Bernie Sanders Thread

[BeecherVol]

Yes, immediate family. The propaganda about how bad things are in those places will be a waste of time on me.

I have immediate that has lived in a couple of those.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Denmark, Norway, Germany, Finland, Canada, Ireland, Sweden, etc.

Not only has it worked in those places, they are actually the most truly socialist countries in the world.

Literally none of those countries sans Canada are a good example of socialism working. The European ones bleed you dry on income tax AND have immigration issues (pro diversity) that are destroying them.

caveat- I've been to them all so I know first hand.

 

[DC_Vol]

No, it is arrogance. You assume I haven't experienced "opportunity." How could anyone who isn't destitute disagree with 21st century American conservatism, right?

"Empowering central authority" is empty rhetoric. If you truly felt that way, you wouldn't even want a republic, let alone an office where one person can unilaterally bomb countries or make executive acts.

What I'm driven by is mercy, human dignity, and building for a better future. My eyes are open and fully functional.

:good!: all right, bud.

I won't argue with your misstatements about my position or the ridiculous diversion you attempted. It's a waste of time.

One question to the Bernie guys and girls: Would the people who actually want more of other people's stuff please identify themselves? All I can seem to find here are the people who are on the socialism train because they are compassionate.

 

[Mtntrout]

Literally none of those countries sans Canada are a good example of socialism working. The European ones bleed you dry on income tax AND have immigration issues (pro diversity) that are destroying them.

caveat- I've been to them all so I know first hand.

Your first hand "knowledge" doesn't speak well about your ability to learn. People in those countries are better off than the average American terms of quality of life. Many of them are legitimately shocked to learn that we lack many social programs that are standard in every other (every. other.) western nation.

Can you (or someone else who thinks there are no successful socialist countries) give me a list of highly successful countries without socialism? Or just a list of highly successful countries, actually. If it isn't northern European nations, I can only assume you think the entire world is a post-apocalyptic wasteland or some sort of authoritarian dystopia.

 

[Mtntrout]

:good!: all right, bud.

I won't argue with your misstatements about my position or the ridiculous diversion you attempted. It's a waste of time.

Hypocrisy, sweet.

 

[Mtntrout]

One question to the Bernie guys and girls: Would the people who actually want more of other people's stuff please identify themselves? All I can seem to find here are the people who are on the socialism train because they are compassionate.

Arrogance.

 

[DC_Vol]

Hypocrisy, sweet.

:victory:

Yes, I'm a huge hypocrite. I don't like the concept of socialism and yet I'm not trying to sink the Republic. How do I look at myself in the mirror???

Arrogance.

You can continue to call me arrogant...that's OK. But it's a legitimate question, and it goes back to one of the observations I initially put out there.

:acute: I still pity you.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Your first hand "knowledge" doesn't speak well about your ability to learn. People in those countries are better off than the average American terms of quality of life. Many of them are legitimately shocked to learn that we lack many social programs that are standard in every other (every. other.) western nation.

Can you (or someone else who thinks there are no successful socialist countries) give me a list of highly successful countries without socialism? Or just a list of highly successful countries, actually. If it isn't northern European nations, I can only assume you think the entire world is a post-apocalyptic wasteland or some sort of authoritarian dystopia.

Ever wonder why socialist countries contribute nothing to the improvement of humanity? Where have all of the progressive gains come from? It isn't some Denmark entrepreneur, it isn't some Swedish scientist, it wasn't a Canadian financial wiz..

Stop for a second. Look around you. 99% chance that everything you see and everything that is part of your life did NOT come from a socialist country.

And quality of life? Remember most socialist countries are highly NON diverse. Of course their "quality of life" is going to be better. They aren't exposed to the daily barrage of crime thanks to the pasts mistakes. And their quality of life is only comparable to what they have, which is usually garbage.

In America..when you leave your dwelling..do you take your floor with you? Yeah...didn't think so..

 

[Obsessed]

Yes, immediate family. The propaganda about how bad things are in those places will be a waste of time on me.

I know some as well. They share a different opinion than you. (Germans)

 

[Mtntrout]

Ever wonder why socialist countries contribute nothing to the improvement of humanity? Where have all of the progressive gains come from? It isn't some Denmark entrepreneur, it isn't some Swedish scientist, it wasn't a Canadian financial wiz..

Stop for a second. Look around you. 99% chance that everything you see and everything that is part of your life did NOT come from a socialist country.

I often wonder how people can parrot baseless claims "socialist countries contribute nothing to the improvement of humanity" and not feel any need to do even a cursory fact check. Never you mind the many easily found humanitarian acts of those countries you could google. I mean, "nothing" is a pretty low bar to evaluate. Ever filled up at a Shell? There's "something." I'm sure if you make any attempt, you'd find many, many, many things those countries contribute to the global economy and to humanity.

Could you list the countries that are socialism free?

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

That sounds good. What is that exactly?

Infrastructure, public schools, military defense (not aggression), NASA, alternative energy sources, post secondary training and education, etc. Helping those who can't help themselves, due to debilitating physical or mental illnesses. Children in low income homes and the elderly. That sort of stuff.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

Could you list the countries that are socialism free?

