face of adversity. Grit is the inner dialogue; pushing through doubts, staying focused on the end result instead of being trapped by what ifs and why did Is, Grit can be taught; good coaches do it all the time. Persistence has to be learned the hard way of actually dealing with the issues at hand.

This year's Vols had plenty opportunities to demonstrate persistence, but when it came down to it they were lacking the wherewithal to push through to the other side. A lack of grit by many players was evident on the field tonight, but there is more and more being demonstrated by the younger members of the team. Assuming Pruitt can continue to lock down players who are willing to transition fully into the team's group identity and the incoming players feel they are receiving a quality product from Pruitt and staff and reciprocate with high-quality gameplay, we should see marked improvements next year and beyond.

It's easy to look at Mullen and Florida and be pissed off that we don't have that level of success this year. I wanted it, too. Florida didn't have the pernicious, program-sapping personnel issues because they had a stable of players who were more willing to transition into a new team ethos than we did. As CBJ's players matriculate out, we'll likely see greater buy-in, better play, and less of the team giving up in tough situations. We're going to be alright.
Sound, non homer write up. Thanks.
 
#11
#11
I'll try to keep this to an approachable length. My attention span is likely as far gone as many of yours are at this point. But please, save the tl;dr schtick for the kiddie pool.

The tl;dr is "we're going to be alright." There, now you can go.

Without going into all the boring details, my dissertation work is on transition, transaction, persistence, and grit in performance-related fields. Observing the team from a distance limits my accuracy tremendously, but I believe these four items are at play right in front of us. How I see the staff handling them is what keeps me positive.

1. Transition. There are three stages to transition, and the older players look like they are stuck in the first stage (starting to transition). This is usually marked by extreme difficulty adjusting to new environments or expectations. Many of these older kids didn't transition for CBJ either; the ones stuck in transition tend to be those who weren't used to sharing the spotlight with anyone else at the high school level. Primadonnas tend to want to maintain their primadonna identities. Teams built around them often falter when the player moves on because the entire team has to transition to fit the next big recruiting catch rather than the other way around. Expect to see less of this and more completed transitions (aka buy-in) as Pruitt and staff evaluate talent on ability to integrate as well as just raw talent. Completed transitions by a greater number of players lead to more efficient...

2. Transaction. Athletics are built around transactional relationships. A coaching staff and their team exists in a symbiotic relationship. The coaching staff provides training and exposure to the players, who are then supposed to put on display what they've been taught. When they display what they were taught at a high enough level, the coaching staff is able to move to next-level skills. The performance of the players also helps to bring notoriety to the coaches, who can then recruit a higher echelon of players. When Pruitt kicked the board on the sideline early in the season, it was out of frustration that the unit was failing to perform what they'd been taught; the transactional relationship had broken down. Personnel who are stuck in transition are notorious for contributing to a breakdown of the transactional process and make it more difficult for those who are committed to overcome the mess that's been created. Like a cog in a watch or clock, one broken cog tooth is all it takes to throw the whole thing out of whack. Traditionally, it's up to the players / personnel to fit into the transactional expectations of the coach / CEO / director. Primadonnas and go-it-alone players are especially dangerous. Pruitt has been brought up in effective systems that removed or mitigated the effects of aberrant participants, and we can see some signs of that happening here.

3. Persistence and grit. These are two sides of the same coin but are still markedly different. Persistence is related to how an individual handles external issues to get where they want to go, while grit is largely an internal dialogue and reaction. Players who have been handed everything in the past and not expected to earn their place on the squad outside of their raw ability often have low persistence metrics because they have't had to push through external difficulties. Bad press, pressure from another player nipping at their heels in the depth chart, and struggles with life away from the field put players in the position to demonstrate their ability to persist in the face of adversity. Grit is the inner dialogue; pushing through doubts, staying focused on the end result instead of being trapped by what ifs and why did Is, Grit can be taught; good coaches do it all the time. Persistence has to be learned the hard way of actually dealing with the issues at hand.

This year's Vols had plenty opportunities to demonstrate persistence, but when it came down to it they were lacking the wherewithal to push through to the other side. A lack of grit by many players was evident on the field tonight, but there is more and more being demonstrated by the younger members of the team. Assuming Pruitt can continue to lock down players who are willing to transition fully into the team's group identity and the incoming players feel they are receiving a quality product from Pruitt and staff and reciprocate with high-quality gameplay, we should see marked improvements next year and beyond.

It's easy to look at Mullen and Florida and be pissed off that we don't have that level of success this year. I wanted it, too. Florida didn't have the pernicious, program-sapping personnel issues because they had a stable of players who were more willing to transition into a new team ethos than we did. As CBJ's players matriculate out, we'll likely see greater buy-in, better play, and less of the team giving up in tough situations. We're going to be alright.

