Before Butch finalizes his staff, look at UGA

#28
#28
Winning helps recruiting

Plus, the recruits see the same issues with Jones as the fans and media

Then coaches use Jones' cliches and coach speak against him

"Would you rather come to Alabama where we win National Titles instead of Tennessee where they only win Championships of Life?"
 
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#29
#29
UGA doesn't do a very good job of keeping their best talent home...just like Florida. Then when they do get great talent, they underachieve. I predict Smart will continue that tradition.
 
#30
#30
CountVolcula said:
Winning helps recruiting

Plus, the recruits see the same issues with Jones as the fans and media

Then coaches use Jones' cliches and coach speak against him

"Would you rather come to Alabama where we win National Titles instead of Tennessee where they only win Championships of Life?"
Click to expand...

I really doubt that. Coach speak is coach speak. If recruits really worried about that, they'd be concerned with Saban's weekly whine sessions about the big bad mean ol' media.
 
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#31
#31
BeecherVol said:
Smart is in a similar to position that Jones was in 3 or 4 years ago. He's selling an idea and recruits are buying it. He has one more class or so of that before he's gonna have to stand on what that idea actually produces. If he makes it payoff on the field and in player development he will open the door to more similar classes in the future. If not, his classes will slip and his chances of surviving will dwindle.

One advantage Jones should have opposite of Smart is that he has passed the timeline of selling what you re gonna do, into the area of here is what we are doing and have done.
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Yep. New car smell. If smart can take advantage of it and win, he can secure the state and limit our efforts there. Should be interesting to watch it play out. Right now I don't see anything Butch can do to offset the excitement surrounding the dawg program right now short of winning and winning big. New coaches may help the product on the field, but everyone knows Butch faces a defining year in 2017. Bet many a top recruit in GA and around the country will be taking a wait and see approach with UT.
 
#32
#32
Anyone remember Rodney Garner? He coached at UT in the late '90s. He was adept at recruiting Georgia, brought some talent north of the border to the Vols. UGA stole him from Tennessee. Now, he's at his alma mater, Auburn.
 
#33
#33
CAVPUT said:
Yep. New car smell. If smart can take advantage of it and win, he can secure the state and limit our efforts there. Should be interesting to watch it play out. Right now I don't see anything Butch can do to offset the excitement surrounding the dawg program right now short of winning and winning big. New coaches may help the product on the field, but everyone knows Butch faces a defining year in 2017. Bet many a top recruit in GA and around the country will be taking a wait and see approach with UT.
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Recruiting is a pretty decent gauge for where you are and its a reflection of where you have been.
 
#34
#34
xfactorutk said:
I think it is hard to lure great coaches/recruiters to UT right now with an administration that is so passive about athletics and clearly in no hurry to hire an AD. UT is still a top-10 job, but isn't appealing for those looking to climb the ladder right now. What you're saying, I totally get and agree. I just don't know if it is viable in our current state.

Side Note: UGA always recruits well. Nobody does less with more.
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My question here is, if Tennessee is still a top 10 job then why have we settled for the 4th or 5th best coach the last 2 hires. I think Jones has done wonders reviving the program and I back him all the way, but he wasn't the boom hire we expected, neither was Dooley. And if I've not misunderstood I think CBJ salary ranks pretty high nationally (could be wrong on that).
 
#35
#35
CountVolcula said:
Winning helps recruiting

Plus, the recruits see the same issues with Jones as the fans and media

Then coaches use Jones' cliches and coach speak against him

"Would you rather come to Alabama where we win National Titles instead of Tennessee where they only win Championships of Life?"
Click to expand...

Everyone knows Volnation is to blame! (Blue font)
 
#36
#36
Vfl2407 said:
Some down here in Georgia are saying that UGA just got their best class ever.
We only got 3 players out of Georgia this cycle.
Historically, our program has thrived off of state of Georgia talent.

So, why not find out who are considered UGA's best recruiters and see if we could match them up with a position to coach. Then, go to President DiPietro with a request for a big check to lure that coach to UT.
We would be strengthening our recruiting staff while hurting one of our big eastern division rivals.

