Barnes March Madness record at UT(the real one)

[BreatheUT]

That's a pretty wild theory imo. I think a much more accurate take is that we were favored to win in all the tournament games that we ultimately lost, and that fact sucks. I certainly understand that expecting a 100% win rate in such games is completely unrealistic. It's hard for me to ignore/write off the fact that we've failed to beat inferior teams in all of our KO games; it's not like any of those teams were head and shoulders superior to us. I just want us to play up to our potential in the tournament. I truly believe Barnes would have at least one or two more tournament victories if we had.

^^^^This is a better take. If you are always getting beat before you face a higher seed, then of course you won't face one. I guess we could celebrate the regular season accomplishments to look on the bright side, but that also tells us we are falling short in the tournament. Some of it was putrid play and not being able to hit the bottom of the ocean like FAU. Some of it was the other team was hot like Purdue. It's the FAU type performance that bothers me especially after seeing the team have problems with some of the same guys inability to score. History tells us what to expect when you have most of the same team that produces like they've produced in the past.

 

[cncchris33]

I should have specified that the scope of my argument is within Vegas betting odds and irrespective of seeding. That's why I would consider our win vs Duke an upset. Not capitalizing on good opportunities in the tournament is my one real gripe with Barnes, aforementioned Duke game being an exception to that idea. I get what you're saying though. I think it's a bit wild to suggest that anyone actually wants worse seeding in the scenario you're describing.

Obviously no one wants worse seeding. That line was dripping with hyperbole. It was just an illustration of how ridiculous I find the made up stat in question and the importance placed upon it by some of Barnes's more vocal and desperate critics.

 

[cncchris33]

Just to.clarify our disappearing in March goes way back before RB got here.. In 77 we had 3 1st round draft picks and still couldnt win a game in the tourney.
.

Correct. We've never been good in the postseason under any coach. It isn't unique to Barnes. It also isn't an excuse to not be better. Everyone wants us to be more successful. That we can all agree on.

 

[a vol n tears]

Doesn’t matter. Barnes leaves Knoxville when Barnes says he is leaving. Nobody firing him.

 

[Frozevol]

^^^^This is a better take. If you are always getting beat before you face a higher seed, then of course you won't face one. I guess we could celebrate the regular season accomplishments to look on the bright side, but that also tells us we are falling short in the tournament. Some of it was putrid play and not being able to hit the bottom of the ocean like FAU. Some of it was the other team was hot like Purdue. It's the FAU type performance that bothers me especially after seeing the team have problems with some of the same guys inability to score. History tells us what to expect when you have most of the same team that produces like they've produced in the past.

I thought we had an off night against Purdue that year. They had one hot player, but we had the better team. Again… an off night, we weren’t playing with our normal intensity and the refs finished us off on a bad call. Sound familiar?

 

[kiddiedoc]

When the day comes that CRB decides to retire, the UT job will attract the highest-level candidates in the country. There's never been a time in history that was the case.

We are, literally, in the best position UT basketball has ever been.

 

[BreatheUT]

I thought we had an off night against Purdue that year. They had one hot player, but we had the better team. Again… an off night, we weren’t playing with our normal intensity and the refs finished us off on a bad call. Sound familiar?

They had two guys that were lighting us up. One was having a career game. Our offense wasn't bad.

 

[VolGee4]

What is crazy to me is the people who seem to love the guy and do not seem to want to ever achieve anything better. Outside of the failures in March, including two years where the bracket opened up for a real deep run (Loyola and FAU seasons)…the blind faithful then want to argue how regular season basketball is the true standard and March is so hard with weird venues and matchups yadda yadda yadda, yet Barnes has managed only a share of one regular season Sec title and never managed to win the Sec outright. This is with teams that have achieved the number 1 ranking, being paid a top 5 salary in basketball, and so on. One would expect either a final four run or multiple Sec outright crowns knowing this… then all his supporters could say well hey look we win the Sec all the time. Now moving to this year, we have the best team or what should be the best team in the Sec along with the best player in the conference again and we are staring at two sub par losses in the first half of our Sec schedule which is far easier than the second half of the schedule. So why should all of us so called naysayers be happy about the exact same results year after year when we never really achieve anything. Shouldn’t a coach paid the level Barnes is be held to an elite level and our basketball program be expected to rise accordingly. Outside of Kentucky nobody in the conference should be held to any standards higher than we are. Not being able to critique and criticize Barnes who was leaving us high and dry for UCLA is beyond me. Either friggen win the conference outright Ricky boy or make a final four. That is the standard we can achieve here and anything less is not good enough, especially for your deep pocketed behind. Now…is this team going to do either of those things and if they do not where do you stand? But do not sit there and argue with Vols fans who want and expect more. Complacency will ensure we never achieve what this basketball program should.

