Bennie Wylie more conditioning, less strength

#27
#27
andymuffins said:
I have a friend who used to be an Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach to Shannon Turley at Stanford, let's say his name is "Luke".
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Is "Luke" currently employed as a S&C coach or as an assistant? What's he doing now?
 
#28
#28
Randy Floyd said:
Interesting. however, I would guess if you ask 50 different SC coaches they would give you 50 different philosophies and techniques.
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In some ways, yes, in other ways, not at all.

Here's the issue. Strength training is yesterday's science. People who know how to train athletes for sport specific performance understand that the correlation between large musculature (hypertrophy) and the ability to deliver that potential is called power. They have power training routines which are highly individualized to the specific needs of each player.

Power? what is that? Rudimentary: force=mass*acceleration where the ability to deliver force is the combination of large muscles directed by the brain and secondary nervous systems. Muscles have no intelligence.

Case in point: Justin Hunter; extreme capacity to generate power (height in jump) without the leg musculature of, say, Luke Stocker. Muscles are only as good as the ability to use them.

If one looks at the typical NCAA S/C coach' regimen for football players, you will see many similarities. They are strength (hypertrophy) based programs and if there is true power training, it is by team not by individual need.

Head coaches like CDD haven't a clue to what a real power training coach expertise includes so...they often hire the ones who do the Ra-Ra. Why? Because this supports their feeling that a S/C coach should be about "4th quarter" results. Make them tough. Bond the team. All about conditioning.
I also know someone close to the program and they told me Wiley was the real deal, and they loved Asmuson (spelling) - pointed out the positive "development" of Malik Jackson (who this person claimed, came in looking like NFL material but out of shape) I also found it interesting that no one crosses Bennie - he holds a lot of respect around the players - was told if someone "acts up" they talk to Dooley and Bennie is sitting right next to him. All I know is that the players, coaches, and people that work around him respect him and think he is doing a great job.
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All these things you point out are + things. Nonetheless, it doesn't negate the fact that NCAA S/C coaches (why not Power/Conditioning?) too often perform these supervisory roles for coaches without maximizing the available science and individualizing programs.

I have been to many NCAA S/C and their weight rooms. When having this discussion (Clemson comes to mind), the S/C coaches get all huffy, they do not like the fact that their approaches are historically antiquated.
 
#29
#29
sjt18 said:
This is the answer... if there was actually a question.

BW's resume was what he did with TTU's S&C program.
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"What he did" is entirely speculative since "what he did" was neither properly studied nor tested. "What he did" is empirically based.
 
#30
#30
andymuffins said:
I have a friend who used to be an Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach to Shannon Turley at Stanford, let's say his name is "Luke".

We had a long conversation about a month ago regarding Bennie Wylie. Now I don't profess to know a lot about S&C, but Luke knows his stuff, not saying he's the best or even smarter than any other S&C coach but he does know what he's talking about and was directly responsible for Toby Gehrhart's improvement and development.

He said the general consensus is that there are two types of S&C Coaches, there are the Player Development Coaches and there are the RA! RA! Coaches.

Luke calls BW a RA! RA! Coach, which focuses more on Conditioning type workouts and less in strength, general development, etc.
Now he said there is nothing inherently wrong with this model, it's just that different schools are able to run their S&C program in different ways, sometimes it depends on there schemes and others it depends on their talent.
He said the reality is, that at a place like Stanford, player development is a necessity, they cannot always get the best and greatest talent in the country, it's just not going to happen because of academics, so they must focus on development, same thing with smaller schools, less known, etc.

He also said that any coach that actually participates in workouts is not really coaching, which BW does do. Again though, he said this may all be part of the plan or template at Tennessee, he may have assistants that are actually doing the "coaching" part and that he is simply the big scary drill sergeant that all the players are "afraid" of and that he is actually just the "face" of the program.

All of what he said made sense though I don't necessarily agree. What I do feel is that Strength and Conditioning from a Coaches standpoint has more opinions than The View.

