Are we really a top 5 team this year?

Where should we be ranked in preseason?

  • Top 5

    Votes: 88 30.1%
  • 5-10

    Votes: 117 40.1%
  • 10-15

    Votes: 71 24.3%
  • Top 25

    Votes: 16 5.5%

  • Total voters
    292
#27
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#27
I think between 10-15 is more like it. We are one outstanding guard away, IMO.
True. I wish that we had one of those great recruits this year while we still have Alexander. It's not that common to have a post player that tall that can run the court so well. But I'm not writing off Bone, Bowden, and Turner. I'm expecting a lot out of those 3 now that they're upperclassmen.
 
#28

walkenvol

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#28
I think Bone, Bowden, and Turner when they are playing at their best are all 3 close to outstanding. If the 3 of them have continued to improve this off season, then watch out!
 
#29

BigOrangeFanatic

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#29
It's as simple as this. We have to get good to great point guard play on a consistent basis for me to say we're a top 5 team. Can we play with any team in the country? Absolutley. Proved it last year. And to an extent even the year before, just didnt win as many games.

Do we have good to great point guard play? I really dont know. Bone has talent, but has struggled to finish around the rim. We will go as he goes when it comes tournament time. Until he shows otherwise, I've got us in the 10-15 range.
 
#30

Stoked

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#30
It's as simple as this. We have to get good to great point guard play on a consistent basis for me to say we're a top 5 team. Can we play with any team in the country? Absolutley. Proved it last year. And to an extent even the year before, just didnt win as many games.

Do we have good to great point guard play? I really dont know. Bone has talent, but has struggled to finish around the rim. We will go as he goes when it comes tournament time. Until he shows otherwise, I've got us in the 10-15 range.
We need him to play like he did vs Arkansas (both times) last year. Makes me wonder... Arkansas applies a lot of pressure and makes you play uptempo. I wonder if he is just a better player under pressure? He also scored his 3rd highest points of the season against Auburn, another team that presses.

Those 3 games

19.3 ppg
3.7 apg
3.3 rpg
1.3 turnovers
 
#32

VOLED

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#32
I met Melvin Watkins this summer (former A & M head coach, and current Arkansas asst coach) and he said we were a top 4 team. He has tremendous respect for Barnes and said we were well coached and going to be tough. I told him my concerns about our guards and he just laughed. I can see why he is such a tremendous recruiter as he is very personable and genuine.

Don't get me wrong, I think our guards can be very good, but can they be the difference makers that are needed to go far in the tourney? I hope so.
 
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#33

cncchris33

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#33
We need him to play like he did vs Arkansas (both times) last year. Makes me wonder... Arkansas applies a lot of pressure and makes you play uptempo. I wonder if he is just a better player under pressure? He also scored his 3rd highest points of the season against Auburn, another team that presses.

Those 3 games

19.3 ppg
3.7 apg
3.3 rpg
1.3 turnovers
I think for sure that Bone is more comfortable at a frenetic pace. The chaos and breakdowns allow him more easy opportunities at attacking the basket, which is his bread and butter. Much tougher to do that out of a set play.
 
#34

05_never_again

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#34
We are rock solid at the coaching position, this is for sure. He is capable of punching buttons at the right time regardless of how the season flows.
There are a ton of Texas fans who would disagree with you.

I really like Rick, but this season is going to have a different feel to it. Last year he and the team were really under the radar until late in the season. This year there are big expectations right out of the gate and we are going to receive every team's best every game. I think we'll have a good year, but probably not as good as a lot of the fans are hoping.
 
#35

IPleadInsanity

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#35
There are a ton of Texas fans who would disagree with you.

I really like Rick, but this season is going to have a different feel to it. Last year he and the team were really under the radar until late in the season. This year there are big expectations right out of the gate and we are going to receive every team's best every game. I think we'll have a good year, but probably not as good as a lot of the fans are hoping.
He started with nothing, sprinkled on magic dust and came up with 2 NBA players and assorted all star cast. The worst team he had at UT was well coached and competitive. I don't know what happened at Texas but guess after so many NCAA appearances they had a knee jerk reaction. Very lucky for us. Does more with less.
 
