Are there really 51 Power 5 coaches better than Butch?

[NashVol11]

Nah, Florida was the monkey on our back. Until it wasn't. Just go back and read the threads after the 2015 season.

NOW it becomes Bama. Because, you know, Butch & Co broke the Florida streak. Unlike what Harbaugh has done so far abainst Ohio State.

OSU has been the best team in that conference and is their biggest rival. Alabama is the best team in this conference and is our biggest rival.

Seems pretty straightforward, and would take some strange mental gymnastics to equalize 8-4 Florida with playoff contender Ohio State...but people say that's "unbiased," so I guess I should just take their word for it

 

[horde of llamas]

After everything that has been stated on this platform, going for 1 instead of 2 in the Florida game is all that we need to know about CBJ's on field coaching abilities.

 

[KBVol]

KB, I'm not buying Harbaugh yet. He's a good coach, don't get me wrong. Not sure he's close to the top 10 in college football, as many make him out to be.

Sure, he's 20-6 over the past two seasons. Butch is 18-8, which isn't that much worse, but is being lambasted as among the bottom 15 of all Power 5 conference coaches, in the OP article and by several in this thread.

20-6 versus 18-8. But Vandy and USCe, you say. Sure, that's valid. But hold on, what about Michigan losing to Iowa (8-5 Iowa, not the ranked team of the year prior)? Think that didn't steam the Michigan fans' nuts just as much as us losing the two we shouldn't have?

Yeah, just not at all sold on Harbaugh. Think he's 40% good coach and 60% hype. A bridesmaid, but never the bride.

What more does this guy need to do? Does it take winning a national title and a Super Bowl. Is he not a good coach until he does what virtually no other coach does or has done? I honestly don't understand how one can be not at all sold on the guy....don't have to like him, but the guy has proven he's really good....

The guy turned around both San Diego and Stanford at the college level.......then went to the NFL and took a bad franchise to the Super Bowl.......then comes back to college and takes a program that was a combined 12-13 the two previous seasons before he got there and immediately goes 20-6 his first two seasons.

Butch was 12-13 his FIRST 2 SEASONS at Tennessee....Harbaugh is 20-6....isn't that more apples to apples rather than comparing Jones' 3rd and 4th seasons to Harbsugh's 1st and 2nd?

As far as comparing our SCar and Vandy losses, which were 100% unforgivable and unacceptable, especially given how bad those teams were and what was on the line......Iowa was one year removed from a 12-2 season and top 10 finish when they beat Michigan by 1 point. 8-5 last year wasn't great, but it beats 6-7 every time.

I'm not ready to say he's on Saban and Meyer level at the college level, he (like every other coach on the planet) obviously has much more to prove and do before he can be considered for what is essentially an elite two-man category. But when you take an honest look at his full resume, I'm comfortable calling him a great football coach.

As far as your marriage analogy.....if nothing else, at least he's been to the altar....Jones can't get an invite to the wedding.

 

[chargervol]

You said Harbaugh's top 10 finish didn't count, because he beat average teams and didn't beat OSU.

So what if Butch earned a top 10 finish by beating average teams but not beating Alabama? Would that count? I mean, I asked you already, but you don't seem to want to answer. I think I know why

Then why didn't quote me?

Oh, I know why. Because you're fos.
I said I didn't count making the top 10 in B1G automatically placing you in the "Great tier".

I'll discuss Jones yet again, since reading my actual posts doesn't interest you.

AS I'VE ALREADY SAID, no, I will not put Jones into the great tier for beating average teams.
I have never, you can't find a post of me doing so, nor will I ever.

Now for the last time, either actually quote me so you can prove your not lying though those flapping lips (fingers in this case) or just stop.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Harbaugh had two quality wins in 2016: Wisconsin and Penn State.
Butch had four quality wins in 2016: Va Tech, Florida, Georgia, and Nebraska.

Harbaugh had one quality win in 2015: Northwestern (plus we'll give him 0.5 more for a bowl win against a Florida squad whose wheels were coming completely off at the end of the year).
Butch had two quality wins in 2015: Georgia, and Northwestern.

If you want to compare schedule difficulties, that's how to do it.

p.s. They both had unexpected losses to lesser teams, we know that. So this looks at their quality wins instead.

 

[jakez4ut]

OSU has been the best team in that conference and is their biggest rival. Alabama is the best team in this conference and is our biggest rival.

