Are We Really That Much Safer?

#1
OWB

OWB

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#1
We have all heard George W Bush claim that the world is much safer than it was pre 9/11, but is it true? To hear the White House officials talk, you'd think that there hasn't been an Al quaeda related terrorist attack anywhere in the world since the "War on Terror" started. So I thought I'd list all the Al Quaeda attacks since 9/11 here for people to look over.

4/11/02 - Tunisia - Vehicle bomb attack against a synagogue on the resort island of Djerba.

5/8/02 - Pakistan - Bomb attack against bus carrying French engineers near Sheraton Hotel.

6/14/02 - Pakistan - Truck bomb attack against US Consulate. 12 killed, 51 injured.

10/6/02 - Yemen - Boat bomb attack against French oil tanker MV Limburg off Ash Shahir port. 1 killed.

10/12/02 - Indonesia (Bali) - Attacks against US Consulate, Sari Club and Paddy's Bar. 202 killed, including 26 Britons.

11/28/02 - Kenya - Attack on an Israeli-owned hotel. 12 killed. Surface-to-air missile launched at Israeli airliner the same day.

5/12/03 - Saudi Arabia - Attacks at 3 compounds housing expatriates. Over 30 killed.

5/16/03 - Morocco - Multiple suicide bombings against Spanish club, hotel and sites. 45 dead, c.100 injured.

8/5/03 - Indonesia - Vehicle bomb attack against Marriott Hotel. c. 12 killed, 100 injured.

11/3/03 - Saudi Arabia - Major vehicle bomb attack against residential compound housing mainly expatriate workers from other Arab countries. 17 killed, over 80 injured.

11/15/03 - 2 vehicle bomb attacks at Jewish synagogues.

11/20/03 - Turkey - 2 vehicle bombs at HSBC Bank and British Consulate. Together with 15 Nov attack, over 60 people killed (including 2 Britons).

3/11/04 - Spain - Bomb attacks against 4 trains. Terrorists blew themselves up when confronted by police. 199 killed.

5/1/04 - Saudi Arabia - Attack on expatriate oil workers. 6 foreign nationals and 1 Saudi killed.

5/30/05 - Saudi Arabia - 4 attacks in Al Khobbar target oil companies and compound.

9/9/04 - Indonesia - Vehicle bomb outside Australian Embassy. 9 killed, over 100 injured.

10/8/04 - Egypt - Large explosions at Hilton Hotel in Taba and at 2 campsites in the Sinai area. Over 30 killed.

10/28/04 - Pakistan - Explosion at Marriott Hotel. 7 injured.

3/19/05 - Qatar - Vehicle bomb attack outside the Doha Players' Theatre. 1 (British national) killed, 12 injured.

4/7/05 - Egypt - Attack near tourist bazaar in Cairo. 2 French nationals and one American killed, c.18 injured.

4/30/05 - Tourist bus fired on in Cairo. 8 injured.

6/7/05 - London - 4 explosions - 3 in tube trains, one in bus. At least 52 dead, 700 injured.

7/23/ 05 - Egypt - car bombs killed about 90 civilians and wounded over 150. The attack was the deadliest terrorist action in the history of Egypt.

11/9/05 - Jordan - Attacks on American owned hotels in Amman. The blast killed at least 57 people and injured 120 people.
The number of terrorist attacks worldwide increased nearly fourfold in 2005 to 11,111, with strikes in Iraq accounting for 30 percent of the total, according to statistics released by U.S. counterterrorism officials yesterday.


Although only half of the incidents resulted in loss of life, more than 14,600 noncombatants were killed, a majority of them in Iraq alone and 80 percent in the Near East and South Asia. American nonmilitary deaths totaled 56.
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These attacks don't even include the ones in Iraq or Afghanistan. They don't include attacks from other terrorist organizations such as Hamas, Hezbollah or other extremist groups.

They also don't include the fact that while the U.S has been preoccupied in Iraq, Iran is developing their nuclear power and North Korea is testing missles that could eventually carry nuclear bombs.

Then add the new report "leaked" saying that the war in Iraq has actually made terrorism worse.

So I ask you, do you all really think that we're safer than we were before? Why do you feel that way?
 
#2
#2
I feel safer that no one else on the flight to DC will have hair gel, toothpaste, or many deodorants.
 
#4
#4
Has he really claimed that the "world" is "much" safer?

I thought his claim was the US is safer.

Based on the list and comparing it to pre 9/11 it could be argued the US has been safer.
 
#5
#5
CSpindizzy said:
I feel safer that no one else on the flight to DC will have hair gel, toothpaste, or many deodorants.
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You should. If you knew what a tube of hair gel or toothpaste sized explosive could do to an airplane (which is a flying pipebomb), you wouldn't be so sarcastic.
 
#6
#6
OrangeSquare said:
You should. If you knew what a tube of hair gel or toothpaste sized explosive could do to an airplane (which is a flying pipebomb), you wouldn't be so sarcastic.
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:wassup:
 

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#8
#8
volinbham said:
Has he really claimed that the "world" is "much" safer?
.
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Yes he has, I just heard it on the news again..

Goes a little something like this..

"5 years after 9/11, the world is much safer and America is winning the war on terror."
 
#9
#9
How would you measure it either way, there is no way to account for every thing we have done covertly and the same would be true for terrorists.

