At what point did it become fine to blatantly hold?

[UTK]

I’m legit just sick of it. It’s not just a Tennessee thing, you see it everywhere. Blatant holds are just not called 90% of the time anymore. And no I don’t mean “there’s holding on ever play” kind of holds. When did this really start to become a thing where refs swallow the whistle on blatant holding? It’s legit tarnishing the product for me heavily the past couple years? Is it a “offense sells and makes games exciting thing” or what? There has to be clear direction at this point, I swear when I started watching this sport blatant holds were called much more consistently

 

[MHS Rebel]

What I want to know is why did they call defensive holding on a RUSHING play? Is it because it was the QB rushing? He was already beyond the LOS, so he wasn't looking to pass.

 

[VolPack22]

They damn sure call it every single time Nico scrambles for a first down.

 

[rjd970]

They damn sure call it every single time Nico scrambles for a first down.

This is true, it’s crazy.

 

[rjd970]

I’m legit just sick of it. It’s not just a Tennessee thing, you see it everywhere. Blatant holds are just not called 90% of the time anymore. And no I don’t mean “there’s holding on ever play” kind of holds. When did this really start to become a thing where refs swallow the whistle on blatant holding? It’s legit tarnishing the product for me heavily the past couple years? Is it a “offense sells and makes games exciting thing” or what? There has to be clear direction at this point, I swear when I started watching this sport blatant holds were called much more consistently

They can call it anytime they want and it’s subjective, and it being a 10 yard penalty affects the game. With gambling nowadays, it becomes suspect. I absolutely hate it and makes it easy to get matchups that will draw the most money in the post season.

 

[cherokeeeVOL]

When too much money became involved.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

The only way it can happen is if they make a "video" ref crew who are all watching each play and reviewing for everything and they can buzz down a holding call or something.

The problem is if they did start calling it more the complaints would be the game is slowing down the refs won't swallow their whistle. I'm not condoning it but I know how fans do, we'll start complaining they call it too much.

 

[ButchPlz]

They can call it anytime they want and it’s subjective, and it being a 10 yard penalty affects the game. With gambling nowadays, it becomes suspect. I absolutely hate it and makes it easy to get matchups that will draw the most money in the post season.

Like I said, there's no incentive to fix officiating. Bad officiating allows cover for outright bias and fixing- the conferences and TV networks can just blame fixing on bad calls. See Miami getting obviously handed games by the ACC multiple times this year.

 

[UTK]

They damn sure call it every single time Nico scrambles for a first down.

They only seem to call holding anymore if plays break down. That’s about the only time I see it tbh and it’s usually tick tack

 

[UTK]

The only way it can happen is if they make a "video" ref crew who are all watching each play and reviewing for everything and they can buzz down a holding call or something.

The problem is if they did start calling it more the complaints would be the game is slowing down the refs won't swallow their whistle. I'm not condoning it but I know how fans do, we'll start complaining they call it too much.

Well I want the game to be slowed down then. It’s stupid that blatant holds are ignored. There’s always refs staring right at them, they don’t need to make a video crew they just need to throw the damn flag lol

 

[UTK]

They can call it anytime they want and it’s subjective, and it being a 10 yard penalty affects the game. With gambling nowadays, it becomes suspect. I absolutely hate it and makes it easy to get matchups that will draw the most money in the post season.

That’s the thing, I’m not talking about that holding. I get that there’s some holding on every play. I’m talking about the ones where Dline get headlocked or bear hugged, those you just have to flat out always call. Nothing subjective about that. Common sense

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Holding happens in every single game. Many times actually. Remember an OL we had named Spencer Riley? He was talking on the Dave Hooker show awhile back and said this “we are taught, as OL to hold. If you aren’t holding on every play, you aren’t doing your job.”

Stop complaining about holding. Our OL holds all the time and it’s missed.

 

[VOLLeeann]

Dam refs. Don't we all hate them?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Dam refs. Don't we all hate them?

Yep. Some like to complain about them every game though regardless of the sport.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Holding happens in every single game. Many times actually. Remember an OL we had named Spencer Riley? He was talking on the Dave Hooker show awhile back and said this “we are taught, as OL to hold. If you aren’t holding on every play, you aren’t doing your job.”

Stop complaining about holding. Our OL holds all the time and it’s missed.

^^^^ This. The name of the game for the O Line is hold right up to the edge of getting the flag. If you don't like THEM holding us, you're not watching US holding them.

