Bagget's hiring impact

#26
#26
fernandomike said:
Willis was definitely not in Knoxville when Dooley was hired. Word is that he was in route to UT and got a call from Orgeron asking him to join them at USC. He and his dad were very turned off by it and went home and committed to UNC. I think he was enrolled at UNC before Dooley was ever hired.
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This is what I heard also
 
#27
#27
fernandomike said:
Willis was definitely not in Knoxville when Dooley was hired. Word is that he was in route to UT and got a call from Orgeron asking him to join them at USC. He and his dad were very turned off by it and went home and committed to UNC. I think he was enrolled at UNC before Dooley was ever hired.
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He was back and forth before the whole situation ever happened so you you are right this isn't on DD. For some reason I still think our DC is announced the day after NSD and another school's recruits are going to be mad.
 
#28
#28
I like what CDD is doing in Knoxville. He is working hard to fill our needs both coaching and recruiting. He is selling TENNESSEE not Coach NFL. This was the problem with X he was the star in his own mind not The TENNESSEE VOLUNTEERS! Also rember this there are recruits out there that are rated 3 Stars or less that turn out to be what a team needs. EX: "DB Javier Arenas, Alabama: Florida Atlantic and Florida International were battling it out for Arenas until Alabama decided to take him late. Not only did he become one of the most feared punt returners in college football history with seven taken back for touchdowns, but he developed into a first-team All-American at cornerback this past season." From ESPN-online. WE ARE TENNESSEE and we must sell TENNESSEE! GO VOLS!:peace2:
 
#29
#29
UTVOLS03 said:
I like what CDD is doing in Knoxville. He is working hard to fill our needs both coaching and recruiting. He is selling TENNESSEE not Coach NFL. This was the problem with X he was the star in his own mind not The TENNESSEE VOLUNTEERS! Also rember this there are recruits out there that are rated 3 Stars or less that turn out to be what a team needs. EX: "DB Javier Arenas, Alabama: Florida Atlantic and Florida International were battling it out for Arenas until Alabama decided to take him late. Not only did he become one of the most feared punt returners in college football history with seven taken back for touchdowns, but he developed into a first-team All-American at cornerback this past season." From ESPN-online. WE ARE TENNESSEE and we must sell TENNESSEE! GO VOLS!:peace2:
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Truth. Lots of folks will try to convince you that if Rivals doesn't rate a guy high, then that guy can't play. And that coaching hires have to make a big splash. Splash has more to do with the short-term. I want recruits who are coachable and have the raw talent to be great players no matter what recruiting services might say. I want coaches who can sell themselves, our program, and also get the most out of the players. That's not always easy to spot just by looking at a resume.
 
#30
#30
Reaves came from one of our main SEC Rivals...Hinshaw came from...MTSU and Memphis (the same Memphis that tanked so bad last year it got their coach fired). Reaves was the Recruiting Coordinator and QB coach for USCjr, and had a pretty good recruiting track record coming in...and did fairly well while here; so even with that comparison, yours argument flat.

Hinshaw could not have been the best position coach available to UT and Coach Dooley...nor was Joseph.
I'm sorry, but Dooley is largely under consideration not because of what he had going in La Tech (17-20), but that he was under Saban for a number of years.
That means, Hamilton didn't hire him to replicate what he had going in La. Tech and to bring his staff with him.

People who deny that coaches coming from the NFL have no impact in recruiting or on the field are just kidding themselves. No, it's never a guarantee....but no hire is. The task is to mitigate the risk...like any investment decision. The staff is every bit the investment that a HC is, and should be treated as such...I just hope that CDD realizes he's playing with house money, and he doesn't have to shop for staff members at the Dollar General Store.
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Dude I've noticed your quotes on here and every single one of them are bashing Dooley. Listen bro Kiffin abandoned us at a pretty bad time and that put us in a bad place. Not all coaches are like Kiffin and up and jump to the next best thing regardless who it hurts, they have class. Dooley wasn't the only person we had to settle on, but he was recommended by some very high candidates (candidates that I'm sure you would Love simply b/c of their name) and it's who we got. Let it go! He hasn't even coached a freakin' game yet and all you've done is criticize him in every single aspect! The last I checked he's been on the job for 2 weeks and he's had 9 committs and we went from falling to 19th after Kiffin left to back in the Top 10 at 7th. Get over it dude! You evidently have a chip on your shoulder and it's pretty rediculous...
 
