Are We Improving Under Butch?

[MWAVolfan]

What if we beat Vandy and then lose our bowl game to finish with the same record as last year and then also have a recruiting class outside the top 10 also like last year. Is that progress? Does beating Florida cout even though they still win the division and we lost to a team we have no business losing to?

Just curious.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Butch worshipers are just tickled the team is just better than Dooleys. CBJ has done miracles in their sight.
For the rest of us..he will work miracles when he gets to ATL and contend in SECCs and hopefully match or do better than 95-98 Vols. Fans have different standards

I don't know that he's done anything miraculous. I do know he has the program improving more consistently than any coach in a decade or more. The team is accomplishing things that haven't been done here in 12-15 years.

The 95-98 Vols? . .

Coach Fulmer took over in 1992. The next 4 years he posted records of 4-0 (only coached 4 games in '92), 10-2 in '93, 8-4 in '94, and 11-1 in '95. He finished 2nd in the SEC East each of those years, except '92 - 3rd.

In 1996 he also finished 2nd in the SEC East. That was in his 5th year (or 4th full year) as head coach.

In his 6th and 7th year he won the SEC East.

How can anyone demand to see the same results produced by Fulmer in his 6th and 7th year if no one is allowed to be coach for more than 3-4 years?

 

[SayNoToJorts]

Winning the east means you go to Atlanta. I may be confused but I coulda swore Florida is going to atlanta for the second straight year instead of us.

Also, back to back years of 5-3 SEC records isn't improvement.

Many factors play into who wins divisions. But if you want to look at football cut and dry, like how my girlfriend looks at it as simply who wins the East and who doesn't, then more power to you. Most of us will dive a little deeper than that.

And yes our SEC record will be 5-3. If you want to only count SEC games that is cool. Keep spinning the data to your liking. Again, we will likely be the 2nd highest ranked team in the SEC going into bowls. Tell me when was the last time we went to the Sugar Bowl? Must have been last year seeing as how we are on a plateau.

 

[screenthis]

We're improving because we couldn't get any worse under Dooley. But this year was the best we can expect under butch. Things won't improve from here. Recruiting isn't improving. Florida, Georgia will be better moving forward.

Who brought out all these 'the sky is falling' posters? Step back from that ledge. We're doing about as well as could be expected at this stage. I'll count 9 and 10 win seasons as a success. Will there be years when we take a step back? Very likely. It's how college football works for most teams not called Alabama. But, the in-state talent is getting better, Butch is likely to end the recruiting year strong, and I wouldn't be surprised if we get a new OC. All in all, no sign that we've plateaued.

 

[MWAVolfan]

I'm sorry, but context does matter. Simple win loss record doesn't mean progress was made. Progress is about taking full advantage of the options given.

 

[TucsonVol]

Coach Jones is a nice guy but cannot coach or recruit at the highest level.

 

[VolnJC]

I don't know that he's done anything miraculous. I do know he has the program improving more consistently than any coach in a decade or more. The team is accomplishing things that haven't been done here in 12-15 years.

The 95-98 Vols? . .

Coach Fulmer took over in 1992. The next 4 years he posted records of 4-0 (only coached 4 games in '92), 10-2 in '93, 8-4 in '94, and 11-1 in '95. He finished 2nd in the SEC East each of those years, except '92 - 3rd.

In 1996 he also finished 2nd in the SEC East. That was in his 5th year (or 4th full year) as head coach.

In his 6th and 7th year he won the SEC East.

How can anyone demand to see the same results produced by Fulmer in his 6th and 7th year if no one is allowed to be coach for more than 3-4 years?

 

[Enki_Amenra]

I'm sorry, but context does matter. Simple win loss record doesn't mean progress was made. Progress is about taking full advantage of the options given.

This is asinine. I'll bet no one would have cared much about how we could get to 9-10 wins when we were posting 5-7 records.

 

[BeardedVol]

Many factors play into who wins divisions. But if you want to look at football cut and dry, like how my girlfriend looks at it as simply who wins the East and who doesn't, then more power to you. Most of us will dive a little deeper than that.

And yes our SEC record will be 5-3. If you want to only count SEC games that is cool. Keep spinning the data to your liking. Again, we will likely be the 2nd highest ranked team in the SEC going into bowls. Tell me when was the last time we went to the Sugar Bowl? Must have been last year seeing as how we are on a plateau.

Since when did become automatic shoe-ins for the Sugar Bowl? Auburn is going to have the same conference record as us, having lost to A&M, GA, and Alabama. If they play Alabama tight in the Iron Bowl, and having their non-conf loss being to playoff contender Clemson, they or Florida may get the nod as long as they don't get utterly blown out by Alabama.