Are there holds that are over the limit that aren't called? Yes, and on us too. There's also a lot of handsy work, including push offs by receivers, in the secondary that aren't called. The "pick routes" to spring receivers are off the charts these days and most are uncalled.

UT teaches pushing the envelope of the rules as much as anyone but when flags are called on us invariably I see "ticky tack" "they hate us" "rigged" and such BS.

Actually, we push the rules as much as anyone and get away with it. A game where every rule infraction was called would last 5-6hrs without commercials.

Like life, sports is the art of pushing the rules right to the limit, sometimes beyond, to get your best outcome.

 

[VolInNW]

^^^^ This. The name of the game for the O Line is hold right up to the edge of getting the flag. If you don't like THEM holding us, you're not watching US holding them.

Are there holds that are over the limit that aren't called? Yes, and on us too. There's also a lot of handsy work, including push offs by receivers, in the secondary that aren't called. The "pick routes" to spring receivers are off the charts these days and most are uncalled.

UT teaches pushing the envelope of the rules as much as anyone but when flags are called on us invariably I see "ticky tack" "they hate us" "rigged" and such BS.

Actually, we push the rules as much as anyone and get away with it. A game where every rule infraction was called would last 5-6hrs without commercials.

Like life, sports is the art of pushing the rules right to the limit, sometimes beyond, to get your best outcome.

I don't disagree that we push the envelope. But to argue that we get the same whistle as Bama or uga is absurd. Do we get away with infractions? Sure. All teams do. But a statistically significant amount of the time Bama or uga is going to get either the call, or there will be no call. Especially at critical times.

Does it 'decide' games? No. But it sure as heck either shifts or reinforces momentum. And teams who get the good whistle can be save from a rough patch at times because of it.

It is just how the world works. And until Tennessee starts winning more, AND our coach and AD call out the refs like other coaches do, we simply won't get a good whistle.

 

[Visidog]

I don't disagree that we push the envelope. But to argue that we get the same whistle as Bama or uga is absurd. Do we get away with infractions? Sure. All teams do. But a statistically significant amount of the time Bama or uga is going to get either the call, or there will be no call. Especially at critical times.

Does it 'decide' games? No. But it sure as heck either shifts or reinforces momentum. And teams who get the good whistle can be save from a rough patch at times because of it.

It is just how the world works. And until Tennessee starts winning more, AND our coach and AD call out the refs like other coaches do, we simply won't get a good whistle.

In conference play, UGA is the 11th least penalized team (6th most). UT is one spot worse. In terms of flags on opponents in conference play, UGA averages gets the third fewest called on opponents in yardage term. Tennessee gets the fourth most.

In other words, in conference play, UGA and Tennessee get flagged about the same, but UGA averages getting many fewer calls against opponents than Tennessee does.

 

[CAVPUT]

I’m legit just sick of it. It’s not just a Tennessee thing, you see it everywhere. Blatant holds are just not called 90% of the time anymore. And no I don’t mean “there’s holding on ever play” kind of holds. When did this really start to become a thing where refs swallow the whistle on blatant holding? It’s legit tarnishing the product for me heavily the past couple years? Is it a “offense sells and makes games exciting thing” or what? There has to be clear direction at this point, I swear when I started watching this sport blatant holds were called much more consistently

The devolving of the sport has been underway for some time. In the name of "player safety", we've made the sport a ridiculous penalty fest to reduce physicality. They've ruined kick/punt returns. You graze a players head making an effort play and it's a penalty. Grab a player from behind around the shoulders and it's called. On the other side tho, you can grab, hold, and generally molest a WR as a defensive back. You can grab and sumo wrestle an DL player by a OL and its all part of today's shell of a game. The list goes on, but it's simply the devolving of a sport some of us older posters used to know and love.

 

[Bearkat_Vol]

In conference play, UGA is the 11th least penalized team (6th most). UT is one spot worse. In terms of flags on opponents in conference play, UGA averages gets the third fewest called on opponents in yardage term. Tennessee gets the fourth most.

In other words, in conference play, UGA and Tennessee get flagged about the same, but UGA averages getting many fewer calls against opponents than Tennessee does.

Source?
Tennessee averages 8.71 penalties per SEC game this year and 68.7 yards in penalties per SEC game. Our SEC opponents averaged 8 penalties per game with an average of 63.3 yards in penalties.
Georgia averages 6.25 penalties per SEC game this year and 59.9 yards in penalties per SEC game. Georgia's SEC opponents averaged 6.5 penalties per game with an average of 48.25 yards in penalties.