I don't know if he's right or wrong, I just thought it was an interesting perspective on our program.
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Didn't one of his Texas Tech players bench 600 or 700 lbs?
 
#31
#31
I like bennie wylie (i think he put too much weight on Oku) and what i have seen from the players. Hell I liked that Smith guy that lasted about 3 weeks.
I think we can all agree that they are all better than Johnny Long
 
#34
#34
along the lines of what Ari said ...

friend of mine is a trainer and is familiar with the S&C program at app state. he said the results on the field were "quite noticeable" when app st went to more of a core and speed conditioning approach instead of the "traditional" strength training.

i'll ask what ra ra is next time i see him.
 
#35
#35
Ari Silverstein said:
Head coaches like CDD haven't a clue to what a real power training coach expertise includes so...they often hire the ones who do the Ra-Ra. Why? Because this supports their feeling that a S/C coach should be about "4th quarter" results. Make them tough. Bond the team. All about conditioning.All these things you point out are + things. Nonetheless, it doesn't negate the fact that NCAA S/C coaches (why not Power/Conditioning?) too often perform these supervisory roles for coaches without maximizing the available science and individualizing programs.
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have you even read about BW's methods? Really seems like you haven't
 
#38
#38
andymuffins said:
I have a friend who used to be an Assistant Strength and Conditioning Coach to Shannon Turley at Stanford, let's say his name is "Luke".

We had a long conversation about a month ago regarding Bennie Wylie. Now I don't profess to know a lot about S&C, but Luke knows his stuff, not saying he's the best or even smarter than any other S&C coach but he does know what he's talking about and was directly responsible for Toby Gehrhart's improvement and development.

He said the general consensus is that there are two types of S&C Coaches, there are the Player Development Coaches and there are the RA! RA! Coaches.

Luke calls BW a RA! RA! Coach, which focuses more on Conditioning type workouts and less in strength, general development, etc.
Now he said there is nothing inherently wrong with this model, it's just that different schools are able to run their S&C program in different ways, sometimes it depends on there schemes and others it depends on their talent.
He said the reality is, that at a place like Stanford, player development is a necessity, they cannot always get the best and greatest talent in the country, it's just not going to happen because of academics, so they must focus on development, same thing with smaller schools, less known, etc.

He also said that any coach that actually participates in workouts is not really coaching, which BW does do. Again though, he said this may all be part of the plan or template at Tennessee, he may have assistants that are actually doing the "coaching" part and that he is simply the big scary drill sergeant that all the players are "afraid" of and that he is actually just the "face" of the program.

All of what he said made sense though I don't necessarily agree. What I do feel is that Strength and Conditioning from a Coaches standpoint has more opinions than The View.

I don't know if he's right or wrong, I just thought it was an interesting perspective on our program.
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Toby was a monster at Norco HS. I've been to a few of his games out here in So Cal. I can't give your guy credit for a naturally gifted beast like Gerhart.
 
#40
#40
tm3 said:
along the lines of what Ari said ...

friend of mine is a trainer and is familiar with the S&C program at app state. he said the results on the field were "quite noticeable" when app st went to more of a core and speed conditioning approach instead of the "traditional" strength training.

i'll ask what ra ra is next time i see him.
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Appalachian State has a stellar reputation in the study and research of the sciences of human movement, strength and power generation and accelerated sports performance. My :hi:to them.
 
#43
#43
Ari Silverstein said:
Appalachian State has a stellar reputation in the study and research of the sciences of human movement, strength and power generation and accelerated sports performance. My :hi:to them.
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Hey, I go there. :hi: to you as well. GBO.
 
#44
#44
Dbake005 said:
Hey, I go to Appalachian State. :hi: to you as well. GBO.
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When I began my education in strength and power training, I visited several university Physiology and Exercise Science departments and NCAA strength coaches. The glaring chasm of knowledge separation between the two was astounding.

At ASU, I ran into several researchers in strength/neuromuscular physiology and they became friends and constant correspondents. I am grateful to this day for their kind interest in me. :cray:
 
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