An excellent summary OP and well beyond the comprehension level of many folks on this board.
 
#12
#12
No one but Allah himself is up to the task of to meeting unrealistic expectations.

I'm not off the Pruitt bandwagon by any means but is it that unrealistic to not get your ass beat by Vandy? Yesterday was on him, it's his job to motivate what he has and work with it. No one was asking him to go 8-4 or 9-3 but I did expect the team to at least show up and act like they had a pulse yesterday. In terms of the way some of the players acted yesterday that was totally unacceptable and I hope they find new homes at D2 schools, I'm looking at you Drew Richmond.
 
#13
#13
I'm not off the Pruitt bandwagon by any means but is it that unrealistic to not get your ass beat by Vandy? Yesterday was on him, it's his job to motivate what he has and work with it. No one was asking him to go 8-4 or 9-3 but I did expect the team to at least show up and act like they had a pulse yesterday. In terms of the way some of the players acted yesterday that was totally unacceptable and I hope they find new homes at D2 schools, I'm looking at you Drew Richmond.
Yes, it was unrealistic. Your bias towards Vandy is based in some fan entitlement that UT should win without putting in the work. Get over the 90 and the all-time record. It's simple despite what you think of Vandy or how bad they are they have had stability and have a tough-minded team two things we haven't had in a long time. I guarantee you that CJP would rather have Vandy's roster than UT's. They have beat us 3 years in a row with 2 different coaches and God knows how many different coordinators the common denominator in all this is the player on the field. They are weak minded, physically weak, slow, and low footbal IQ players.
 
#14
#14
This is going to be a much longer turn around than we expected. 6-6 is the ceiling next year. We will probably have a lot of freshman on the field next year. We just don't have the juice at the moment. It will probably be year 4 before CJP starts having real success 2022 sec east champs

2017= 4-8
2018= 5-7
2019= 6-6
2020= 7-5
2021= 8-4
2022= 9-3
2023= 10-2
2024 = 11-1
2025= 12-0

In 7 to 8 years we will be playing for final four slots
 
#15
#15
2017= 4-8
2018= 5-7
2019= 6-6
2020= 7-5
2021= 8-4
2022= 9-3
2023= 10-2
2024 = 11-1
2025= 12-0

In 7 to 8 years we will be playing for final four slots

Pruitt will not be given that much time with the rate of improvement at one game per season. Besides that, what does that say about his development as a coach?
 
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#16
#16
Many knowledgeable people who looked at our personnel thought UT would go winless again in SEC play. Butch built a MAC team and these guys can't complete in the SEC. Dobbs masked Butch's failed formula. These guys have been taught not to care because of past failures. These were coaching failures in recruiting, development and team building. CJP could mask these issues to a point, but competent quarterback play and physical offensive line play exposed the defense. Undersized and over matched offensive line play combined with a quarterback who held the ball too long and didn't read blitzs well resulted in negative plays on almost every possession. The team won 5 games and in their view (a Butch Jones view) they overachieved. The best indicator of future behavior is the past. These players quit in the past so it is not surprising they quit this year too.
 
#17
#17
I'll try to keep this to an approachable length. My attention span is likely as far gone as many of yours are at this point. But please, save the tl;dr schtick for the kiddie pool.

The tl;dr is "we're going to be alright." There, now you can go.

Without going into all the boring details, my dissertation work is on transition, transaction, persistence, and grit in performance-related fields. Observing the team from a distance limits my accuracy tremendously, but I believe these four items are at play right in front of us. How I see the staff handling them is what keeps me positive.

1. Transition. There are three stages to transition, and the older players look like they are stuck in the first stage (starting to transition). This is usually marked by extreme difficulty adjusting to new environments or expectations. Many of these older kids didn't transition for CBJ either; the ones stuck in transition tend to be those who weren't used to sharing the spotlight with anyone else at the high school level. Primadonnas tend to want to maintain their primadonna identities. Teams built around them often falter when the player moves on because the entire team has to transition to fit the next big recruiting catch rather than the other way around. Expect to see less of this and more completed transitions (aka buy-in) as Pruitt and staff evaluate talent on ability to integrate as well as just raw talent. Completed transitions by a greater number of players lead to more efficient...

2. Transaction. Athletics are built around transactional relationships. A coaching staff and their team exists in a symbiotic relationship. The coaching staff provides training and exposure to the players, who are then supposed to put on display what they've been taught. When they display what they were taught at a high enough level, the coaching staff is able to move to next-level skills. The performance of the players also helps to bring notoriety to the coaches, who can then recruit a higher echelon of players. When Pruitt kicked the board on the sideline early in the season, it was out of frustration that the unit was failing to perform what they'd been taught; the transactional relationship had broken down. Personnel who are stuck in transition are notorious for contributing to a breakdown of the transactional process and make it more difficult for those who are committed to overcome the mess that's been created. Like a cog in a watch or clock, one broken cog tooth is all it takes to throw the whole thing out of whack. Traditionally, it's up to the players / personnel to fit into the transactional expectations of the coach / CEO / director. Primadonnas and go-it-alone players are especially dangerous. Pruitt has been brought up in effective systems that removed or mitigated the effects of aberrant participants, and we can see some signs of that happening here.

