At what point do you stop saying next man up...

#27
#27
I'd say right about here:

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#31
#31
livefaith said:
What's wrong with the S&C program? Short summary of what should bed different based on each case. Defense only.

Jalen Reeves-Maybin:

Cameron Sutton:

Darrin Kirkland:

Shy Tuttle:

Khalil McKenzie

Todd Kelly:

Evan Berry:

Micah Abernathy:

Daniel Bituli:

Danny O'Brien:

I've been hoping someone can explain how the SC program could have fixed each case this season. TIA.
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Hmm that's a talented defense
You forgot about Sapp

DE Tuttle
NT McKenzie
DE O'Brien
JL Bituli
ILB Kirkland
SP Reeves- Maybin
WL Sapp
CB Sutton
CB Abernathy
FS Berry
SS Kelly

That's an SEC defense...
 
#32
#32
Next walk on up!

Ladies and gentlemen, any student in relatively good shape, 6'3" or taller weighing 270 or more, please report to the UT Locker Room ASAP for a uniform fitting!
 
#33
#33
livefaith said:
What's wrong with the S&C program? Short summary of what should bed different based on each case. Defense only.

Jalen Reeves-Maybin:

Cameron Sutton:

Darrin Kirkland:

Shy Tuttle:

Khalil McKenzie

Todd Kelly:

Evan Berry:

Micah Abernathy:

Daniel Bituli:

Danny O'Brien:

I've been hoping someone can explain how the SC program could have fixed each case this season. TIA.
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Exactly and as you said thats only on Defense. At some point Every member of our defensive 2 deep has been on the shelf excepting Barnett, Vereen and Jumper.

We have not made it through 2 consecutive games with the same 5 guys starting at OL. We have not made it through a single game from beginning to end with the same O-line. Then factor in the defections of Hurd and Williams and thats 2 more big ones Plus the inner turmoil that had to have caused having those guys in the locker room.

Yeah it sounds cool in this place blame world we have to find someone to blame.. it can't just be a rash of bad luck someone has to be to blame. If there was some pattern to the injuries people might have a point but reality is guys got hurt playing football.. it happens. The issue with guys transfering because of playing time/role (Williams) or lack of fit for scheme (Hurd) sucked but shouldn't have been total surprises.

Hurd has always been a non-optimal fit to the scheme but his skill set allowed him to overcome it until he decided he wasn't in a position to display all his talents. Whoever gave him his advice imo gave bad advice. NFL scouts are kinda used to that sort of thing and if anything the fact he played in this offense and thrived was a good mark on his resume... Trust me if Joe Q Public is looking at these games and seeing that he would be a beast in the I so did scouts. They were also likely drooling that he ended up with a lot less mileage on his tires because of this scheme and sharing touches.

Seriously guys we are gonna be fine. Many people tried to pump the brakes on the hype train early in the preseason and no one wanted to listen. But even with the hype most reasonable pundits had us at 3 losses. We likely end up exactly there unless we go to the SECcG. Whoever we meet in a bowl is in for a long night. Next year barring All # scholarship QB's on the team transferring we will be fine and legitimately in contention for the SEC East. The sad fact though as long as Bama does not drop off because of the fact we play them regular season making the playoffs is gonna be a hard road.
 
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#34
#34
When you line your punter up at DT you stop saying it.

Seriously though, it is a stupid phrase.

Yes, next man up....but the next man was already deemed not as good by the coach hence he is a back up....and we he gets hurt that next man up was already deemed not as good as the guy before---by your own coach.

If all players are equal than why not just recruit a roster full of 2 stars and eliminate the recruiting budget?

The next man up stuff is stupid.

Your back ups are back ups for a reason and when you are playing teams like Bama and TX AM and FL you need your starters.
 
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#35
#35
Here's the thing about a good S&C program that people don't think about, when you begin to fatigue under heavy lifts it forces you to concentrate on technique and form when you begin to tire, it does not only build your body it builds your mental toughness to coin a butchism, soft S&C, loss of mental edge when fatiqued, can lead to bad technique and sloppiness in game situations and leave a player open and prone to injury.
 
#36
#36
discontent523 said:
Here's the thing about a good S&C program that people don't think about, when you begin to fatigue under heavy lifts it forces you to concentrate on technique and form when you begin to tire, it does not only build your body it builds your mental toughness to coin a butchism, soft S&C, loss of mental edge when fatiqued, can lead to bad technique and sloppiness in game situations and leave a player open and prone to injury.
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just because you have a lot of injuries does not mean its on S&C most of the mouth breathing parrots just heard it said so they repeat it without understanding the meaning of the word CONTEXT. They think UT is a stand alone complex operating in a vacuum.

Most people on VN think that just because you get better each year it means you win more games. That is only true if other teams you play do not improve at your level and/or regress.