#31
#31
volstexans said:
If the scenario you described happens, I do think Baggett will be a big part of the reason, obviously.

However, instead of saying CDD made a good hire in Baggett for this reason, and saying his other hires won't be equally as good, why not wait for a little evidence.

Blind faith is one thing, but blind pessimism doesn't really make a lot of sense, unless you're just bitter.
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:good!: I, to, am of the wait and see opinion. There seem to be a few too many underpaid UT coaches here, lol. Not speaking to any one individual, however, alot of VN members seem to know more than our coaches. I'm sure CDD is aware of the fact that he needs a DLC and DC. He is also surely aware of how many OL and DT positions need to be filled. He has a plan and like it or not, he is the HC of our VOLS for the next few years at least. While a few contributers on here have very good insight, ie: sab/ lv, eric, as well as others, everyone needs to remember the most important thing about all of this. He is the one getting paid 2 million+ a year to make these decisions. :)
 
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#33
#33
Unfortunately the DC/DL hiring won't happen until after NSD. Will hurt more than help. CCB was a good hire and we need to continue with the momentum.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#35
#35
AllVolinGA said:
Gran chose to leave before K left. That is not Coach D's fault. Big names do not always equal big results and a big splash often just leaves you all wet.
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Kiffin needed Gran worse than Dooley!
And to the Dork that wants to compare Hinshaw to Gran. Gran would out recruit Hinshaw more than likely in Southern Florida, but he out recruits everyone in Southern Florida so whats your point. Hinshaw will be a very good QB coach and recruiter. V,B!
 
#36
#36
I really get tired of seeing this same post every other day, but I'll bite.

NFL experience is great, but how many NFL guys are willing to drop down and be position coaches? You have no clue as to who the DC will be, so to whine about hiring now is a moot point.

Coming from a small school/not super successful school isn't always an indicator of coaching ability. The best WR coach in the nation can't do much good at a school without an O-line and a QB.

You severely overestimate the willingness of settled in coaches in the NFL or other schools to just jump ship for a couple more dollars, joining a team with glaring deficiencies at most positions. It's an unsafe move.

Stop whining and wait to see what happens.
 
#37
#37
1SmokinVol said:
Let's take Eddie Gran for example. Put him up against Hinshaw for a recruit in the same territory. Who do you think is going to come away the winner? Coaches have to be able to sell themselves to a recruit as much as the university. Willis bailed and went to UNC because, compared to Dooley and the staff in place, they had more to sell to a blue chip recruit with NFL aspirations....Butch Davis, Withers and Blake.

You obviously know nothing about Hinshaw.
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Are you just putting him up against Gran because Gran is a better recruiter than Reaves? I'm asking because I thought Hinshaw was coaching QBs, not RBs.
 
#39
#39
mdsvol said:
:good!: I, to, am of the wait and see opinion. There seem to be a few too many underpaid UT coaches here, lol. Not speaking to any one individual, however, alot of VN members seem to know more than our coaches. I'm sure CDD is aware of the fact that he needs a DLC and DC. He is also surely aware of how many OL and DT positions need to be filled. He has a plan and like it or not, he is the HC of our VOLS for the next few years at least. While a few contributers on here have very good insight, ie: sab/ lv, eric, as well as others, everyone needs to remember the most important thing about all of this. He is the one getting paid 2 million+ a year to make these decisions. :)
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If you're going to take the position that fans have no place to point at perceived mistakes...then why would coaches ever get fired in the first place? They'd have lifetime tenure...as they are so far above scrutiny as you put it...so that argument falls flat on it's face. Fulmer said he didn't get stupid over night. That was a veiled swipe at his critics. We saw who won that battle.

No coach is above reproach...sounds like a phrase for a country song doesn't it? :)
 
#40
#40
TENNaciousUTfan said:
Did you go and help him enroll? We had a replacement like within 72hrs, and you're saying he made such a move before knowing who was going to replace Kiffin? You need to check your facts before you try and correct someone. That's not how I remember it. He was on campus here in Knoxville ready to enroll, from what I read, and he bailed the weekend after Dooley was named HC.
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:nono:

I just re-checked my facts and

Willis enrolled on the 13th.
Dooley's hire was announced on the 15th.