Here's a link to Georgia's staff...at bottom of link.

2016 UGA Football Roster | Georgia Bulldogs
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I suppose Kirby Smart had nothing to do with any of it
 
#37
#37
It pains me to say it, but the assistants on the UGA staff have a much better track record of either coaching in the NFL or putting players in the NFL. Much better. Winning does cure everything and that includes recruiting, but most of the blue chippers out there are going to decide where to go based on who they feel has the best shot at getting them into the league. I'm almost certain that's what happened with Gibbs and his cousin.

It's time for Coach Jones to upgrade his coaching staff or we better get used to playing catch up in recruiting.
 
#38
#38
Coachmike17 said:
My question here is, if Tennessee is still a top 10 job then why have we settled for the 4th or 5th best coach the last 2 hires. I think Jones has done wonders reviving the program and I back him all the way, but he wasn't the boom hire we expected, neither was Dooley. And if I've not misunderstood I think CBJ salary ranks pretty high nationally (could be wrong on that).
Click to expand...

Kiffin's recruiting antics caused an NCAA investigation that resulted in UT being put on probation. Dooley was brought in because of his honesty and the administration trusted him to not break any NCAA rules. Bryce Brown walked into Dooley's office shortly after he was hired and asked if he was going to still get the weekly checks Kiffin had promised him. Dooley said no, we don't do that here anymore so Brown quit the team
 
#39
#39
Vfl2407 said:
Some down here in Georgia are saying that UGA just got their best class ever.
We only got 3 players out of Georgia this cycle.
Historically, our program has thrived off of state of Georgia talent.

So, why not find out who are considered UGA's best recruiters and see if we could match them up with a position to coach. Then, go to President DiPietro with a request for a big check to lure that coach to UT.
We would be strengthening our recruiting staff while hurting one of our big eastern division rivals.

Here's a link to Georgia's staff...at bottom of link.

2016 UGA Football Roster | Georgia Bulldogs
Click to expand...

True but look at all the good Florida talent we got...Florida has the best players in the South...
 
#40
#40
Coachmike17 said:
My question here is, if Tennessee is still a top 10 job then why have we settled for the 4th or 5th best coach the last 2 hires. I think Jones has done wonders reviving the program and I back him all the way, but he wasn't the boom hire we expected, neither was Dooley. And if I've not misunderstood I think CBJ salary ranks pretty high nationally (could be wrong on that).
Click to expand...

Nobody else within the Vols price range wanted the job...remember the three top choices were Gruden, Stong and then Jones as an after thought.
 
#41
#41
Vfl2407 said:
Some down here in Georgia are saying that UGA just got their best class ever.
We only got 3 players out of Georgia this cycle.
Historically, our program has thrived off of state of Georgia talent.

So, why not find out who are considered UGA's best recruiters and see if we could match them up with a position to coach. Then, go to President DiPietro with a request for a big check to lure that coach to UT.
We would be strengthening our recruiting staff while hurting one of our big eastern division rivals.

Here's a link to Georgia's staff...at bottom of link.

2016 UGA Football Roster | Georgia Bulldogs
Click to expand...

Larry Scott has opened south Florida up to us which is why there are fewer GA guys in this class. You have a 2:15 PM appointment with DiPietro to discuss the request on Thursday,02/09/2017. Good Luck.
 
#42
#42
Butch is now getting into the similar territory where Dooley was at the end of his third year. Dooley's gamble was that his first early class that had some great o-line and wr's was going to start winning once they get some experience. It almost worked since he got very close to winning all the big games other than Bama at the end of his final year but horrible defense (result of his bad recruiting and hiring Sal) was the final nail in his coffin. Butch was supposed to have his first great year last year when his early top 5 classes got experience (and easy schedule). That did not happen and now that most of those guys are gone it's rebuilding time again but the recruits now know he failed to deliver which makes it hard to recruit at the same level. Butch gets another year or two since he did have a better W-L than Dooley, but other than that there are a lot of similarities. Butch is a dead man walking, unless he dramatically turns it around next year which does not seem likely when the talent level has dropped off.
 