That's 2.5 more penalties per SEC game for Tennessee (almost forty percent more penalties per SEC game).
My sources:
Tennessee game logs: Tennessee Volunteers 2024 Game Log | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
cfbstats.com - 2024 Tennessee Volunteers Penalty Game Log
Georgia game logs: Georgia Bulldogs 2024 Game Log | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
cfbstats.com - 2024 Georgia Bulldogs Penalty Game Log
NCAA list of penalties by team: NCAA College Football FBS current team Stats | NCAA.com

 

[miket4god]

I’m legit just sick of it. It’s not just a Tennessee thing, you see it everywhere. Blatant holds are just not called 90% of the time anymore. And no I don’t mean “there’s holding on ever play” kind of holds. When did this really start to become a thing where refs swallow the whistle on blatant holding? It’s legit tarnishing the product for me heavily the past couple years? Is it a “offense sells and makes games exciting thing” or what? There has to be clear direction at this point, I swear when I started watching this sport blatant holds were called much more consistently

Usually depends on the team doing the holding.

 

[VolInNW]

In conference play, UGA is the 11th least penalized team (6th most). UT is one spot worse. In terms of flags on opponents in conference play, UGA averages gets the third fewest called on opponents in yardage term. Tennessee gets the fourth most.

In other words, in conference play, UGA and Tennessee get flagged about the same, but UGA averages getting many fewer calls against opponents than Tennessee does.

And if you look at raw numbers, Bama is right about average in calls. However, many of those calls are at non-critical times, and are IMHO an attempt (consciously or not) to 'even things up' for the numbers.

Saturday was not decided by the refs, BUT there were a critical number of close calls at huge moments which certainly affected the flow and momentum. And THAT is the essence of a good or bad whistle.

And Bearkat sorta dismantled your point anyway.

 

[05_never_again]

Many officials have said over the years that they are told to call holding, particularly offensive holding, only if it is reasonably close to the point of attack or otherwise directly affects the play. For example, a hold by the left tackle gets called if the offense runs the ball off to the left side of the offensive line. If the play was a run the other way, it won't get called. That cliché about "you could call holding on just about every play if you wanted to" is pretty much true; if you watch highlights or replays during games and really pay attention to the offensive linemen, the hands of at least one of the offensive linemen gets outside about every play, and he won't immediately let go. That is technically holding as the rule is written. It's just part of the game.

Having said that, I've seen holding not get called at least a dozen times this year right in front of the QB (and right in front of the referee) when we have a rushing DE who absolutely otherwise would have gotten to the QB.

 

[Visidog]

Source?
Tennessee averages 8.71 penalties per SEC game this year and 68.7 yards in penalties per SEC game. Our SEC opponents averaged 8 penalties per game with an average of 63.3 yards in penalties.
Georgia averages 6.25 penalties per SEC game this year and 59.9 yards in penalties per SEC game. Georgia's SEC opponents averaged 6.5 penalties per game with an average of 48.25 yards in penalties.

That's 2.5 more penalties per SEC game for Tennessee (almost forty percent more penalties per SEC game).
My sources:
Tennessee game logs: Tennessee Volunteers 2024 Game Log | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
cfbstats.com - 2024 Tennessee Volunteers Penalty Game Log
Georgia game logs: Georgia Bulldogs 2024 Game Log | College Football at Sports-Reference.com
cfbstats.com - 2024 Georgia Bulldogs Penalty Game Log
NCAA list of penalties by team: NCAA College Football FBS current team Stats | NCAA.com

CFB stats will sort by conference games. That’s my source for everything!

 

[Visidog]

CFB stats will sort by conference games. That’s my source for everything!

And I should add that CFB stats has a “opponents penalties” stat that you can also limit to conference games.

 

[LouderVol]

Many officials have said over the years that they are told to call holding, particularly offensive holding, only if it is reasonably close to the point of attack or otherwise directly affects the play. For example, a hold by the left tackle gets called if the offense runs the ball off to the left side of the offensive line. If the play was a run the other way, it won't get called. That cliché about "you could call holding on just about every play if you wanted to" is pretty much true; if you watch highlights or replays during games and really pay attention to the offensive linemen, the hands of at least one of the offensive linemen gets outside about every play, and he won't immediately let go. That is technically holding as the rule is written. It's just part of the game.

Having said that, I've seen holding not get called at least a dozen times this year right in front of the QB (and right in front of the referee) when we have a rushing DE who absolutely otherwise would have gotten to the QB.

its the same thing on defense. just about every CB in man coverage is going to hold the WR they are covering every play. its typically only called if it impacts their ability to catch or run the route.