This is all nonsense to me. Rick Barnes is 77-37 in SEC play since 2017. I took out his first 2 years because he inherited a mess. Pearl is 74-42. Calipari is 79-36. Calipari has won 1 SECT in that span (like Barnes) and 1 regular season title (like Barnes). Barnes has regular season finishes of 1,2,2,4,4,8. Calipari has finishes of 1,2,2,3,4,8. Pearl has finishes of 1,1,2,4,7,10.

Barnes has literally coached to the level of Kentucky and has about a .500 record against Calipari since being at UT. The SEC is a much tougher conference now than when Pearl coached here, and there are no divisions. But I guess we have to hold Barnes to a higher standard. While I want to get to a FF, we’ve never done it. But we expect Barnes to do it. No appreciation for the man by some of our fans.

 

[SGMVols]

When the day comes that CRB decides to retire, the UT job will attract the highest-level candidates in the country. There's never been a time in history that was the case.

We are, literally, in the best position UT basketball has ever been.

I wouldn’t count on that. We will likely be hiring a mid major guy like we normally do when we don’t have a Hall of Famer fall into our lap.

 

[chuckiepoo]

I wouldn’t count on that. We will likely be hiring a mid major guy like we normally do when we don’t have a Hall of Famer fall into our lap.

…yer blue font iz thicc..

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

When the day comes that CRB decides to retire, the UT job will attract the highest-level candidates in the country. There's never been a time in history that was the case.

We are, literally, in the best position UT basketball has ever been.

Yep. Except that Houston, KO, and Bruce were top choices for UT. I think that O’Neill was TN’s first choice in 1994.

Pat Kennedy was the main target in 1989 with Leonard Hamilton and Wade 2A and 2B. Lamar Alexander forced DAD to pick his Blount County homeboy over Leonard after Kennedy turned Dickey down. But the fan base was thrilled at the possibility of Allan getting out of his UL commitment and joining his dad. Plus hiring an AA as the first HC hire in the SEC was well received (actually Richardson was the first hire, but Arkansas wasn’t in the SEC yet).

Cuonzo looked good on paper. Didn’t play out that way. The anti-Bruce.

Bruce wasn’t an overwhelming favorite, but with Ernie’s endorsement and Bruce’s Sweet 16 at Milwaukee his selection was immediately embraced.

Jerry Green was way down the list and TN probably settled for him more than any other HC hire.

Donnie was a well received alternative to CCM. Then his recruiting class made that hire look really good.

Buzz was kind of dumb. Another UNC guy after failing with a different UNC guy? Maybe Jerry’s 4x 20s and 4x NCAATs resulted in Buzz getting a pass.

Mears was impossible to replace. Going with a Bobby Knight protégé made a lot of sense. Imagine what could have happened if it was Knight’s other guy though. Coach K instead of Devoe.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I wouldn’t count on that. We will likely be hiring a mid major guy like we normally do when we don’t have a Hall of Famer fall into our lap.

Yes. Next hire will be a younger coach on his way up. Lateral moves by high level college coaches aren’t the usual approach. Right now Kim English and USCjr’s Lamont Paris are possibly the top choices (although CLP turns 50 in a couple of months).

 

[chuckiepoo]

Yes. Next hire will be a younger coach on his way up. Lateral moves by high level college coaches aren’t the usual approach. Right now Kim English and USCjr’s Lamont Paris are possibly the top choices (although CLP turns 50 in a couple of months).

…dats just a yoot…

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

…dats just a yoot…

A what? Did you say yute?

 

[chuckiepoo]

A what? Did you say yute?

Yes yer Honor. The two yoots!

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Yes. Next hire will be a younger coach on his way up. Lateral moves by high level college coaches aren’t the usual approach. Right now Kim English and USCjr’s Lamont Paris are possibly the top choices (although CLP turns 50 in a couple of months).

Unless last night is atypical of Paris’ style - I’d hate to have to watch his abomination of basketball every game.

 

[chuckiepoo]

Unless last night is atypical of Paris’ style - I’d hate to have to watch his abomination of basketball every game.

Probably what SEC fans were thinking until the connect…

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Probably what SEC fans were thinking until the connect…

I’m not a big fan of the one man offense. But Knecht is our guy so I’ll allow it. This year.

