Basketball - there is a problem

[tennrich1]

It's early

Barnes subbed a TON

Early week game against a lack luster opponent with a big weekend tournament on the horizon

ITS GOING TO BE OK

While I thought the intensity and concentration wasn't there last night it obvious that Coach Barnes is trying to get these freshmen as much time as possible before league play. When Bowden is off and LT's shoulder still is a problem (having struggled with shoulder problems myself it can really be a challenge) we will look kinda ugly. I think we will need Pons and Fulk to be at their peak in some of the games coming up. But they have shown they can both play on a much higher level. To me this will have to be a great coaching year as well. And I will trust Rick and company to get us back to the NCAA...I am however concerned about the struggle at the FT line. That however can be fixed!

 

[BACKDOC]

Ok - I hate to be that guy … but someone has to say it. I am seeing the ball sticking in Turner's hands wayyy too much. I know what you are going to say - 11 assists, but the ball has gotten very sticky in his hands - it's not moving through everyone's hands and as a result it appears to be the LT show. I know that you can dribble and create Lemonte -- but move the ball and get the rest of the team more involved. 4 for 16 shooting is likely because some of those shots should have never been taken - and when he takes more shots that James, Pons, and Fulkerson combined; imho there is a problem.

The offense has gotten stagnant -- while I am watching him dribble. I will give you some dribbling is necessary - he is stopping out front, showing off his skills, meanwhile everyone else is not involved. The last two games he has reverted from moving the ball to watch me dribble. JMHO
I saw this happen last year and he soon wasn't playing point. He plays a good pg for a few games and then falls in love with dribbling, stopping out front, looking for ways to dribble drive more etc. My suggestion …. Move the ball.

He isn't taking bad shots; I do remember one last night was ill advised; he just isn't hitting them.

 

[Larkin]

Ok - I hate to be that guy … but someone has to say it. I am seeing the ball sticking in Turner's hands wayyy too much. I know what you are going to say - 11 assists, but the ball has gotten very sticky in his hands - it's not moving through everyone's hands and as a result it appears to be the LT show. I know that you can dribble and create Lemonte -- but move the ball and get the rest of the team more involved. 4 for 16 shooting is likely because some of those shots should have never been taken - and when he takes more shots that James, Pons, and Fulkerson combined; imho there is a problem.

The offense has gotten stagnant -- while I am watching him dribble. I will give you some dribbling is necessary - he is stopping out front, showing off his skills, meanwhile everyone else is not involved. The last two games he has reverted from moving the ball to watch me dribble. JMHO
I saw this happen last year and he soon wasn't playing point. He plays a good pg for a few games and then falls in love with dribbling, stopping out front, looking for ways to dribble drive more etc. My suggestion …. Move the ball.

Congrats...you're "that guy"

 

[Hank Bukowski]

Ok - I hate to be that guy … but someone has to say it. I am seeing the ball sticking in Turner's hands wayyy too much. I know what you are going to say - 11 assists, but the ball has gotten very sticky in his hands - it's not moving through everyone's hands and as a result it appears to be the LT show. I know that you can dribble and create Lemonte -- but move the ball and get the rest of the team more involved. 4 for 16 shooting is likely because some of those shots should have never been taken - and when he takes more shots that James, Pons, and Fulkerson combined; imho there is a problem.

The offense has gotten stagnant -- while I am watching him dribble. I will give you some dribbling is necessary - he is stopping out front, showing off his skills, meanwhile everyone else is not involved. The last two games he has reverted from moving the ball to watch me dribble. JMHO
I saw this happen last year and he soon wasn't playing point. He plays a good pg for a few games and then falls in love with dribbling, stopping out front, looking for ways to dribble drive more etc. My suggestion …. Move the ball.

Fair critique of one key player. But, from the post title, I was kind of expecting to see something about a more concerning issue (to me): our lack of depth and lack of building depth. We only have two players averaging more than 10 minutes per game off the bench. Coach seems to like a core rotation of seven players, just like last year. I trust Barnes totally and completely but would like to ask him about how we build our team stamina over a long season with a rotation of only seven. Building a solid, productive bench seems to me to be the priority for this team.

 

[TheMookieMonster]

Nobody else wants it. There were at least 10 instances last night when I saw a player get the ball with the potential to drive and immediately pass it back to Turner or whoever is standing at the top of the key. It was JJJ a lot of the time. If he doesn't develope offensively then we may very well end up in the NIT.

Vol Nation never ceases to amaze me with their complete meltdown mode at the slightest hint of adversity. We had a bad night. Didn't shoot well. Made some mistakes. It happens with a team as young as this, but we're the #17 team in the country and dominated a Washington team with 2 likely lottery picks on their roster just a week ago. We're not an NIT team. That's a ridiculous notion. I agree that some of our players are a little too passive right now, but again, that is to be expected with youth. JJJ is already shooting the ball more than he did in the first game.

