Bailout hindsight

#1
MontereyVol

MontereyVol

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#1
Now that the bailout was passed do you still think it was a good or bad idea?

I stated it was a bad idea and so far I see no reason to change that stance.
 
#2
#2
I think the credit market actions were necessary but the "government save me" mentality that it has spurred may have worse longer term consequences than the short term pain we would have experienced.
 
#3
#3
if they didn't do it we would have seen a colapse of the banking system. and it is a little too early to declare it a success or failure.
 
#4
#4
It was a bad idea, and still is a bad idea. Anyway you slice it or justify it, it is still just basic rewarding for bad behavior. Let all these guys fail.

Anybody watch Mike Huckabee on Hannity and Colmes last night? I think Huckabee is a complete loon usually, but I found myself agreeing with much of what he said.
 
#5
#5
the govt will make a profit on this. probably a large profit. if you think interest plus warrants is "rewarding" the banks you are high. and letting them fail is a great way to send us into a great depression. it's all well and good to say those things, but if the govt allowed all those banks to fail you'd be unemployed very soon and you'd be raising hell about it.
 
#6
#6
I'm not sure we are in the hindsight position -- but the fact that this money has not been used to force banks to lend makes it pointless. I also strongly disagree with giving money to banks that are still paying dividends and excessive bonus structures.
 
#7
#7
droski said:
if they didn't do it we would have seen a colapse of the banking system. and it is a little too early to declare it a success or failure.
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This part I have a tendency to agree with, however I think it should end there.

Paulson is not impressing me one bit.
 
#8
#8
droski said:
the govt will make a profit on this. probably a large profit. if you think interest plus warrants is "rewarding" the banks you are high. and letting them fail is a great way to send us into a great depression. it's all well and good to say those things, but if the govt allowed all those banks to fail you'd be unemployed very soon and you'd be raising hell about it.
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Do you really think they are not going to forgive those loans down the road? The US government is going to lose money on this.
 
#9
#9
VolByBirth said:
I'm not sure we are in the hindsight position -- but the fact that this money has not been used to force banks to lend makes it pointless. I also strongly disagree with giving money to banks that are still paying dividends and excessive bonus structures.
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Don't worry I will start one next year too. :)
 
#10
#10
VolByBirth said:
I'm not sure we are in the hindsight position -- but the fact that this money has not been used to force banks to lend makes it pointless. I also strongly disagree with giving money to banks that are still paying dividends and excessive bonus structures.
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the bonuses are pretty much gone this year. as for the dividends many banks were forced to take the money so i don't quite understand why they shouldn't be paying dividends. you can't force the banks to lend btw.
 
#12
#12
droski said:
if they didn't do it we would have seen a colapse of the banking system. and it is a little too early to declare it a success or failure.
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Would we see a complete and total collapse?

We should have let these guys fail. This bailout just seems to me that we are giving these banks one set of rules to play by and making everybody else play by another. If I own a small business and go under because of bad business practices nobody is going to bail me out, but once I reach a certain size that is big enough, it doesn't matter how I run my business because I can always count of the government to bail me out.

I don't care if we go into another depression. It is the system we have in this country and we should take the good with the bad. For all the harping I see on this board for free markets and true capitalism, I would think more would feel this way.
 
#13
#13
MontereyVol said:
Do you really think they are not going to forgive those loans down the road? The US government is going to lose money on this.
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i think there is zero chance they forgive the loans. it is written into the preferreds that they get paid back and at what interest rate. if these banks are profitable again (which should happen as soon as 09), how could you possible justify forgiving the loans?
 
#15
#15
rjd970 said:
Would we see a complete and total collapse?

We should have let these guys fail. This bailout just seems to me that we are giving these banks one set of rules to play by and making everybody else play by another. If I own a small business and go under because of bad business practices nobody is going to bail me out, but once I reach a certain size that is big enough, it doesn't matter how I run my business because I can always count of the government to bail me out.

I don't care if we go into another depression. It is the system we have in this country and we should take the good with the bad. For all the harping I see on this board for free markets and true capitalism, I would think more would feel this way.
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if these banks went under you wouldn't be able to get a loan to make your payroll for your small business and your clients wouldn't be able to get loans to buy your products. and for all the "bailout" rhetoric please explain how a high interest rate plus warrants can be called a bailout? doesn't a "bailout" imply that that money is down the tubes? this is an investment. not a bailout.
 
#16
#16
rjd970 said:
Is it not a reward if the alternative is going out of business completely?
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companies get investments that stop them from going out of business all the time. and if the likes of Citi, Wells Fargo, or Bank of America were going under it was because of conditions out of their control. Yes they screwed up, but these companies have billions of positive free cash flow. no one will ever convince me that these banks are not viable businesses.
 
#17
#17
I agree it makes sense to separate actions for the credit market from larger bailout plans such as the auto industry, state and muni governments, massive stimulus packages, forced mortgage renegotiation, etc.
 
#18
#18
droski said:
i think there is zero chance they forgive the loans. it is written into the preferreds that they get paid back and at what interest rate. if these banks are profitable again (which should happen as soon as 09), how could you possible justify forgiving the loans?
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Ever heard of the Marshall plan?
 
#20
#20
droski said:
if these banks went under you wouldn't be able to get a loan to make your payroll for your small business and your clients wouldn't be able to get loans to buy your products. and for all the "bailout" rhetoric please explain how a high interest rate plus warrants can be called a bailout? doesn't a "bailout" imply that that money is down the tubes? this is an investment. not a bailout.
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So you would be all for allowing the same option to every small business in america that is possibly facing collapse? Should we all be able to access this money? In fact, should the government even be in this business?

And I also assume you are in favor of similar loans for the big 3 so they don't fail?
 
#22
#22
rjd970 said:
So you would be all for allowing the same option to every small business in america that is possibly facing collapse? Should we all be able to access this money? In fact, should the government even be in this business?

And I also assume you are in favor of similar loans for the big 3 so they don't fail?
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a small business going under has far less severe consequences to the overall economy. you have to turn off the money at some point.

I don't favor throwing money at companies that aren't viable business int he first place. the banks will likely return to profitability in 09, the auto makers without any union concessions will never return to profitability. i dont' favor giving them $25 bil when they will need another $25 bil 6 months from now. unless the unions are willing to deal and then i am in favor.
 
#23
#23
MontereyVol said:
Why? we forgave debt to countries who could have paid us back and signed contracts with specific payments and interest rates. Money we loaned them to bail them out.
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they aren't public companies. the public outrage over forgiving these loans would be overwhelming when the stocks are doubling. particurally with a democratic congress.
 
#24
#24
droski said:
they aren't public companies. the public outrage over forgiving these loans would be overwhelming when the stocks are doubling. particurally with a democratic congress.
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I don't know, wait a few years and this wouldn't make a blip in the media, especially if we get back on track.
 
#25
#25
Why should our tax dollars go to the fat cats to bail them out for being irresponsible and greedy?
 
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