as a Centrist.. who should I be supporting?

#76
#76
My question is if Obama wins another term (which I don't think will happen), will he keep talking about Bush well past 2013?
 
#80
#80
KiffinKiller said:
who cares. if him talking about bush bugs you. don't listen.
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I listen to Obama as little as possible. However it's sad to see people who vote be clueless about the people on the ballot. Bush isn't running again and Obama has accomplished nothing.
 
#81
#81
Aren't politics meant to be partisan? I don't recall any time in history where politicians didn't fight and call out other parties. Even going back to the Whigs and Democratic-Republicans.
 
#82
#82
Billy Costigan said:
Hey guys, I am a very hardcore Centrist. I took an online test to find out about my political beliefs. The last presidential election was the first time I got to legally vote and I voted for the McCain/Palin ticket but only mainly because my mama hates Barrack Obama so bad. Since then I have discovered I'm a Centrist but I haven't been able to keep up with debates and stuff as much this year as I'd like so I was wondering which person do you think I should be supporting based on my Centrist beliefs?
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Hardcore centrist...
weirdlook.gif


Is that the opposite of a moderate extremist?
 
#83
#83
utvolpj said:
how many jobs did that create?

Probably somewhere in the thousands which really isn't all that much though.

what does that have to do with what Obama is doing?
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Oh I don't know, I was just trying to get a comparison. I am pretty clueless, with that being said I probably just won't even vote unless I'm blown away by someone at the conventions.
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#84
#84
Billy Costigan said:
Oh I don't know, I was just trying to get a comparison. I am pretty clueless, with that being said I probably just won't even vote unless I'm blown away by someone at the conventions.
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Respect Billy. I can't stand people that do nothing to inform themselves and they vote. That's why we're ****ed, IMO. Rock the Vote needs to get blowed up.

Simply voting is not fulfilling your civic duty. I wish less people would vote and we could get rid of these "vote or die" idiots that need uninformed people to get their guy elected.
 
#85
#85
nbakerld said:
Respect Billy. I can't stand people that do nothing to inform themselves and they vote. That's why we're ****ed, IMO. Rock the Vote needs to get blowed up.

Simply voting is not fulfilling your civic duty. I wish less people would vote and we could get rid of these "vote or die" idiots that need uninformed people to get their guy elected.
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Thanks. utpjvol's post at 9:05 kind of made me think about it and it is dumb to be clueless and just vote. Last time I voted for McCain simply because my family hates Obama so much and I thought Palin was hot plus I had never voted in a presidential election and wanted to.
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#86
#86
I'm glad people want to try and make an informed vote. Too many look for the R or D and cast their vote that way (and many politicians bank on that). I just think anyone saying the current Pres is doing a fine job really hasn't looked deep enough
 
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#88
#88
Anyone that doesn't pay enough attention to the issues to know who to vote for on their own, shouldn't be voting period. They should just go back to watching Entertainment Tonight or the X-Factor and leave the voting to the adults.
 
#90
#90
Billy Costigan said:
Hey guys, I am a very hardcore Centrist. I took an online test to find out about my political beliefs. The last presidential election was the first time I got to legally vote and I voted for the McCain/Palin ticket but only mainly because my mama hates Barrack Obama so bad. Since then I have discovered I'm a Centrist but I haven't been able to keep up with debates and stuff as much this year as I'd like so I was wondering which person do you think I should be supporting based on my Centrist beliefs?
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You basically took a test created by someone with a political position, right? I am not saying they are necessarily agenda driven... but you cannot discount that possibility either.

MOST of those tests I have seen virtually preclude someone from self identifying as a libertarian.... someone who believes gov't should protect both civil and economic freedoms.
 
#91
#91
KiffinKiller said:
partisans: chasing pretty lies since 1776...
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"Non-partisans" swallowing pretty lies hook, line, and sinker forever.