 

[JMSqb11]

Many factors play into who wins divisions. But if you want to look at football cut and dry, like how my girlfriend looks at it as simply who wins the East and who doesn't, then more power to you. Most of us will dive a little deeper than that.

And yes our SEC record will be 5-3. If you want to only count SEC games that is cool. Keep spinning the data to your liking. Again, we will likely be the 2nd highest ranked team in the SEC going into bowls. Tell me when was the last time we went to the Sugar Bowl? Must have been last year seeing as how we are on a plateau.

Obviously from the sky, we have improved in win total. But the when you "dive into things" like you say, this should be the second year in a row that we SHOULD be an 11-1 regular season team with a chance to win the SEC and go to the playoff. But I guess your girlfriend doesn't understand the context.

Also, we have to have 3 other teams lose for us to go to the Sugar Bowl. Please tell me how we earned the Sugar Bowl if we go.

 

[SayNoToJorts]

Since when did become automatic shoe-ins for the Sugar Bowl? Auburn is going to have the same conference record as us, having lost to A&M, GA, and Alabama. If they play Alabama tight in the Iron Bowl, and having their non-conf loss being to playoff contender Clemson, they or Florida may get the nod as long as they don't get utterly blown out by Alabama.

It is not a given. Auburn will have 4 losses and will be unranked with a loss to Alabama. Historically the highest ranked SEC team goes. Florida would be our main competition but they have a great chance of falling below us with a loss to Bama and certainly with a loss to FSU. We also have to take care of Vandy.

Maybe I should have said when was the last time that there was a decent chance that we would be in the Sugar Bowl.

 

[SayNoToJorts]

Obviously from the sky, we have improved in win total. But the when you "dive into things" like you say, this should be the second year in a row that we SHOULD be an 11-1 regular season team with a chance to win the SEC and go to the playoff. But I guess your girlfriend doesn't understand the context.

Also, we have to have 3 other teams lose for us to go to the Sugar Bowl. Please tell me how we earned the Sugar Bowl if we go.

"Second year in a row that we SHOULD be 11-1"

How is that diving deep? Just more vague statements and phrases that we have all heard a hundred times from Negavols. Why should we have been 11-1? Was there some sort of vote that I missed on what we should have been? I know last year we were better than 2014. And this year we are currently better than we were in 2015.

The Sugar Bowl is not a definite of course. Yes some teams have to lose. Maybe we don't beat Vandy. Maybe Auby beats Bama. Maybe Florida beats them. If the likely scenarios play out, we will be in the Sugar bowl. We haven't been able to say that in a long time, and that is improvement

 

[JMSqb11]

"Second year in a row that we SHOULD be 11-1"

How is that diving deep? Just more vague statements and phrases that we have all heard a hundred times from Negavols. Why should we have been 11-1? Was there some sort of vote that I missed on what we should have been? I know last year we were better than 2014. And this year we are currently better than we were in 2015.

The Sugar Bowl is not a definite of course. Yes some teams have to lose. Maybe we don't beat Vandy. Maybe Auby beats Bama. Maybe Florida beats them. If the likely scenarios play out, we will be in the Sugar bowl. We haven't been able to say that in a long time, and that is improvement

Well for starters, We blew 4th quarter leads in 3 games last year that we should have won. That, by definition, makes us 11-1. This year, coaching mistakes caused us to lose two games and we were simply outmatched vs Bama. By definition, we should be 11-1 after next week. I understand you must be Butch'a biggest fan but the 90% of the fan base agrees that he underperformed this year and last year. Especially since he set the expectations for the playoff this year.

 

[SayNoToJorts]

Well for starters, We blew 4th quarter leads in 3 games last year that we should have won. That, by definition, makes us 11-1. This year, coaching mistakes caused us to lose two games and we were simply outmatched vs Bama. By definition, we should be 11-1 after next week. I understand you must be Butch'a biggest fan but the 90% of the fan base agrees that he underperformed this year and last year. Especially since he set the expectations for the playoff this year.

CBJ caused the fumbles in the A&M game?

 

[JMSqb11]

CBJ caused the fumbles in the A&M game?