It would all be a matter of perception and or political camp/doctrine you may follow.

Democrat will automatically say it is worse.

Vice versa for Republicans, every thing is fine and stay the course.

Libertarian........invade Mexico or build a wall!
 
#10
#10
We libertarians know that safety from anything is just an illusion. The world is a nasty place.
 
#11
#11
OWB said:
Yes he has, I just heard it on the news again..

Goes a little something like this..

"5 years after 9/11, the world is much safer and America is winning the war on terror."
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A reasonable person could in fact conclude that America's "War on Terror" has incited violence across the globe.

A reasonable person could also conclude that no repsonse to terrorism after 9/11 could have easily emboldened the terrorist as well.

Finally, a reasonable person could conclude that the 9/11 event itself sparked a "revival" for the terrorist irrespective of America's response. "Religous awakenings" whether Christian, Jewish, or Muslim historically inexplicably spread like wildfire after a percipitating event.
 
#12
#12
We libertarians know that safety from anything is just an illusion. The world is a nasty place.
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So every citizen should be armed with........

dvic552.jpg
 
#13
#13
I can't wait until you pull me over for doing 70 down I-75 in my M-1 Abrams.
 
#15
#15
You know OWB, not everyone that mentions something being dangerous is trying to scare people. Sometimes, just sometimes people chose jobs so that they can help save people's lives and keep them safe. Sometimes, in those lines of work you are privy to information that the general public is not privy to, which means that those people have a little better understanding about threats and posibilities of danger than the general public.

So, what I'm trying to say is, take your little pictures, and your political agenda, and save it for someone that believes like you do, that we live in a perfectly safe world, where no one wants to kill anyone, and no one has the capability to injure or kill thousands with a single act. Get all your friends together in one of those circles you all do, and then go plant a tree and reaffirm that everything's going to be all right. Meanwhile, the rest of us will continue being vigilant and protecting ourselves and our fellow Americans whenever, and however we can.
 
#16
#16
You know OWB, not everyone that mentions something being dangerous is trying to scare people. Sometimes, just sometimes people chose jobs so that they can help save people's lives and keep them safe. Sometimes, in those lines of work you are privy to information that the general public is not privy to, which means that those people have a little better understanding about threats and posibilities of danger than the general public.
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I agree

So, what I'm trying to say is, take your little pictures, and your political agenda, and save it for someone that believes like you do
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I don't think I'll let you trample on my freedom of speech today.
 

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#17
#17
While I share different opinions:

I don't care who you are, thats funny right there.
 
#21
#21
If we actually are or are not safer is an unknowable answer.

As to "feeling" safer that's a tough one too. Pre-9/11, terrorism was someone else's problem. While we had been touched by it repeatedly, most of the attacks were out of the country. Make no mistake, terrorism was occuring globally -- the public just wasn't paying attention to it.

Rather than definitively state safer/not safer how about a list of encouraging and discouraging indicators:

Encouraging -

AQ has been operationally and strategically weakened. Leaders captured and killed, operational bases destroyed, safe havens greatly reduced, tactics and methods uncovered.

Increased vigilance and security measures have been successful. Numerous large scale attacks thwarted.

Removal of some barriers to surveillance, detection and prevention including the removal of the "wall" between intelligence agencies in the US.

Increased international cooperation on disrupting and catching terrorists including closer cooperative ties with countries such as Pakistan.

Change in attitude from total fear from terrorists to fear mixed with resolve.


Discouraging

Increasing jihadism mentality. More people pissed off.

Inevitable shift to soft targets.

Inability of even Western world to agree on the real problems and act together to reduce the threat.


Overall Assessment - I think we're much more able to fight and defend ourselves against terrorism than we were prior to 9/11. Unfortunately we have to be because there's more mad people out there.
 
#22
#22
volinbham said:
If we actually are or are not safer is an unknowable answer.

As to "feeling" safer that's a tough one too. Pre-9/11, terrorism was someone else's problem. While we had been touched by it repeatedly, most of the attacks were out of the country. Make no mistake, terrorism was occuring globally -- the public just wasn't paying attention to it.

Rather than definitively state safer/not safer how about a list of encouraging and discouraging indicators:

Encouraging -

AQ has been operationally and strategically weakened. Leaders captured and killed, operational bases destroyed, safe havens greatly reduced, tactics and methods uncovered.

Increased vigilance and security measures have been successful. Numerous large scale attacks thwarted.

Removal of some barriers to surveillance, detection and prevention including the removal of the "wall" between intelligence agencies in the US.

Increased international cooperation on disrupting and catching terrorists including closer cooperative ties with countries such as Pakistan.

Change in attitude from total fear from terrorists to fear mixed with resolve.


Discouraging

Increasing jihadism mentality. More people pissed off.

Inevitable shift to soft targets.

Inability of even Western world to agree on the real problems and act together to reduce the threat.


Overall Assessment - I think we're much more able to fight and defend ourselves against terrorism than we were prior to 9/11. Unfortunately we have to be because there's more mad people out there.
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Good post. Wish I could say that for the one before you.
 
#25
#25
OWB said:
Here ya go Grandpa, we all know how grumpy you get when you're not regular.
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Mind your manners junior and learn some discipline, otherwise you'll grow up to be a lazy, self absorbed liber... oh wait a minute to late.
 
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