Seems pretty straightforward, and would take some strange mental gymnastics to equalize 8-4 Florida with playoff contender Ohio State...but people say that's "unbiased," so I guess I should just take their word for it

Goal post moving. Beating Florida was, is, will be the game that TN fans clamor for. Yes bama is a rival, historically our biggest.

But make no mistake, beating Florida was #1 on the to do list. A) it's been an achievable goal each of the past 3 seasons b) it's step 1 if you're going to contend for the division c) beating bama any of the last 4 years wasn't expected, and would most certainly be considered winning a game you're not really supposed to.

To say, now, "well he hasn't beaten bama" doesn't hold water. That's the only team we've played each year that most everyone would say is an L going in.

 

[NashVol11]

Butch goes 5-7 in year one, that's okay. As long as he beats 8-4 Florida, he's successful.

Harbaugh goes 9-3 in year one, that's not so good, Butch's year 3 was worse, but only a little worse, so Harbaugh isn't that impressive. His standard for success is his performance against a 12-1 playoff team.

^ "Unbiased"

 

[NashVol11]

Okay, just curious. So mostly off the past not actually what he's done at Michigan.
I'm in no way saying he won't get it done there, just that he hasn't so far. I can't count getting ranked inside the top 10.
How many of the Big Ten teams that we absolutely destroyed have been highly ranked. Basically you join the Big and win half your games, you're ranked.

So top 10 doesn't count as "getting it done" nor "very good." I'm sure you would treat Butch the same way.

 

[chargervol]

Harbaugh had two quality wins in 2016: Wisconsin and Penn State.
Butch had four quality wins in 2016: Va Tech, Florida, Georgia, and Nebraska.

Harbaugh had one quality win in 2015: Northwestern (plus we'll give him 0.5 more for a bowl win against a Florida squad whose wheels were coming completely off at the end of the year).
Butch had two quality wins in 2015: Georgia, and Northwestern.

If you want to compare schedule difficulties, that's how to do it.

p.s. They both had unexpected losses to lesser teams, we know that. So this looks at their quality wins instead.

OMG JP...
How could you say Harbaugh has never won a game and that Jones is 10 times better???
Or that the Sec is 1000 times better?

What do you mean that's not what you said? But it would make my point so much better if you actually had!
Therefore, we're just going to post like that is what you said.


Couldn't resist

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Heh, Nash, you doing good, man. You're having at least a 2-on-1 and even ballooning a bit into a 3-on-1, conversation, and you're keeping it all moving. Mad props to you.

At the end of the day, we all want the Vols to win it all. Win everything. Just kick all dey azz. And we don't give an owl fart about how Michigan does.

So at least we all have those things in common. You doing good, Nash.

Go Vols!

 

[VFL-82-JP]

OMG JP...
How could you say Harbaugh has never won a game and that Jones is 10 times better???
Or that the Sec is 1000 times better?

What do you mean that's not what you said? But it would make my point so much better if you actually had!
Therefore, we're just going to post like that is what you said.


Couldn't resist

Haha, Charger, you are SALTY now, man!

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

In Year 2, Michigan was one atrocious 4th down spot away from winning in Columbus against OSU and making the playoff.

Im still ticked since I had Michigan on the moneyline and I got hosed.

 

[NashVol11]

Goal post moving. Beating Florida was, is, will be the game that TN fans clamor for. Yes bama is a rival, historically our biggest.

But make no mistake, beating Florida was #1 on the to do list. A) it's been an achievable goal each of the past 3 seasons b) it's step 1 if you're going to contend for the division c) beating bama any of the last 4 years wasn't expected, and would most certainly be considered winning a game you're not really supposed to.

To say, now, "well he hasn't beaten bama" doesn't hold water. That's the only team we've played each year that most everyone would say is an L going in.

I don't care what the to-do list says, if you measure one guy against an 8-4 team and another guy against a 12-1 team, you are not being consistent, or you have an incredibly low opinion of Tennessee.

When I say "you" I don't mean you specifically

 

[chargervol]

So top 10 doesn't count as "getting it done" nor "very good." I'm sure you would treat Butch the same way.

Hey, you left out the part where I said I would put Jones in the "very good" category for beating those teams.
Remember? That was kind of your point? So I'll just wait. again.

 

[NashVol11]

Harbaugh had two quality wins in 2016: Wisconsin and Penn State.
Butch had four quality wins in 2016: Va Tech, Florida, Georgia, and Nebraska.