Lack of coaching hurt us more than turnovers did that game. We had two red zone fumbles that we tried to scoop up and keep running. Every sane coach teaches players, especially on offense, to fall on the ball. Instead, we try to scoop and score with 5 A&M players around us. The play calling in the first OT was malpractice. Literally went against everything we did in the 4th quarter to tie it up. Then the first play call of OT was inexcusable. Butch literally went away from everything successful in OT.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

Well for starters, We blew 4th quarter leads in 3 games last year that we should have won. That, by definition, makes us 11-1. This year, coaching mistakes caused us to lose two games and we were simply outmatched vs Bama. By definition, we should be 11-1 after next week. I understand you must be Butch'a biggest fan but the 90% of the fan base agrees that he underperformed this year and last year. Especially since he set the expectations for the playoff this year.

90% of the fan base agrees that he under-performed?

Any coach in the country would say the ultimate goal is a National Title. I'd guess you'd be complaining if he didn't claim high-expectations too.

 

[JMSqb11]

90% of the fan base agrees that he under-performed?

Any coach in the country would say the ultimate goal is a National Title. I'd guess you'd be complaining if he didn't claim high-expectations too.

He was on record saying 2016 was the year to be in Tampa. Players said the same. Everyone agreed that we peaked a year early last year. Still doesn't excuse the fact we underperformed given the circumstances last year.

 

[Enki_Amenra]

He was on record saying 2016 was the year to be in Tampa. Players said the same. Everyone agreed that we peaked a year early last year. Still doesn't excuse the fact we underperformed given the circumstances last year.

I know he said they embrace high expectations, but I didn't get to see where he said that 2016 was the year for Tampa. Can you share a link?

I'm just not sure how anyone can know we under-performed. How can you know we weren't over-performing?

 

[SayNoToJorts]

Lack of coaching hurt us more than turnovers did that game. We had two red zone fumbles that we tried to scoop up and keep running. Every sane coach teaches players, especially on offense, to fall on the ball. Instead, we try to scoop and score with 5 A&M players around us. The play calling in the first OT was malpractice. Literally went against everything we did in the 4th quarter to tie it up. Then the first play call of OT was inexcusable. Butch literally went away from everything successful in OT.

So CBJ is teaching offensive players not to fall on fumbles? First I have heard of that.

Also, the next time our coach dials up 700 yds of total offense, will someone please ask him why he didn't check with JMSqb11 first before his play calls?

 

[JMSqb11]

I know he said they embrace high expectations, but I didn't get to see where he said that 2016 was the year for Tampa. Can you share a link?

I'm just not sure how anyone can know we under-performed. How can you know we weren't over-performing?

Look at all the players in post game pressed after Outback bowl. They said Tampa next year and Butch endorsed it.

 

[JMSqb11]

So CBJ is teaching offensive players not to fall on fumbles? First I have heard of that.

Also, the next time our coach dials up 700 yds of total offense, will someone please ask him why he didn't check with JMSqb11 first before his play calls?

Why would a 4 year starting QB try to scoop and run with 5 defenders around him?? That is coaching plain and simple.

We got all of our yards on YAC plays. Yet we throw on first play down the field in double coverage. Got it.

 

[YankeeVol]

According to the chart, yes.

Hey man, Tennessee hasn't won 8 games in a long time. We hadn't been to 3 straight bowls in forever! That's all that matters, being better than we were before him (at least to Lyle). The history before that doesnt matter.

(Most of that is sarcasm)

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

Don't sleep on losing Dobbs like it's nothing.

You have a QB that can score from any place on the field with his arm or his legs and those don't grow on trees. Teams don't just have QB's who have 80 yard TD runs

Why don't people understand this?

Dobbs is responsible for a GAZILLION touchdowns.

A GAZILLION.

I think we will be doing well to have an underclassman QB who can produce half-a-gazillion touchdowns.

This is the most talented roster Butch will field at Tennessee. I believe it actually compares with some of Fulmer's old rosters. For whatever reason, it wasn't good enough to back into the SECCG during the worst era of SECE football since before WWII.

 

[mandy1122]

Yes we are improving! :rock:

 

[JMSqb11]

Why don't people understand this?

Dobbs is responsible for a GAZILLION touchdowns.

A GAZILLION.

I think we will be doing well to have an underclassman QB who can produce half-a-gazillion touchdowns.

This is the most talented roster Butch will field at Tennessee. I believe it actually compares with some of Fulmer's old rosters. For whatever reason, it wasn't good enough to back into the SECCG during the worst era of SECE football since before WWII.

Here is the frustration with Dobbs. He can no doubt have a laser arm and put the ball whereever he wants. But then he has games (that just happened to be against highly ranked teams) where he can't hold onto the ball or throw accurate passes. The science behind his 3.5 years of stats are truly mesmerizing. However, I think his big game record will be one thing that keeps him from being the second best all time QB here.