Willis says he has enrolled at North Carolina | GoUpstate.com

Willis flipped so fast that not even the remaining assistants got a chance to try to fix it. And yes the rest of your post was equally as random.
 
#41
#41
TENNaciousUTfan said:
If you're going to take the position that fans have no place to point at perceived mistakes...then why would coaches ever get fired in the first place? They'd have lifetime tenure...as they are so far above scrutiny as you put it...so that argument falls flat on it's face. Fulmer said he didn't get stupid over night. That was a veiled swipe at his critics. We saw who won that battle.

No coach is above reproach...sounds like a phrase for a country song doesn't it? :)
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Not saying anyone is above reproach nor are coaches perfect. Simply put, too many people, not just you, saying he needs to hire this or that or he needs to recruit this kid and not that one or this position not the one he is recruiting. He is the HC making the decisions, give him a chance to do what he does before determining that its a mistake if he doesn't do things a certain way.
 
#42
#42
Tennacious,
Fulmer let the program decline his last 5 or so years. I have no problem with CPF being let go. Dooley hasn't faultered or proven anything yet. Perceived mistakes on his part....... I guess I lumped you into the group of VN coaches that are already counting his mistakes. At least you did say "perceived mistakes"in your second post. I apologize....have read to many people faulting him already and put my fingers in action before I stopped to reread your post.:hi: However, you can't possibly know that hiring Spangler will get him fired. No one knows how it would turn out until he has been hired and falls on his face. My most sincere apologies though, did not pickup "perceived" mistakes in your first post.
 
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#43
#43
soda23 said:
except we have no linebackers either
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We have plenty of linebackers . Linebackers and offensive linemen are both special positions in that freshman generally do not come in ready to play ....as oppossed to some other positions. They are all just young.

You will see several of the linebacking crew take immediate leaps forward this season ...while several will not . maybe a couple will prove elite .

Take Greg King for example. He showed alot of potential last season , the physical ability was there , but he looked lost more often than not. He cannot be said to 'suck' at this point . the correct diagnosis of his condition would be 'young' Most LB's aren't ready until their junior year . The same may be said for O linemen
 
#44
#44
TENNaciousUTfan said:
If you're going to take the position that fans have no place to point at perceived mistakes...then why would coaches ever get fired in the first place? They'd have lifetime tenure...as they are so far above scrutiny as you put it...so that argument falls flat on it's face. Fulmer said he didn't get stupid over night. That was a veiled swipe at his critics. We saw who won that battle.

No coach is above reproach...sounds like a phrase for a country song doesn't it? :)
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I agree that you should be able to criticize while supporting. Nobody should be above reproach. He's an employee at a state school, so if you wanna get technical, if you live in the state of TN, he does answer to you and I.

What I'm saying is you have no proof Hinshaw can't be better than anyone you have mentioned, or any possible candidate. I'm not saying he is. I'm saying he's been on the job for a week and a half and he got recognition in the one recruit he was involved in. The recruit even mentioned his coaching techniques.

If you don't like that recruit, that's another issue entirely. CDD calls the shots, he pointed Chaney and Hinshaw at Nance, and they got the job done. If you're down on him for pulling Nance, thats kinda like saying Boise St. screwed up by not winning the National Championship this year. What else could they have done, they beat everyone on their schedule.
 
#45
#45
s1216 said:
Willis bailed and was enrolled at UNC before Dooley was hired. The rest of this post isn't much more factually correct either.
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I think it is a good write up and he has some valid points.
Many kids to most top level recruits have NFL dreams and they treat college recruitment just like a kid that wants to be a Doc or Lawyer treats it ...They go to get the best education ...football education .
It is nice to think that traditions , facilities , education are the only things being sold ...but a coach does sell himself and his staff and his ability to fulfill the needs of the athlete and get them to where they want to be.
These kids have parents , high school coaches and 'mentors' . Generally these folks steer the kids to the best place for the most success.
Kiffin turned the flashy coach , NFL training ground thing into a science and in his 2nd year was poised to field a top 3 class . Imagine the sucess his 'classes' would have garnered in his 4-5 th years . I would venture to say CLEAR CUT #1 classes. Because he is brilliant ? No ...because he openly sold what is taboo ...NFL training .
Dooley has done what he can to salvage this class and thus far as 'not hurt the team' . However , many of the kids he has taken are not need positions and were 2nd and 3rd choices to the kiffin crew . I can't fault him for that ...he has had no time to turn this around. I will be interested to see what he does next season .
I agree 100% that he has to get linemen in . Quality defensive linemen are needed right away and a couple of candidates to start on the O line would be great too.
No amount of receiver / RB will help if we cannot block or stop the run . Two things you must be able to do to win : run the ball , stop the run. Without marketable position coaches ...it will be a tough sell.
Need proof ...we are having a rush of interest from receivers ...look at the resume of the position coach.

