Barring A Miracle, 17 and 18 are both Lost

#76
#76
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
What’s with the personal attacks? The truth is we are way behind talent wise. Meanwhile Georgia and Clemson and soon to be Florida will undoubtedly seize upon our dysfunction. While we do have some talent on the roster, we are very much behind the 8 ball. The coaching hire will tell the tale.
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Because you’re wrong...We have a roster full of top 5 talent. 2016 class you’re correct. They mostly aren’t playing now. We have a seasoned top 5 talent team right now that is not physically developed, under worked, and were poorly coached.

Rivals.com

Rivals.com
 
#78
#78
Interestingly and conveniently the best coaches by statistics still have not been interviewed. Les Miles and Brent Venables simply do not lose. Les had a falling out at LSU after one of the best decades ever. Venables is stellar. T is great but unproven and a huge gamble. Kiffin is decent but not trustworthy. Burn me once but never twice.
 
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#79
#79
Rudy123 said:
The ones that most consider home runs have either used us to get extensions or raises at current school or they have already left for a new job last week. We will likely get one of Fulmers friends. Cutcliffe or Miles or one of that type
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And either one of them is better than the ones we have been trying to hire. Especially Miles, which is who I hope he gets.
 
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#81
#81
:p
butchna said:
Figurehead. Needs coordinators to be great cause he can’t. Others could do that.
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Confident that Les Miles & Phil Fulmer would make a good team & assemble a great staff. LM knows the landscape & would be a tireless worker. He also wants to finish his coaching career with a flourish. :yes:
 
#82
#82
It's going to be a long recovery, something Fulmer mentioned in is introduction speech today, the talent is way down right now, going to have to recruit around it.


It still boggles my mind how Butch Jones recruiting was so vastly overrated, compared to what we saw on the field:banghead2:
 
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#83
#83
We have to get a home run coach - one that has proven he can take a under performing team and maximum the talent. This is not a job for a novice. Couple where we are at with a novice and it will be 3 to 5 years and I can guarantee we'll see a new coach in 3 or 4 years again. The fan base has absolutely no patience.

If we get a novice - yes 17, 18 and maybe 20 will be rough.

If we get a proven coach that has done more with less 17 and 18 could be good years.
 
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#84
#84
photovol said:
It's going to be a long recovery, something Fulmer mentioned in is introduction speech today, the talent is way down right now, going to have to recruit around it.


It still boggles my mind how Butch Jones recruiting was so vastly overrated, compared to what we saw on the field:banghead2:
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The talent is not down - they either under performed or were injured. The injuries also play a part in the development of a player. There are many on the team that were highly sought by other top teams.

I also feel Fulmer was referring to more than just the players on the team - the entire attitude around the program needs to change. This last year has been filled with too much negativity and folks pushing their agendas to get people fired. We have to get to the point where folks don't melt down and want to fire someone with every bump in the road. That will take longer and will not be resolved with recruiting. That is an attitude change within the fan base that has to learn how to be patient.
 
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#85
#85
photovol said:
It's going to be a long recovery, something Fulmer mentioned in is introduction speech today, the talent is way down right now, going to have to recruit around it.


It still boggles my mind how Butch Jones recruiting was so vastly overrated, compared to what we saw on the field:banghead2:
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I don't know if his recruiting was overrated. It doesn't matter how good you recruit if you can't actually develop talent, and Butch had serious problems with that.

When Nebraska had their run of national championships in the 1990s, these were their recruiting class rankings:

Thanks to John Talman of Rivals.com, we can get a good read on how analysts regarded Osborne's recruiting classes in the early 1990s — the classes that ultimately helped produce three national championships.

The class of 1990 was ranked 10th by SuperPrep, but only 34th by the National Recruiting Advisor and 41st by Tom Lemming. The class of 1991 was ranked 28th by SuperPrep. However, Osborne did have a top-10 class in 1992 (Tommie Frazier, Toby Wright, Mike Minter, Chris Dishman, et al) — it was ranked fifth by Max Emfinger and 10th by Tom Lemming.

The 1993 class was ranked 18th by SuperPrep, and the 1994 group 22nd by Lemming and 20th by SuperPrep.

(Got that out of an article in the Lincoln newspaper: Steven M. Sipple: Osborne weighs in on Husker recruiting | Sipple | journalstar.com)

Obviously, you can't count on coaching up players like Tom Osborne did, but we shouldn't need to. Just getting good players and getting them to play to their potential, which is something that Butch never did, would be enough.
 
#86
#86
jsc1973 said:
I don't know if his recruiting was overrated. It doesn't matter how good you recruit if you can't actually develop talent, and Butch had serious problems with that.

When Nebraska had their run of national championships in the 1990s, these were their recruiting class rankings:

Thanks to John Talman of Rivals.com, we can get a good read on how analysts regarded Osborne's recruiting classes in the early 1990s — the classes that ultimately helped produce three national championships.