#36

05_never_again

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#36
He started with nothing, sprinkled on magic dust and came up with 2 NBA players and assorted all star cast. The worst team he had at UT was well coached and competitive. I don't know what happened at Texas but guess after so many NCAA appearances they had a knee jerk reaction. Very lucky for us. Does more with less.
What happened at Texas was a long track record of the opposite (doing less with more) and after a string of early tournament exits they fired him. It certainly wasn't a knee jerk reaction; the perception of him even during his peak years at Texas was that he underachieved relative to the talent he recruited. The last 4 years he was there they were really mediocre. 35-37 in Big 12 play, 1-2 in the tournament, and one of those years they missed the tournament and NIT.

Perhaps Tennessee is just a better fit for him. He isn't going to be able to routinely land Josiah James-type players here, but maybe he does better with the Williamses and Schofields of the world and coaches them up.
 
#37

IPleadInsanity

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#37
What happened at Texas was a long track record of the opposite (doing less with more) and after a string of early tournament exits they fired him. It certainly wasn't a knee jerk reaction; the perception of him even during his peak years at Texas was that he underachieved relative to the talent he recruited. The last 4 years he was there they were really mediocre. 35-37 in Big 12 play, 1-2 in the tournament, and one of those years they missed the tournament and NIT.

Perhaps Tennessee is just a better fit for him. He isn't going to be able to routinely land Josiah James-type players here, but maybe he does better with the Williamses and Schofields of the world and coaches them up.
He is exactly what we need at UT, like you said, a guy who can develop a team out of 3 star players. We will rarely get a 5 * player so its all thats left. Trying to compete for talent with the basketball schools is not a good game plan. They will chew you up and spit you out and it must be very expensive, just ask UK.
 
#38

05_never_again

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#38
He is exactly what we need at UT, like you said, a guy who can develop a team out of 3 star players. We will rarely get a 5 * player so its all thats left. Trying to compete for talent with the basketball schools is not a good game plan. They will chew you up and spit you out and it must be very expensive, just ask UK.
I think there is a little less of a microscope being the head basketball coach in Knoxville than in Austin. Although ever since Bruce Pearl fans expect more out of the basketball program than they did in the past. And honestly with football being so bad there might be a little more of a desire for basketball to be successful than in years past too.
 
#39
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#39
I think there is a little less of a microscope being the head basketball coach in Knoxville than in Austin. Although ever since Bruce Pearl fans expect more out of the basketball program than they did in the past. And honestly with football being so bad there might be a little more of a desire for basketball to be successful than in years past too.
In 2017-18 Texas only had 5 home games with attendance exceeding the lowest attended TN game at the TBA in 2016-17. Texas has less of a microscope?
 
#41

Alex10

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#41
I can be as big a homer as anyone. And, i'm not saying we won't be really good, but are we really a top 5 program? IMO 10-15 isn't out of the question. Even making a deep run into the elite 8 or final 4 isn't out of the question.

I just can't see us being sold as a top 5 team with all the elite programs out there. Guess it's just hard to wrap my head around us having a basketball team getting so much pre season respect. Not to mention, it'll give us something to look to should football season take a turn for the worse.
I agree I can’t imagine us being top 5 in basketball!! Then again I couldn’t imagine a bag of dildos being more formidable than our shameful football program. Strange times we live in :) I’m looking forward to the season!!!
 
#42

Alex10

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#42
There are a ton of Texas fans who would disagree with you.

I really like Rick, but this season is going to have a different feel to it. Last year he and the team were really under the radar until late in the season. This year there are big expectations right out of the gate and we are going to receive every team's best every game. I think we'll have a good year, but probably not as good as a lot of the fans are hoping.
Dang really? That’s to bad, as a Tennessee fan it would be no nice to have something.
 
#43

calban

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#43
Being a TN fan lately means you run to the stadium or arena hoping to see something spectacular but you carry a brown paper bag in your back pocket just in case. I'm very hopeful BBwise. Sorry. just can't watch that other game.
 
#44

05_never_again

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#44
In 2017-18 Texas only had 5 home games with attendance exceeding the lowest attended TN game at the TBA in 2016-17. Texas has less of a microscope?
No, I think Tennessee has less of a microscope with basketball than Texas does.

Both Texas and Tennessee are football schools but Texas really expects to be great at everything because they are Texas. Barnes recruited at a really high level, pulling guys like T.J. Ford, Kevin Durant, D.J. Augustin, LaMarcus Aldridge, etc., and thought that his returns with those guys would have been a little higher. The expectations got really high in the mid-2000s because of the players he had and don't discount the fact that they were really good at football at that time even adding to it. H

He only went to the Sweet 16 4 times in 17 years. That'd be great at Tennessee, but Texas wants more than that. I think Shaka is on more of a hot seat than they lead on.
 
