As Clay put it

#51
#51
ukvols said:
Of all of the decisions Butch has made in games that have been questionable, I don't think this one is nearly the worst. If we had been down by 10, then he should have kicked. When you're down by 11, either decision is defensible, because, as has been said, you don't know if you're going to make the 2 later on. My issues with this game are the offense scoring no TDs in the second half and the defense continually getting creamed on 3rd down in the second half.
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What did the chart say?
 
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#52
#52
WesternKyVol said:
Meh. if you're gonna lose, you're gonna lose. I think it was the high percentage choice. I bet advanced stats would back me up.
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Apparently analytics don't back you up
But to me it just proves he's not calm under pressure and in way over his head
Reacts instead of having a plan
 
#53
#53
led0321 said:
"Every 12 year old playing Madden knows to kick the FG, kick the onside kick, score and TD and go for 2"

Butch 8-4 Jones.
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It would have taken a miracle either way and we hadn't score but 3 points the entire second half...what makes you think we were on the verge of scoring 10 in a minute and a half? Stupid yes but wasn't going to win us the game or lose it...we had already done that by that time.

Ps clay Travis is just piggy backing off everyone else nothing shattering...controversy gains listeners without them he's jobless just like finebaum
 
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#54
#54
Jones has made so many egregious coaching errors the past two seasons that it just feels like piling on at this point.

This was far from his worst though.

I'd have to say that call was hiring a DC and not letting him bring his own position coaches in. I have a hard time believing that Shoop has gone from hero to zero this fast on his own.
 
#55
#55
IknoxvolsI said:
What did the chart say?
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The chart didn't say anything, because the chart never existed. The chart that said to go for 1, the analytics that said to kick from a foot out, and the idea of this being the best staff in America all came from the same aisle of fiction.
 
#56
#56
Hairy Vols said:
That's what I was thinking. You need the touchdown. If you score and don't get the two point you know you need to score again. I think either way there isn't a wrong decision. I understood his logic and see this as a non issue.
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Honestly, given how much time was blown on the drive to get to 4th and 4 I agree with going for the TD. Jones was going to be lucky to get back within field goal range if he got the onside kick, let alone score a TD.
 
#57
#57
If they would coach, develop players, and make better decisions then they wouldn't be.down by 11 with couple mins to go. Embarrassing that we were in that position.
 
#58
#58
JFreak said:
I haven't head it from Butch, but I would guess his thinking was as follows. You're within 10 yds so go ahead and get the TD and try for 2. If you miss the 2 then you know you need to recover the onside kick and go for another TD vice just another FG. Essentially removing the situation where not getting the 2 pt conversion ends the game.
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Agreed. Butch deserves the heat he's catching for losing, but the overwhelming criticism he's catching for this decision is hard to agree with.
 
#59
#59
VolsSportsFan said:
But you get the FG, you live to play. You don't get the first down, as happened, you're done. I get Medley missed a chip shot, but you should like his chances with another chip shot as opposed to a probable long FG, if we are talking pressure.

Also I'd understand the call more if after a TO they had a better play called, but they do all that to run a play where the ball wasn't even thrown past the first down marker.
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A long FG is easier than a long TD. If you need both, you take the TD first. Onside kick gives you the ball fifty yards away. Made perfect sense to me.
 
#60
#60
And this play that folks are debating is NOT what lost the game. It was the inability to stop Vandy from scoring that lost the game.

Clay focuses on this because if he focuses on the real reason the game was lost, he needs to focus his attention to someone different. He had Dooley on his show - that should tell you all you need to know.
 
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#61
#61
Doesn't matter. The easiest solution to the situation is to not give up over 40 points to sorry ass Vandy. Just saying. The 34 points that our offense scored should have been more than enough to end the game.
 
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#63
#63
volfan102455 said:
And this play that folks are debating is NOT what lost the game. It was the inability to stop Vandy from scoring that lost the game.

Clay focuses on this because if he focuses on the real reason the game was lost, he needs to focus his attention to someone different. He had Dooley on his show - that should tell you all you need to know.
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Jones has recruited 82 players into this program the past 3 seasons.

He owns this team now.
 
#65
#65
volfan102455 said:
What does that have to do with my reply? Clay is harping on what he is harping on rather than harping on what actually was the problem in the game.
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Clay focuses on this because if he focuses on the real reason the game was lost, he needs to focus his attention to someone different. He had Dooley on his show - that should tell you all you need to know.


I read that and it seems your point is Dooley is the reason the Vols lost Saturday.

Trying to put this season on Dooley 4 years after he left is getting a little ridiculous is my point.
 
#66
#66
WesternKyVol said:
Has someone checked this? Link? Siap
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I don't know, but every talking head I've seen has questioned the decision and plenty say it was "Coaching 101" to kick it. I've not seen anyone defend it.

You can argue they're all idiots, but I can argue so is Butch :)
 
#68
#68
Volle said:
It was a bad decision because the failed 4th down conversion ended the game right there!

You want to extend the game for the hope something good happens.

Make the FG and you're still alive.
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This is what 98% of coaches do and what Butch Jones said after the A&M game when ask about a similar situation in that game!

You never know what he will do but you can count on about 50% of the time it will be the wrong call when the game is on the line,
But he will have an excuse 100% of the time why it was the "right" call
 
#70
#70
The main issue i had with that play is that Kamara just ran out of bounds.

How do you not know the situation
 
#71
#71
Vol4Life2007 said:
I watched the Michigan Ohio St game, and you can clearly see (Urban Meyer), how amazing coaches make decisions. Don;t get me wrong I hate Urban Meyer, but he is a hell of a coach. What I thought was weak was that Mich didn;t go for 2 in the first OT. The QB wanted it!
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Lol he should have lost the game because imo they did not get the first down. To me his call was wrong but since the refs are incompetent it falsely appears that he made an awesome fearless call.
 
#72
#72
99gator said:
The main issue i had with that play is that Kamara just ran out of bounds.

How do you not know the situation
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This...He ran out of bounds to stop the clock? You could tell he realized what he did, right when he stopped running.
It would have been tough to get the 1st down, but Kamara was running with power that night.
 
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