I am hopeful that CDD can coach up the O linemen we have and find ways to work around the problem spots .

The D line still lacks depth and the fade in the 2nd half of many games was a condition of that .

Without these 2 positions next season we are in a heap of trouble .
 
#46
#46
I guess DD lost some bloggers numbers.It is a shame he doesn't know what hes doing without all our help.SARCASM
 
#47
#47
tennfever said:
I guess DD lost some bloggers numbers.It is a shame he doesn't know what hes doing without all our help.SARCASM
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I have no proof that he knows what he is doing
and no proof that he doesn't know what he is doing

I have no proof that he can recruit
Next season I can , and you and anybody else that wants to can analyze his recruiting success

Thus far he has gotten guys that were recruited by the previous coaches to stay , he has gotten guys that were secondary choices of the previous coaches to committ , and he has gotten committments from a couple of guys that are secondary talent that he was recruiting at La Tech. Not bad given the small amount of time he has ...but not enough to crown him Saban Jr.
 
#50
#50
TENNaciousUTfan said:
If we can somehow pull off a miracle and come away with both Ambles and Rogers, I hope that CDD comes to realize just how much impact it truly has on recruiting to have some NFL guys on staff, and preferably at the skill positions. It was having a clear impact in our recruiting before Kiffin left, and it looks like Bagget's hiring was a homerun for that position.

That's not to say he has to find NFL guys at each position, but when possible and feasible, it should carry a great deal of weight in the hiring decision process. And when we consider what we are up against with Florida, Bama and LSU (Georgia too some of the time), we need more so than anyone to have what Dooley called an "All Star" staff. Guys like Hinshaw, even if they turn out to eventually prove to be fairly good coaches, they will still be somewhat of a liability when it comes to recruiting...as they have nothing on their resume to impress a recruit.

Let's take Eddie Gran for example. Put him up against Hinshaw for a recruit in the same territory. Who do you think is going to come away the winner? Coaches have to be able to sell themselves to a recruit as much as the university. Willis bailed and went to UNC because, compared to Dooley and the staff in place, they had more to sell to a blue chip recruit with NFL aspirations....Butch Davis, Withers and Blake.

It's no secret around here that I wasn't too happy that Hamilton hired Dooley with better, more qualified candidates out there...but that's now water under the bridge. I just hope Dooley wakes up and realizes the significance of hiring BIG NAME/BIG SPLASH staff personnel when possible...as opposed to rolling the dice on what he thinks are up-N-comers. After all...the bigger the splash, the easier his job becomes.

To that end, with no DC or DL coach named, we are looking to take a massive hit with DT's. If John Brown doesn't qualify and Copeland goes elsewhere (very possible), we have just been shut out in an area of immensely critical need. In order for us to recover next year, I think we really need to go strong after Travis Jones (DL coach of the Saints) and then hire Chuck Smith. That would get some attention on the defensive side of the ball...just wait.

But if Dooley brings in Spangler and some other no name position coach for DL, we are in for a nuclear winter on the hill...and I personally predict that single act will spell his ouster in 2 seasons flat. It will get that ugly...that quick. If Dave Clawson taught us one thing...it's that this conference will chew up lower tier coaches and spit them out.

Let's hope he makes hires from here on out that all of Vol Nation, and future recruits, can get excited about.
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I'm sure CDD is hanging on your every word and really appreciates the blueprint for success from someone so qualified to give it.

Nothing at all against NFL coaches, I'm all for them if they are a good fit but they are not vital for success on the field or in recruiting and should not carry any more weight than any other trait in the hiring process. The programs with the top 3 ranked recruiting classes have virtually no NFL position coaching on staff.

What is vital IMO is getting coaches that can coach, believe in your system and what you're trying to do, mesh well with the rest of your staff, are tireless workers on the field and in recruiting and are hungry to win games because winning is the biggest recruiting tool there is, kids want to play for a winner, the best players want to play for the best teams, period.
 
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