#45

Stoked

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#45
No, I think Tennessee has less of a microscope with basketball than Texas does.

Both Texas and Tennessee are football schools but Texas really expects to be great at everything because they are Texas. Barnes recruited at a really high level, pulling guys like T.J. Ford, Kevin Durant, D.J. Augustin, LaMarcus Aldridge, etc., and thought that his returns with those guys would have been a little higher. The expectations got really high in the mid-2000s because of the players he had and don't discount the fact that they were really good at football at that time even adding to it. H

He only went to the Sweet 16 4 times in 17 years. That'd be great at Tennessee, but Texas wants more than that. I think Shaka is on more of a hot seat than they lead on.
I'm honestly shocked at how underwhelming Shaka has been. He was the hottest name for every open coaching position for the longest time. You know Texas fans have to feel all kinds of bad emotions seeing that CRB has the real UT as a top 10 team, while they have a coach entering his 4th year as .500 coach and on the hot seat. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
 
#46

05_never_again

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#46
I'm honestly shocked at how underwhelming Shaka has been. He was the hottest name for every open coaching position for the longest time. You know Texas fans have to feel all kinds of bad emotions seeing that CRB has the real UT as a top 10 team, while they have a coach entering his 4th year as .500 coach and on the hot seat. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.
Yep. I'd love to hear a Texas fan's take on Rick now. They wanted Rick gone, and frankly I can see why. He was replaced with undeniably the hottest name available at the time and it was universally thought of as a great hire.

I don't follow CBB, or Texas BB, enough to know exactly what's happening, but I'm stunned at how underwhelming they've been too. His recruiting classes have been ranked 18, 6, 6, 8. His 2016 and 2017 classes were the best in the Big 12, even better than Kansas, so I'm assuming recruiting isn't the problem. His upcoming class for 2019 is ranked 55 with only one player signed at the moment and is starting to make some people nervous. He had a supposedly incredible rim protector and rebounder in Mo Bamba last year, eventual lottery pick, but if you look at their schedule last year and who they beat/lost to it is completely pedestrian.

I also assumed he was a really good Xs and Os coach because at VCU he did a lot guys who weren't all that highly recruited, although I think his tenure at VCU was also somewhat overrated. He made a lot of hay out of that one Final Four run in 2011. All the other years they were bounced in the first or second round.
 
#47
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#47
No, I think Tennessee has less of a microscope with basketball than Texas does.

Both Texas and Tennessee are football schools but Texas really expects to be great at everything because they are Texas. Barnes recruited at a really high level, pulling guys like T.J. Ford, Kevin Durant, D.J. Augustin, LaMarcus Aldridge, etc., and thought that his returns with those guys would have been a little higher. The expectations got really high in the mid-2000s because of the players he had and don't discount the fact that they were really good at football at that time even adding to it. H

He only went to the Sweet 16 4 times in 17 years. That'd be great at Tennessee, but Texas wants more than that. I think Shaka is on more of a hot seat than they lead on.
TN built the largest basketball gym in the country. TN fans ran off 3 coaches immediately after making the NCAAT, the 3rd with 30,000 entries on an on-line petition. Texas is historically behind 4 other teams in their own conference and probably more than that if the Barnes era is excluded. TN's attendance exceeds Texas' in a less populated area. Texas is not a basketball school. TN, despite a 25 year run of mediocrity, is a basketball school.
 
#48

05_never_again

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#48
TN built the largest basketball gym in the country. TN fans ran off 3 coaches immediately after making the NCAAT, the 3rd with 30,000 entries on an on-line petition. Texas is historically behind 4 other teams in their own conference and probably more than that if the Barnes era is excluded. TN's attendance exceeds Texas' in a less populated area. Texas is not a basketball school. TN, despite a 25 year run of mediocrity, is a basketball school.
Texas is behind 4 other teams in their conference because the Big 12 historically has been a better basketball conference than the SEC has. Tennessee's basketball expectations have increased quite a bit since the late 2000s because of Bruce Pearl and because football has been so bad (we want something to get excited about). I think Texas has had some expectations over a longer period of time than that; they expected Barnes in particular to consistently be in at least the Sweet 16, which he was in the early-to-mid 2000s, not so much after that. Before Pearl arrived, the last time people really gave a rip about Tennessee basketball was during the Ernie and Bernie show. The level of interest in the program is not consistently high over long periods of time. Contrast this with football, which has been God-awful for a decade and not nationally relevant in nearly 20 years yet still moves the needle.