Just like there are different interpretations of capitalism, there are different interpretations of socialism. People hear the word and it's 1950s Red Scare all over again. The socialists of the USSR and Venezuela aren't the socialists of Sweden. There is a difference between a country that nationalizes all or most industry and a country that attempts to decrease the disparities between the rich and the poor.

The U.S. has implemented socialist ideas for the past century and people don't say a word about it until the dreaded S word is said.

Interstate highway system
Public schools
Highways
Road signs
Many electric and water companies
Vaccines
Medicare/Medicaid
Social security
Public universities
Much of the technology we use today was pioneered by NASA
Military defense
Subsidized student loans
Pell grants

A "free market" society doesn't exist and never will. I definitely support the free enterprise system here in the U.S. I just think we have an imbalance of wealth distribution when it comes to our productivity.

 

[Mtntrout]

Just like there are different interpretations of capitalism, there are different interpretations of socialism. People hear the word and it's 1950s Red Scare all over again. The socialists of the USSR and Venezuela aren't the socialists of Sweden. There is a difference between a country that nationalizes all or most industry and a country that attempts to decrease the disparities between the rich and the poor.

The U.S. has implemented socialist ideas for the past century and people don't say a word about it until the dreaded S word is said.

Interstate highway system
Public schools
Highways
Road signs
Many electric and water companies
Vaccines
Medicare/Medicaid
Social security
Public universities
Much of the technology we use today was pioneered by NASA
Military defense
Subsidized student loans
Pell grants

A "free market" society doesn't exist and never will. I definitely support the free enterprise system here in the U.S. I just think we have an imbalance of wealth distribution when it comes to our productivity.

DC Vol probably feels sorry for you.

 

[BeecherVol]

Infrastructure, public schools, military defense (not aggression), NASA, alternative energy sources, post secondary training and education, etc. Helping those who can't help themselves, due to debilitating physical or mental illnesses. Children in low income homes and the elderly. That sort of stuff.

Solid list. Be nice if we wasn't already throwing money at those and several more without much to show for it.

 

[Mtntrout]

Here's some benefits from NASA: https://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2008/tech_benefits.html

Off hand, military defense has given us GPS which has revolutionized many aspects of commerce and industry.

Alternative energy sources is easy when you live in TVA country.

I could go on, but you get the idea. The benefits are in our lives every day, to the point we apparently take them for granted.

 

[BeecherVol]

A "free market" society doesn't exist and never will. I definitely support the free enterprise system here in the U.S. I just think we have an imbalance of wealth distribution when it comes to our productivity.

Thats the interesting part IMO.

Who gets to decide when the scales look right?

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

Here's some benefits from NASA: https://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2008/tech_benefits.html

Off hand, military defense has given us GPS which has revolutionized many aspects of commerce and industry.

Alternative energy sources is easy when you live in TVA country.

I could go on, but you get the idea. The benefits are in our lives every day, to the point we apparently take them for granted.

Exactly. Every person in here has directly or indirectly benefited from "socialist" policies in the U.S. Are they all perfect? No. Are all capitalist policies bad? No. A healthy mixture of both philosophies has been the bread and butter of the United States since we began our reign as economic giants.

 

[BeecherVol]

You can pay 100$ for a bottle of water and receive benefits.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

Thats the interesting part IMO.

Who gets to decide when the scales look right?

When this trend is corrected, would be a start. Productivity of the American worker has increased at a higher rate than their compensation. Basically you're working harder, but you're not being paid as much as workers once were for that same amount of effort. At the same time, compensation for the upper class hasn't stagnated.

This info is from the BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) and the EPI (Economic Policy Institute).

 

[McDad]

When this trend is corrected, would be a start. Productivity of the American worker has increased at a higher rate than their compensation. Basically you're working harder, but you're not being paid as much as workers once were for that same amount of effort. At the same time, compensation for the upper class hasn't stagnated.

This info is from the BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) and the EPI (Economic Policy Institute).

Increased production does not always equate to harder work or more strenuous effort.

 

[BeecherVol]

When this trend is corrected, would be a start.

This info is from the BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) and the EPI (Economic Policy Institute).

So you believe it should go past the correction of the graph.

 

[BeecherVol]

Increased production does not always equate to harder work or more strenuous effort.

True

 

[DC_Vol]

DC Vol probably feels sorry for you.

Gold star. You are correct!

I feel sorry for anyone who lives in this country and actively pursues a more powerful central government to correct their perceived social injustices. It really only boils down to the phrase he used, "wealth redistribution". That's what it is really about.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

Increased production does not always equate to harder work or more strenuous effort.

That's true, a person can be productive without doing back breaking labor, but does that mean workers from the 40s to the 70s (arguably the most prosperous time in American history) were overpaid for their production?

And is it okay that people are now being paid roughly half that of their productivity levels? Would it benefit more Americans if they had that extra income from their productivity? Or is it best that it goes to the executives/owners?

Interestingly enough, that same time frame was when Americans began getting themselves in high debt. Probably because their expected standard of living (the American Dream) was no longer being sustained by their wages, forcing many to rely on credit.

 

[G0 BIG 0RANGE]

So you believe it should go past the correction of the graph.

Average worker pay should have kept up with productivity levels, not exceeded it. That would be money for nothing. Kind of like how many CEOs today earn their 7 figure salaries.