Next year we will be a better team. So will Florida, Georgia and Alabama almost certainly. The difference will come down to who improves the most. Its it fairly likely we overtake our east opponents? The chances are very likely. What are the chances we overtake Bama with their returning QB who as a true freshman answered the only question they had as a team? Not likely. Here is the thing, that will not be a reflection on Butch it will be a reflection on the fact Saban has built a program that damn good that will take years to catch up to and some luck.

Should we expect and hope our team will reach for the stars? Heck yes but don't take it too far and live in a bubble separated from reality. Bama is not the best because the media says so. They are because they just freaking are right now and until we knock them off that they will remain. only 2 teams are really positioned to be able to pull such a feat off. Us and Auburn. Because of scheduling. That is our blessing and our curse.
 
#38
#38
Something was off from the beginning. Against Appalachian State and Ohio University we looked pretty damn bad. That was before most major injuries.
 
#39
#39
BanditVol said:
Right. Because we have done the equivalent of that. :banghead2:

Holy ****. You can cure stupid. :banghead2::banghead2::banghead2:
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ikr.... I love how cats throw around false equivalencies. Takes me back to the third grade......memories.
 
#41
#41
Catbone said:
Something was off from the beginning. Against Appalachian State and Ohio University we looked pretty damn bad. That was before most major injuries.
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Actually not it was not. The Oline started its mad keystones cops reenactment that very game. We were already down Kirland, (JRM) was ejected in the first quarter. Chance Hall was hurt before the game and we lost a couple guys during the game on the O-line not to mention JJ had been practicing in the green jersey the weeks leading up to it.The Ohio game is when it went mad when we lost Cam, JRM and Quarte Sapp also Malik foreman was hurt.

and it kept piling on. Even though the O-line never really lost more than one guy for an extended period of time we did lose a lot of guys during games forcing shuffling of positions. A sure recipe for disaster on offense which directly explains our turnovers. Yes Dobbs has thrown some bad balls. But it is atypical of him in his career. We also learned after SC that there was some locker room drama. If anyone has played organized sports especially football you will know what something like that does to a locker room.

Even thought I honestly think Hurd had no bad intentions just followed bad advice and had the wrong folks in his ear. His choices affected the team and how they played without him showed. In the A&M, TTU and Kentucky Games our offense looked totally different than it did every other game. Not talking about the running game I mean the Line and Dobbs. TTU it was like a monkey was lifted off his back.You could tell people were conflicted and confused about Hurd.

This is the one place I think butch made bad moves. He should have handled that situation better. Either bench the guy or give him what he wants. everyone else came at Butch that way was shown the door almost immediately but in the case of Hurd, Jones was understandably reticent of giving up. Williams became expendable because of JJ's development and the new kids coming in showing they were for real.

Hurd playing WR or TE made no sense at UT. Who does he take snaps from Wolfe? Croom? JJ? Kamara was already seen as a better receiving threat though JH was no slouch there. I form makes absolutely no sense with this roster. We do not have a single full back on this team the only guy that would have been qualified for that position was Hurd himself. It made me laugh when people said we should just run the I with Hurd.. yes we had some trick packages i for the I/Pistol. But those were just that. Gimmicks. We don't have the personnel for it and never recruited it. You scrap your whole system for one season with one guy when you have 2-3 other guys happy to play with the program and able to do it?
 
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#42
#42
OP is right. Our expecting were just too darn high, especially after the injuries bug ravaged the team. I do still think the USCjr game had other off the field issues that contributed to the loss, and Butch is responsible for a lot of it. But perhaps we should cut these guys some slack. We complain but their isn't any evidence that this coaching staff or players have quit. And they could have easily thrown in the towel after the losses. If they fight and claw back into the SECCG all should be forgiven. Losing to A&M and Bama pretty much eliminated us from playoff contention anyway. If we make it to the SECCG then the USCjr is loss is kind of irrelevant to an extent.

I have to eat crow here. I was super upset with Butch after the USCjr game but as they say winning heals all wounds - I'll hold off my opinion of Butch if we go to the SECCG. We however cannot lose to either Mizz or Vandy - two fairly inferior teams to the team we just beat Saturday.
 
#43
#43
sameolvol said:
You're just about as oblivious to reality :)crazy:) as a supposed football fan can be, young man. OP's thread hit the nail right on the head. 'Proof once again that it's fruitless to argue with a lunatic. Nonetheless...I'll give it a shot.