The problem isn't people who know what they believe and why and turn those beliefs into action.
 
#93
#93
sjt18 said:
"Non-partisans" swallowing pretty lies hook, line, and sinker forever.

The problem isn't people who know what they believe and why and turn those beliefs into action.
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You've never heard of the tyranny of good intentions?
 
#94
#94
HSVol said:
So, one side is represented by utgibbs. The other is represented by gsvol.

And these are our choices?

Just because you don't fit into the right or left box doesn't mean you don't have conviction, lack courage to stand up for what you believe, or "have no balls."
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No. The sides defy party boundaries though most Dems currently line up on one side.

The boundary is what you believe about gov't. Is gov't's role to manage society or is it to protect rights allowing the free people to manage their own affairs?

Those on the first side believe that societal order, security, and fairness are impossible without gov't manipulating the populace. Those on the other side believe that society can NEVER be just when a central authority has the ability to manipulate the populace.
 
#95
#95
HSVol said:
You're right, it's difficult to categorize. I just think centrists believe what they believe...It varies wildly which is why there is no "center" party. Our SMDP system doesn't allow for the rise of alternative parties that represent a wider array of beliefs. That doesn't mean that people that don't fit as Democrats or Republicans don't have a belief system.
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Centrists are people who have for various reasons not chosen a guiding principle... they haven't chosen a philosophy that provides logic to decide what to believe or not to believe. They hold positions that are inherently contradictory because they choose them because they "sound good" or are emotionally appealing or whatever.

A knowledgeable liberal follows a sequence of reasoning. I disagree with them... but they generally have some path of logic to the positions they take.
 
#96
#96
so people that lie somewhere between dem and rep are lost in the wind? excuse me while i barf.
 
#97
#97
nbakerld said:
You've never heard of the tyranny of good intentions?
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I am specifically talking about OUR current problems.

We have "centrists" going back and forth between two almost mutually exclusive political philosophies thus preventing either from implementing their "program". Neither has a legit shot to succeed but the path we are own is sure to result in failure.

If they chose Progressivism... then at least we'd reach the point of collapse quickly, collapse, and then have a chance to rebuild a free nation(s).
 
#98
#98
KiffinKiller said:
so people that lie somewhere between dem and rep are lost in the wind? excuse me while i barf.
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People who do not know why they believe what they believe or accept contradictory lines of reasoning to arrive at different positions... are yes, lost in the wind. That is a fairly good way to say it.

Barf all you want... that's probably a good reaction to being unable to choose a consistent philosophy with at least some hope of achieving societal success.

Maybe you can help clear this up for us.

One side says, "Gov't is a force for "good" (definitions vary from promoting the master race to assuring "equality to all") and should therefore have power over people and property." The other side says, "Gov't's only rightful function is to protect the rights of individuals who are the rightfully and justly "sovereign" over their own affairs and responsible for themselves."

What is the "middle ground" the "hardcore centrist" position between those who believe in the Jeffersonian principle of the gov't that governs least governs best and the Progressive principle that gov't has a responsibility to assure "equitable" outcomes? You cannot go in two directions at once... that is EXACTLY what centrists seem to want. The halt between two positions lacking the knowledge or else courage to choose one.
 
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#99
#99
you are telling me all people who either don't believe specifically in the rep or dem talking points don't know why they believe what they believe.

this is silly
 
#100
#100
KiffinKiller said:
you are telling me all people who either don't believe specifically in the rep or dem talking points don't know why they believe what they believe.

this is silly
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Not at all.

I don't trust either party or politicians generally. It is EXACTLY the propensity of "centrists" to alternately believe the lies of one side or the other that makes them a HUGE part of the problem. If you know what you believe and why then apply it consistently... you are less apt to be fooled by talking points.

Do you think Bush won the centrists by being honest about his governing philosophy? Obama? For that matter, Bush won conservatives by lying to them about what he believed about gov't. No one is completely immune.
 
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