#43
#43
TGVol said:
Butch is now getting into the similar territory where Dooley was at the end of his third year. Dooley's gamble was that his first early class that had some great o-line and wr's was going to start winning once they get some experience. It almost worked since he got very close to winning all the big games other than Bama at the end of his final year but horrible defense (result of his bad recruiting and hiring Sal) was the final nail in his coffin. Butch was supposed to have his first great year last year when his early top 5 classes got experience (and easy schedule). That did not happen and now that most of those guys are gone it's rebuilding time again but the recruits now know he failed to deliver which makes it hard to recruit at the same level. Butch gets another year or two since he did have a better W-L than Dooley, but other than that there are a lot of similarities. Butch is a dead man walking, unless he dramatically turns it around next year which does not seem likely when the talent level has dropped off.
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I swear fans have forgotten how bad Dooley was. Dooley won 4 SEC games in 3 years. Butch won 4 SEC games last year. The only East teams Dooley beat were Vandy and UK. Butch has beaten them all. Dooley won 15 games in 3 seasons. Butch won 18 games in 2 seasons.

SEC East finish
2010: 4th out of 6
2011: 6th out of 6
2012: 6th out of 7 (when Dooley was fired we were tied with UK for last place)

2013: 6th out of 7
2014: 4th out of 7
2015: 2nd out of 7
2016: 2nd out of 7

Dooley got worse over time, Butch got better.
 
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#44
#44
CountVolcula said:
Winning helps recruiting

Plus, the recruits see the same issues with Jones as the fans and media

Then coaches use Jones' cliches and coach speak against him

"Would you rather come to Alabama where we win National Titles instead of Tennessee where they only win Championships of Life?"
Click to expand...

Well....and they could use the example of SCe and Muschamp beating us with a QB who should've still been playing HS FB when we had a SR QB who is arguably our best QB since Manning at the helm....

It's just flat out embarrassing that we lost to both SCe and Vandy last year.....and that stuff is used very effectively against us on the recruiting trail....

The only way to shut them up is to WIN those games....I mean, 2 straight years and 4 losses to teams we should've beaten is being consistently bad coaching and enough evidence in the minds of many to see a developing pattern...
 
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#45
#45
08Vol said:
I swear fans have forgotten how bad Dooley was. Dooley won 4 SEC games in 3 years. Butch won 4 SEC games last year. The only East teams Dooley beat were Vandy and UK. Butch has beaten them all. Dooley won 15 games in 3 seasons. Butch won 18 games in 2 seasons.

SEC East finish
2010: 4th out of 6
2011: 6th out of 6
2012: 6th out of 7 (when Dooley was fired we were tied with UK for last place)

2013: 6th out of 7
2014: 4th out of 7
2015: 2nd out of 7
2016: 2nd out of 7

Dooley got worse over time, Butch got better.
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Well....where do you factor in that Fla and UGA were much worse than their teams during Dooley's tenure?

And SCe and Vandy, too??

There is NO DOUBT that CBJ and crew are MUCH better than Dooley and crew---but how is that really any comfort is what I'm trying to understand....It's like saying that one turd stinks worse than another....It's all still CRAP!
 
#46
#46
Major uptick in recruiting in LA and FL this cycle. Nice pulls from Bama, North Carolina, Texas and Mississippi. Vol recruiting is prepared to move beyond Georgia in a big way and we'll still get our share.
 
#47
#47
BeecherVol said:
One advantage Jones should have opposite of Smart is that he has passed the timeline of selling what you re gonna do, into the area of here is what we are doing and have done.
Click to expand...

At the moment, Smart's 'what we're gonna do' is looking a hell of a lot better than Jone's 'what we are doing'....
 
#48
#48
08Vol said:
Dooley got worse over time, Butch got better.
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While this is true, Butch has still severely under-performed especially this year where he actually did not get better compared to the year before. Remember that this was supposed to be a top 10 team playing for SEC championship and maybe playoffs? None of that materialized and that is why Butch made it to hot seat list at just about every site that tracks this type of stuff. To make things worse looking ahead, his best players have graduated or left so another rebuilding effort is under way which is not going as smoothly as when he was first hired (sub-par recruiting class he just signed proves it).
 
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