The class of 1990 was ranked 10th by SuperPrep, but only 34th by the National Recruiting Advisor and 41st by Tom Lemming. The class of 1991 was ranked 28th by SuperPrep. However, Osborne did have a top-10 class in 1992 (Tommie Frazier, Toby Wright, Mike Minter, Chris Dishman, et al) — it was ranked fifth by Max Emfinger and 10th by Tom Lemming.

The 1993 class was ranked 18th by SuperPrep, and the 1994 group 22nd by Lemming and 20th by SuperPrep.

(Got that out of an article in the Lincoln newspaper: Steven M. Sipple: Osborne weighs in on Husker recruiting | Sipple | journalstar.com)

Obviously, you can't count on coaching up players like Tom Osborne did, but we shouldn't need to. Just getting good players and getting them to play to their potential, which is something that Butch never did, would be enough.
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What was Stanford's average recruiting class the last 4 years? Yes the Stanford team who won 9 games and played toe to toe with USC in the PAC 12 championship game.
 
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#87
#87
They don't have to be. Our boy is waiting, bring him home...

kiffin2.jpeg
 
#89
#89
andywilson001 said:
Why wouldn’t we get a home run hire? I’m more confident now than ever that we will.
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I’m still of the mindset that while the HC hire is important, what’s maybe a little more important is who does he surround himself with as far as his OC, DC & remainder of coaching staff goes.
 
#90
#90
DrTNT said:
I’m still of the mindset that while the HC hire is important, what’s maybe a little more important is who does he surround himself with as far as his OC, DC & remainder of coaching staff goes.
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Yep. A good HC always has a good staff.
 
#91
#91
trampas2bad said:
There is a sad reality exuberant folks from todays events don't get. Less than 3 weeks to early signing day and none of the fine coaches Fulmer will consider will have coattails. Now, Kiffin would have those kind of coattails because he is a coach that young athletes want to play for. So you are correct in worrying about this. Our 18 team will consist of the team we have now minus 22 seniors, and if we are very lucky, an incoming recruiting class that is at least considered average or slightly better. A coattails coach like Kiffin would probably land us a top ten, but we're far too proud a program to bring him back. Next years mediocrity will not inspire recruits for 19. Saban wins with 4-5 star recruits and we'll be seeing sweet few of those.
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How can you blame Tn staff for not getting Kiffin? The guy walked out on us after less than 2 years and now has the nerve to be making jokes about the events hiring a new coach.What does this guy have to do to make it apparent that he does not want to be here?
 
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#92
#92
BigOrangeTrain said:
There is nowhere near the amount of talent on the Vols as you think. We look slow and soft compared tp virtually every other SEC team. We need a head coach to come in and coach out the soft weak attitude Butch brought in. Thats going to take at least 2 years.
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This. "A lot of chrome, but not much horsepower."

New coach has to instill an attitude change, and new S&C coach has their work cut out for them. This team needs a hard-nosed work ethic.

Two years sounds about right, but maybe less if we can get some JUCO talent. Those guys almost always play hard. They've seen life in the "bush leagues".

Go Vols.
 
#94
#94
volfeeva said:
How can you blame Tn staff for not getting Kiffin? The guy walked out on us after less than 2 years and now has the nerve to be making jokes about the events hiring a new coach.What does this guy have to do to make it apparent that he does not want to be here?
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That noise you heard yesterday afternoon at around 4:30 was Philip Fulmer slamming the door on Lane Kiffin's toes. Kiffin screwed UT, and the only place Coach Fulmer wants to see him in Knoxville is face-down in the Tennessee River.

Fact. Go Vols.
 
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#97
#97
MADISONGAVOL said:
Home run doesn't have to be jimbo Fishers of college football...
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True, it doesn't have to knock out the lights above the bleachers in center field, just go over the fence.

And the fence is not a .500 record over 6 years.

That's an easy grounder to second base with 2 out and a man on 1st.

......Leach
 
#98
#98
PrattvilleVol said:
You’re drunk at this point. We’re stacked with talent. Strength and conditioning and player development has been our major problems on top of idiotic play calling. Don’t fool yourself. We’ll have 3, 5 Star OL once we get Cade back home. Guarantano wants Tee for a reason. Every school in the country recruited him and he knows Tee. Talent? Good grief man. Take a Xanax and chase it with a beer.
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Bless your heart.
 
#100
#100
Brave Volunteer said:
How do you figure this? There's more talent on this team than you realize. Plus the '17 recruiting class (amazingly) is largely still intact. If we can lure Mays back along with a few others, we will still have a good recruiting class!
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Yeah I don’t get the chin dragging over our talent level. Granted our depth is still shallow and we need to keep recruiting strong but guys returning from injuries and the PT that a lot of young kids got should really help our team next year. One more year in the weight room will help....The schedule will be tough but I think we can be successful right away. Not N.C. level successful but wins some big games.....
 
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