Now, as for winning so ugly versus Appy State and Ohio: Even the greatest of teams occasionally play down to the competition; only to turn up the jets when the game comes down to the final moments. About the come-from-behind win over VT: With at least a caricature of the team which came out of fall camp, both coaches Shoop and DeBord had at least enough players who could execute a decent number of plays in the playbook, so they took off just before halftime. UF? This game was about adjustments and UT got it straight, then had enough studs in the game to lay it to the gayduhs. The UGA game saw the dawgs playing their best game, and like a championship team the Vols pulled off a play they "believed" they'd make work...and it did. A&M was indicative of the team's resilience, despite the injuries before and during that game. Bammer was impossible to beat by a group that, even if they had all their starters on the field, they still only had a slight chance of pulling it off. USCjr caught our guys disoriented due to the necessary reorientation necessary to be re-tooled by a staff missing some key parts...and for the moral dearth due quite a lot to the J. Hurd situation. Tech was a chance to get some very green players some valuable snaps and then UK's running all over the Vols' defense just makes Bob Shoop earn his big bucks for upcoming Missouri. Let's look forward to the next two games and another shot at bammer. The Vols ought to wind up champions of the SEC east. Got it?:salute:
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Hope you feel better about yourself after this little tirade. :good!:

I know it gave me a pretty good chuckle this morning being called a lunatic not based in reality by the guy who has the SEC title and a win over Bama in the bag already.
 
#44
#44
JonGrudensAgent said:
Hope you feel better about yourself after this little tirade. :good!:

I know it gave me a pretty good chuckle this morning being called a lunatic not based in reality by the guy who has the SEC title and a win over Bama in the bag already.
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It's obvious to those who're normal that that wasn't a tirade by any stretch of reason...simply (as I mentioned beforehand) a fruitless attempt to apply reason to a person's own subjective conjecture as it is, indeed, fruitless to argue with a lunatic. Thus: Case in point. Also, I explained that winning out would give the Vols the SECe title and a shot at bammer...nothing in the bag, but chuckle on in your whimsical oblivion.:eek:lol:
 
#45
#45
BigALWiLson said:
I'll take a stab at this. I wouldn't necessarily say S&C is bad. What is bad imo is I don't think we had a physical camp like years past under Jones. I think that is the biggest problem. If you think about it, I'm not sure we heard even once about practices being physical this year. I know in previous years we heard plenty note the injuries to other teams the previous years.
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This has been my belief also. We just didn't start the season with that edge and physical style of play we have on the past. I hope he goes back to the more physical fall camps going forward.
 
#46
#46
Stop saying 'next man up' on January 1, 2017...until September 4, 2017. Hopefully after that, we won't have to say it much as we have this year.


:rock:
GBO!!!
 
#47
#47
sameolvol said:
It's obvious to those who're normal that that wasn't a tirade by any stretch of reason...simply (as I mentioned beforehand) a fruitless attempt to apply reason to a person's own subjective conjecture as it is, indeed, fruitless to argue with a lunatic. Thus: Case in point. Also, I explained that winning out would give the Vols the SECe title and a shot at bammer...nothing in the bag, but chuckle on in your whimsical oblivion.:eek:lol:
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You sure type a lot to say almost nothing. And you still haven't addressed a single point in my previous post about this team being undisciplined.

Thanks for the bloviation on the injuries though. Haven't seen anyone talking about that. :lol:
 
#48
#48
JonGrudensAgent said:
You sure type a lot to say almost nothing. And you still haven't addressed a single point in my previous post about this team being undisciplined.

Thanks for the bloviation on the injuries though. Haven't seen anyone talking about that. :lol:
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OK. I'm game. Those of us who've participated in the game are patently aware that the only plays at a coaches disposal are those which have been executed successfully in practice. With a roster so bereft as the Vols could field, a great percentage of those available plays/adjustments/sets aren't any longer available, thus the coaches are left with fewer answers to the plays/adjustments/sets that are being thrown at them by their adversaries, who are also aware of that problem caused by this loss of personnel. Subsequently, the expert wannabes blame the coaches for not implementing those plays/adjustments/sets they think come about just by telling those who they know will botch those plays to do it anyhow. Thus, the playbook, regrettably, must be simplified. Minus the majority of those injuries, UT would already be on easy street at making the trip to Atlanta, and would most likely still be in the conversation for the NCG. Do I blame the injuries as opposed to Butch's play-calling or discipline or to any other deficiency other than personnel attrition? You bet I do. Now. Go away.
 
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#49
#49
JonGrudensAgent said:
Well coached teams don't generally rank near the bottom in the nation in turnover margin and penalties.

Getting players to buy in and play hard and play smart has nothing to do with the injuries.

What has most upset is seeing how unprepared this team is week to week and how sloppy and undisciplined it has become compared to years past.

It's more of being lucky than playing well that has gotten them to 7-3 this season.
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0 for 4. Amazing
 
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#50
#50
NEOCON said:
When you line your punter up at DT you stop saying it.

Seriously though, it is a stupid phrase.

Yes, next man up....but the next man was already deemed not as good by the coach hence he is a back up....and we he gets hurt that next man up was already deemed not as good as the guy before---by your own coach.

If all players are equal than why not just recruit a roster full of 2 stars and eliminate the recruiting budget?

The next man up stuff is stupid.

Your back ups are back ups for a reason and when you are playing teams like Bama and TX AM and FL you need your starters.
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There is no place for logic here....:hi:
 
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