Harbaugh had one quality win in 2015: Northwestern (plus we'll give him 0.5 more for a bowl win against a Florida squad whose wheels were coming completely off at the end of the year).
Butch had two quality wins in 2015: Georgia, and Northwestern.

If you want to compare schedule difficulties, that's how to do it.

p.s. They both had unexpected losses to lesser teams, we know that. So this looks at their quality wins instead.

You're comparing year one to year three. Are those equivalent now? Seems like I heard a whole bunch of the opposite from these "unbiased" posters during Butch's year one

 

[NashVol11]

Hey, you left out the part where I said I would put Jones in the "very good" category for beating those teams.
Remember? That was kind of your point? So I'll just wait. again.

Your position is you wouldn't, which is a position that no one believes, which is "kind of my point."

 

[chargervol]

Let's just condense this multitude of posts into one.

I don't put Harbaugh into the upper tier of coaching for beating those Big Ten teams. I also would not put Jones into the upper tier for beating those same teams.
As a matter of fact, he has beaten those teams and I don't put him there. I do not care where they rank as for that, it still wouldn't make him a great coach. I will put either of them into the great coach category for actually beating other great teams.

This is what I actually said. Nothing about the SEC vs The Big Ten, Jones is better than Harbaugh or that I had a selfie with Bigfoot.

It's what I said from the beginning, and I still say the same. Everything else was added because the person I'm debating with, could find nothing wrong with my actual statements.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

You're comparing year one to year three. Are those equivalent now? Seems like I heard a whole bunch of the opposite from these "unbiased" posters during Butch's year one

I'm comparing 2016 to 2016, and 2015 to 2015.

Since the coaches didn't inherit teams at the same points (esp. the difference in quality of their rosters), I don't feel the need to compare them based on their personal timelines.

Where are they today? Looks to me like Butch did somewhat better (4 quality wins to 2 quality wins) AND slightly worse (2 inexcusable losses to 1 inexcusable loss) than Harbaugh last year.

That's how it looks to me, objectively speaking.

 

[chargervol]

Your position is you wouldn't, which is a position that no one believes, which is "kind of my point."

So despite real posts (in this very thread) where I question Jones ability to get it done, you have decided how I really feel and all your responses are based off of your imaginary feelings?

Lol. Ok.

Good talk.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Let's just condense this multitude of posts into one.

I don't put Harbaugh into the upper tier of coaching for beating those Big Ten teams. I also would not put Jones into the upper tier for beating those same teams.
As a matter of fact, he has beaten those teams and I don't put him there. I do not care where they rank as for that, it still wouldn't make him a great coach. I will put either of them into the great coach category for actually beating other great teams.

This is what I actually said. Nothing about the SEC vs The Big Ten, Jones is better than Harbaugh or that I had a selfie with Bigfoot.

It's what I said from the beginning, and I still say the same. Everything else was added because the person I'm debating with, could find nothing wrong with my actual statements.

This just in: Charger's selfie with Bigfoot:

 

[NashVol11]

I don't put Harbaugh into the upper tier of coaching for beating those Big Ten teams. I also would not put Jones into the upper tier for beating those same teams.

So what if Butch earned a top 10 finish by beating up on SEC teams other than Alabama? Would that count?

.

 

[chargervol]

This just in: Charger's selfie with Bigfoot:

Glad you saved a copy, we bout to get paid brother!

 

[NashVol11]

I'm comparing 2016 to 2016, and 2015 to 2015.

Since the coaches didn't inherit teams at the same points (esp. the difference in quality of their rosters), I don't feel the need to compare them based on their personal timelines.

Where are they today? Looks to me like Butch did somewhat better (4 quality wins to 2 quality wins) AND slightly worse (2 inexcusable losses to 1 inexcusable loss) than Harbaugh last year.

That's how it looks to me, objectively speaking.

What you don't acknowledge is that that is inherently not objective. It's certainly not any more objective than comparing year one to year one and year two to year two. It's a subjective choice reflecting personal opinion

 

[Doberman]

Let's settle this.

Who would swap Harbaugh for Jones today, straight up?

I'll count me as one. Emphatically.

 

[chargervol]

.

Ummm, you see that I said I wouldn't and have always said that and never suggested otherwise?

Btw, I honestly gave you a like for making 1 of the most incoherent points I've ever seen.

Last time.
I don't put Harbaugh into the great tier for those wins and I don't put Butch into the great category for beating them either.

Seriously, I'm completely lost at this point as to what's confusing you?