Neither Tennessee or Texas is a basketball school. It is not thought of as superior to or more important than the football program at either school. In basketball I'm not really sure attendance or max capacity of the facility is the best proxy for how "big" the program is. Duke plays in a glorified high school gym that seats 9,314. Over two TBAs could fit inside it. Does that mean Duke isn't a basketball school?
 
#49
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#49
Texas is behind 4 other teams in their conference because the Big 12 historically has been a better basketball conference than the SEC has. Tennessee's basketball expectations have increased quite a bit since the late 2000s because of Bruce Pearl and because football has been so bad (we want something to get excited about). I think Texas has had some expectations over a longer period of time than that; they expected Barnes in particular to consistently be in at least the Sweet 16, which he was in the early-to-mid 2000s, not so much after that. Before Pearl arrived, the last time people really gave a rip about Tennessee basketball was during the Ernie and Bernie show. The level of interest in the program is not consistently high over long periods of time. Contrast this with football, which has been God-awful for a decade and not nationally relevant in nearly 20 years yet still moves the needle.

Neither Tennessee or Texas is a basketball school. It is not thought of as superior to or more important than the football program at either school. In basketball I'm not really sure attendance or max capacity of the facility is the best proxy for how "big" the program is. Duke plays in a glorified high school gym that seats 9,314. Over two TBAs could fit inside it. Does that mean Duke isn't a basketball school?
The Big 12 hasn't even been in existence for 25 years yet. Actually, from the Big 8 you can add Missouri and OK State as having a better basketball history than Texas. I was only thinking of Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Oklahoma as better programs. The SWC was a horrible basketball conference. TN was #2 to KY, the winningest program in college basketball, for a long time before Dickey's neglect allowed them to slip. The NCAAT only took 1 team per conference until the mid 1970s. If KY was in the SWC then the rest of those schools may have never even been invited.

KY is the winningest team in college basketball. Which school has more wins than any other against them?

The SEC doesn't take a back seat to any conference not named the ACC.

I was using the attendance to confirm that Texas is not under more of a microscope than TN, not to say TN is more of a basketball school than Duke.
 
#50

05_never_again

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#50
The Big 12 hasn't even been in existence for 25 years yet. Actually, from the Big 8 you can add Missouri and OK State as having a better basketball history than Texas. I was only thinking of Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Oklahoma as better programs. The SWC was a horrible basketball conference. TN was #2 to KY, the winningest program in college basketball, for a long time before Dickey's neglect allowed them to slip. The NCAAT only took 1 team per conference until the mid 1980s. If KY was in the SWC then the rest of those schools may have never even been invited.

KY is the winningest team in college basketball. Which school has more wins than any other against them?

The SEC doesn't take a back seat to any conference not named the ACC.
That's a function of playing them at least once a year. Even if you are awful against them historically (which we are), you'll rack up more wins than other schools purely because you play them often.

There's a little bit of revisionist history about the SEC and Tennessee basketball. Over in the football forum people are saying Tennessee is a dead program, aren't a traditional power, and perhaps we should accept 7 wins being a great season. Tennessee basketball and in particular the entire SEC have been much better at basketball over the last decade or so, and there's a tendency to think Tennessee and the SEC have some incredible basketball tradition that surpasses other schools and conferences.

People are prisoners of the moment, and "the moment" can be a long period of time like 10 years if you are talking about a 50 or 70 year-long period of time. Over the history of college basketball, the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, and Pac 12 are in front of the SEC. There isn't really an SEC school other than Kentucky that has consistently been good for a long period of time. Programs like Arkansas, Florida, and LSU have been successful, but that success is pretty fleeting.

I'll give you that the Big Ten is overrated as a basketball conference - teams like Iowa, Minnesota, Northwestern, and Penn St are totally anonymous - but there's more past success there than in the SEC. Penn St's total lack of success at basketball is probably the most baffling. I get they are a football school, but so is Michigan. Why aren't they better?
 

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