Just stop being so negative people. We're 5-0!

 

[cardvolfan]

That's exactly my point. If you see that score margin without watching the game the assumption could have been Chattanooga is a cupcake and the real challenge will be Friday night with FSU---trap game thinking. Watching Chattanooga last night, I think it may be a very good mid-major. The Mocs have some players. The Vols didn't seem anywhere near as focused as they were against Washington.

Personally, I don't think UTC, at season's end, will end up being a very good mid-major. Vols were lethargic, fumbling, passive, and just didn't play with a lot of grit.

 

[cncchris33]

In the Washington game - Pons, James, Fulkerson took 25 shots - the ball movement was better. Last night those three took 15 shots. Their opportunities to score were cut almost in half while Lemonte dribbled. The few looks they got were not good ones because there was no ball movement.

This is a problem - I get people may not see it - but there is a problem that will impact the success of this team imho.

I think the problem is a little more complex than you’re making it seem. It isn’t just as simple as saying these three players took X number of shots vs this UW, and only took Y number of shots vs Chattanooga.

•Tennessee had 14 more offensive possessions vs Washington than they did vs Chattanooga, thus more opportunities.

•How many of those three players’ 15 FTs were the result of missed shots which don’t technically count as shot attempts if you are fouled and miss the shot?

•Why did Pons revert back to his passive ways against Chattanooga? The real difference in the three players you specifically mentioned falls almost entirely on him.

James was 4-4 vs UW and 2-6 vs Chatt. Not a huge discrepancy.
Fulk was 4-8 vs UW and 4-4 vs Chatt. Again, nothing major.
Pons was 7-13 vs UW and 1-5 vs Chatt.

Pons wasn’t aggressive offensively, at all, except for the two times he went to the basket and got fouled. He didn’t demand the ball and he led the team in TOs.

And I understand what you’re saying about Turner, and again, I don’t totally disagree. But when Tennessee needs a basket, I know Turner isn’t scared of that moment. And in the end, his 16 attempts was only 4 more than the 12 he took vs UW. You’re leader in FG attempts shooting 25% isn’t ideal, but his 12 assists tells me he had a hand in 12 of the other 15 made baskets by his teammates, so he is contributing even when his shot isn’t falling. Not many will argue against the idea that he needs to be more judicious with his decision-making if he is off the mark, though.

 

[cardvolfan]

I think the problem is a little more complex than you’re making it seem. It isn’t just as simple as saying these three players took X number of shots vs this UW, and only took Y number of shots vs Chattanooga.

•Tennessee had 14 more offensive possessions vs Washington than they did vs Chattanooga, thus more opportunities.

•How many of those three players’ 15 FTs were the result of missed shots which don’t technically count as shot attempts if you are fouled and miss the shot?

•Why did Pons revert back to his passive ways against Chattanooga? The real difference in the three players you specifically mentioned falls almost entirely on him.

James was 4-4 vs UW and 2-6 vs Chatt. Not a huge discrepancy.
Fulk was 4-8 vs UW and 4-4 vs Chatt. Again, nothing major.
Pons was 7-13 vs UW and 1-5 vs Chatt.

Pons wasn’t aggressive offensively, at all, except for the two times he went to the basket and got fouled. He didn’t demand the ball and he led the team in TOs.

And I understand what you’re saying about Turner, and again, I don’t totally disagree. But when Tennessee needs a basket, I know Turner isn’t scared of that moment. And in the end, his 16 attempts was only 4 more than the 12 he took vs UW. You’re leader in FG attempts shooting 25% isn’t ideal, but his 12 assists tells me he had a hand in 12 of the other 15 made baskets by his teammates, so he is contributing even when his shot isn’t falling. Not many will argue against the idea that he needs to be more judicious with his decision-making if he is off the mark, though.

Pons hustled, he fought inside for position, he hustled. Simply, he played hard, but didn't play well.

 

[cncchris33]

Pons hustled, he fought inside for position, he hustled. Simply, he played hard, but didn't play well.

He may have hustled, but he was nearly invisible like he was in almost every minute of action he got over the past two seasons. This team needs him to be a factor, not a wallflower. Those days are over. He can’t fade into the background anymore, and this is the first time I’ve seen him do it this year. Hopefully he steps up the intensity and is more aggressive with the ball in his hands.

 

[Vols All Day]

Fair critique of one key player. But, from the post title, I was kind of expecting to see something about a more concerning issue (to me): our lack of depth and lack of building depth. We only have two players averaging more than 10 minutes per game off the bench. Coach seems to like a core rotation of seven players, just like last year. I trust Barnes totally and completely but would like to ask him about how we build our team stamina over a long season with a rotation of only seven. Building a solid, productive bench seems to me to be the priority for this team.