3. Persistence and grit. These are two sides of the same coin but are still markedly different. Persistence is related to how an individual handles external issues to get where they want to go, while grit is largely an internal dialogue and reaction. Players who have been handed everything in the past and not expected to earn their place on the squad outside of their raw ability often have low persistence metrics because they have't had to push through external difficulties. Bad press, pressure from another player nipping at their heels in the depth chart, and struggles with life away from the field put players in the position to demonstrate their ability to persist in the face of adversity. Grit is the inner dialogue; pushing through doubts, staying focused on the end result instead of being trapped by what ifs and why did Is, Grit can be taught; good coaches do it all the time. Persistence has to be learned the hard way of actually dealing with the issues at hand.

This year's Vols had plenty opportunities to demonstrate persistence, but when it came down to it they were lacking the wherewithal to push through to the other side. A lack of grit by many players was evident on the field tonight, but there is more and more being demonstrated by the younger members of the team. Assuming Pruitt can continue to lock down players who are willing to transition fully into the team's group identity and the incoming players feel they are receiving a quality product from Pruitt and staff and reciprocate with high-quality gameplay, we should see marked improvements next year and beyond.

It's easy to look at Mullen and Florida and be pissed off that we don't have that level of success this year. I wanted it, too. Florida didn't have the pernicious, program-sapping personnel issues because they had a stable of players who were more willing to transition into a new team ethos than we did. As CBJ's players matriculate out, we'll likely see greater buy-in, better play, and less of the team giving up in tough situations. We're going to be alright.
Agreed. Teams like Fla can respond because they had one bad year and some of the bad apples (Calloway) left the program. They had pretty good. success in 2015-16. UT had modest success in the same time but got it with corner cutting. We have no foundation at this time. Terrible S&C the past few years, terrible practice habits.

Pruitt isn’t used to losing, and he will recruit players willing to work and do it his way.
 
#18
#18
Agreed. Teams like Fla can respond because they had one bad year and some of the bad apples (Calloway) left the program. They had pretty good. success in 2015-16. UT had modest success in the same time but got it with corner cutting. We have no foundation at this time. Terrible S&C the past few years, terrible practice habits.

Pruitt isn’t used to losing, and he will recruit players willing to work and do it his way.

The question I have, going forward, is about the ability of the fan base to understand the real level and source of dysfunction and act appropriately. Removing the blinders of tradition-based and excitement-based expectation is not that easy and it invariably results in (pardon the lack of decorum) people losing their ****.

I believe the best place outside of our team to see the cycle we're in is Nebraska. We could learn many lessons from them as they began the cycle of bad decisions a few years before we did. They either went with the big-name coach who did not fit the cultural mold, loaded them incredibly high expectations, then sacked them when they weren't good enough fast enough (Callahan) or they tried returning to their strengths but were hampered by assistant coaching choices and changes in game rules from their glory days (Pelini). Their latest hire is the alumni homer hire; I am interested to see how it plays out.
 
#21
#21
It’s fair to be skeptical but some y’all are deadset on him being fired in three years. I’d like to hear your thoughts on why? No one on our team and I mean no one would start for bama or GA. I can’t remember the last time we were ever that bad. We prob won’t have any all Americans named either except for maybe Bryce Thompson and Tae Taylor
 
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#25
#25
One of my daughters played NCAA Division III soccer. (Generally, smaller schools and no official sports scholarships, nod nod, wink wink.) The recruiting period was a whirlwind courtship, and the coach made her (and us) believe that she was what he and the team needed to move the team to the top of the conference.

When the season started, it became painfully obvious that she had been recruited as the backup for her position, along with bringing the academics. Lesson learned.

She was hurt and pissed and everything else (including after requiring shoulder surgery after a seriously bad training session ordered by the coach), but she never gave up trying, coming off the bench whenever she had a chance, including getting her nose broken after having her face kicked by an attacking forward. She was team captain for the three years that she was there, and she still holds team records 15 years later. The coach was a jerk, doing what coaches do when recruiting, life is unfair, you move on.

I have no sympathy for athletes who get surprised or disappointed when they get to college and things aren't as expected. Pull up your big boy britches and get out there and play. I hope that in 2019 we put pads on the cheerleaders before allowing the whiny-asses back on the team to be Tennessee Vols.
 
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