I usually can’t stand whichever NBA team that James Harden plays for.

 

[chuckiepoo]

I’m not a big fan of the one man offense. But Knecht is our guy so I’ll allow it. This year.

I usually can’t stand whichever NBA team that James Harden plays for.

..ugh.. was lured into Haren fandom while he was in Houston. It never worked down here. Pretty sure won’t work in Knoxpatch…

The trick is, will CRB be lured in or will he demand better of his team?

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

18- 3 seed, lost to 11 seed Loyola

19- 2 seed, lost to 3 seed Purdue

21- 5 seed, lost to 12 seed Oregon State

22- 3 seed, lost to 11 seed Michigan

23- 4 lost to 9 seed FAU

Never beaten a higher seed, but OTOH I don't know if we have EVER beaten a higher seed in the Tournament.

Said another way, CRB's NCAA tourney results match Coach Pearl's thus far and, if that trend continues, it would mean this is the season CRB gets the E8 or better.

 

[MinisterofDef#92]

^^^^This is a better take. If you are always getting beat before you face a higher seed, then of course you won't face one. I guess we could celebrate the regular season accomplishments to look on the bright side, but that also tells us we are falling short in the tournament. Some of it was putrid play and not being able to hit the bottom of the ocean like FAU. Some of it was the other team was hot like Purdue. It's the FAU type performance that bothers me especially after seeing the team have problems with some of the same guys inability to score. History tells us what to expect when you have most of the same team that produces like they've produced in the past.

And some of it was due to injuries taking out a starter (e.g., Alexander and Fulky) or a horrendous call with 1 second or two on the clock (Turner against Purdue) which accounts for 3 of our exits.

 

[hUTch2002]

Yep. Except that Houston, KO, and Bruce were top choices for UT. I think that O’Neill was TN’s first choice in 1994.

Pat Kennedy was the main target in 1989 with Leonard Hamilton and Wade 2A and 2B. Lamar Alexander forced DAD to pick his Blount County homeboy over Leonard after Kennedy turned Dickey down. But the fan base was thrilled at the possibility of Allan getting out of his UL commitment and joining his dad. Plus hiring an AA as the first HC hire in the SEC was well received (actually Richardson was the first hire, but Arkansas wasn’t in the SEC yet).

Cuonzo looked good on paper. Didn’t play out that way. The anti-Bruce.

Bruce wasn’t an overwhelming favorite, but with Ernie’s endorsement and Bruce’s Sweet 16 at Milwaukee his selection was immediately embraced.

Jerry Green was way down the list and TN probably settled for him more than any other HC hire.

Donnie was a well received alternative to CCM. Then his recruiting class made that hire look really good.

Buzz was kind of dumb. Another UNC guy after failing with a different UNC guy? Maybe Jerry’s 4x 20s and 4x NCAATs resulted in Buzz getting a pass.

Mears was impossible to replace. Going with a Bobby Knight protégé made a lot of sense. Imagine what could have happened if it was Knight’s other guy though. Coach K instead of Devoe.

Bruce was a hot commodity at the time and I’m surprised Green was so far down as he was a good coach at Oregon.

So was beating Duke last year the only time under Barnes we’ve won a tourney game where we were the underdog? I get being frustrated about the FAU game but we weren’t even supposed to get that far. Yes our seeding said we were but we were a popular 1st round upset pick and almost no one outside of UT fans thought we’d beat Duke.

 

[VolBricks]

I lived in Austin during Barnes time at TX. He got fired for this very reason; they said he could not win the big games.

 

[BernardKingGOAT]

I lived in Austin during Barnes time at TX. He got fired for this very reason; they said he could not win the big games.

He went to an EE and a FF while at Texas. It was because he didn't win a national championship

The two bluest of bloods, Kentucky and UCLA, have both offered Barnes in the last 20 years.

 

[NighthawkVol]

18- 3 seed, lost to 11 seed Loyola

19- 2 seed, lost to 3 seed Purdue

21- 5 seed, lost to 12 seed Oregon State

22- 3 seed, lost to 11 seed Michigan

23- 4 lost to 9 seed FAU

Never beaten a higher seed, but OTOH I don't know if we have EVER beaten a higher seed in the Tournament.

Couple of caveats:

That 19 team didn’t lose to Purdue. That Purdue team shot the ball better than any team in any game in the tournament that year, played way over their heads, and still needed criminal officiating at the end to win.

Loyola and FAU went to the Final 4 those years. The NCAAT is a lot about luck. Drawing teams that go on heaters is bad luck, regardless of what seed they are.