I think he would play more if he could. JJ just seems to not have it and Gaines and Pember(May be ready later) aren’t ready yet. It seems like the best case scenario for us to have a bench is for Plavsic to get eligibility and Santiago Vescovi to be ready to play when he arrives.

 

[Dougie_D]

I think this was the current game plan. Notice how Barnes substituted. He was probably trying out different situations and probably wanted LT to be more of a ball hog. Everybody watches tape. I think the plan was to throw off Florida States scouting report on us

 

[walkenvol]

Nobody else wants it. There were at least 10 instances last night when I saw a player get the ball with the potential to drive and immediately pass it back to Turner or whoever is standing at the top of the key. It was JJJ a lot of the time. If he doesn't develope offensively then we may very well end up in the NIT.

I’ll be as shocked as I was when the FB team lost the first two games this year if this Bball team isn’t in the NCAA tourney come March whether JJJ plays well or not

 

[sport3500]

Turner is Tennessee's version of Trae Young or Russell Westbrook........ facilitators that want to take the money shot at the end of the game.

 

[calban]

I’ll be as shocked as I was when the FB team lost the first two games this year if this Bball team isn’t in the NCAA tourney come March whether JJJ plays well or not

I also.

 

[calban]

I think he would play more if he could. JJ just seems to not have it and Gaines and Pember(May be ready later) aren’t ready yet. It seems like the best case scenario for us to have a bench is for Plavsic to get eligibility and Santiago Vescovi to be ready to play when he arrives.

Who would catch vescovi's passes besides Turner and Bowden? Would be like a pinball game at present.

 

[Lefteye]

I think this was the current game plan. Notice how Barnes substituted. He was probably trying out different situations and probably wanted LT to be more of a ball hog. Everybody watches tape. I think the plan was to throw off Florida States scouting report on us

This won’t be a popular opinion because football has used it for years but I absolutely think it played a part. UT was as vanilla as I’ve seen them this year.

And I’m sure it’s been brought up but make more layups and free throws and Turner isn’t dribbling too much, Pons didn’t have a terrible game and Johnson’s minutes doesn’t need to gone.

 

[Fullfillmer]

Really?, take the ball out of the hands of a player that is averaging 9 assists a game? Turner is our best " playmaker" and probably our second best shooter beyond the arc. He should be taking 12-15 shots per game on this team. James hasn't shown me that he needs to shoot more because he looks awkward ar this point shooting the ball. Great defender and rebounder but lacks offensive skills. Turner is our Jajuan Jennings. he and Bowden should be taking 50% of the teams shots

You are completely missing the point - I am suggesting no fewer touches and no less shots - but better execution and ball movement. It doesn't just happen with this team and this player - move the ball, give it up, …. he plays better, we play better with better ball and people movement. He gives up the ball - it returns to him a little later - he gets more open looks - everyone wins. And we win more games. Who knew ?

Additionally, the other 4 are much easier to defend when he is spending so much time dribbling.

 

[walkenvol]

Who would catch vescovi's passes besides Turner and Bowden? Would be like a pinball game at present.

Good point - seems like JJJ has delivered some amazing assists that the receivers couldn’t handle

 

[calban]

You are completely missing the point - I am suggesting no fewer touches and no less shots - but better execution and ball movement. It doesn't just happen with this team and this player - move the ball, give it up, …. he plays better, we play better with better ball and people movement. He gives up the ball - it returns to him a little later - he gets more open looks - everyone wins. And we win more games. Who knew ?

Additionally, the other 4 are much easier to defend when he is spending so much time dribbling.

I went back and watched to see what you were talking about. the only time I saw excessive dribbling was at the end of the game when they were killing clock. Any dribbling before that at the top of the key he was motioning players into position and waiting for them to get into position to receive his passes. Much prefer that to his earlier career at PG when he made the sloppy passes before they were ready to receive which resulted in TOs. 12-1 speaks for itself.

 

[vols 30]

Speaking of problems. Anyone think RB went a little too far needling Bob last night on the post game show?

 

[The Dog]

Speaking of problems. Anyone think RB went a little too far needling Bob last night on the post game show?

The part when he asked Bob if he thought he was a better basketball announcer or football announcer?

 

[vols 30]

The part when he asked Bob if he thought he was a better basketball announcer or football announcer?

Yes. You could Bob wanted him to stop.

I'm all for a little joking around, but RB got the fans involved last night and wouldn't let it go.

 

[The Dog]

Yeah, Barnes wouldn't let it go and it kinda got uncomfortable, but Barnes can be ruthless towards Bob. Bob is a lot better as a basketball announcer than football, imo

 

[Kosmalski]

He is brutal on Bob but my guess is it's an inside joke for them.

Bob knows what fans thing but he is still the man..

IMO Bob is a better basketball guy than football. The same was said of Ward

 

[firedog28]

James still looks a little lost to me,his most production has been rebounding.I believe he will get better as we go when he realizes we need him to be great.