Are there really 51 Power 5 coaches better than Butch?

#78
#78
KBVol said:
GOOD and pitiful in the same season.....don't forget a loss to a very average TAM team due to 7 turnovers and the second worst loss to Bama in school history. We essentially played one great half of championship level football all season long.
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Beating fl was big. Imagine the rest of the season playing out the way it did, AND getting hammered at home by Florida...

Either way though. The season was what it was, and this ranking means something more to anyone that values the losses more than the wins.

I don't agree with the "rank " , but I don't care enough to split hairs over it either.
 
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#79
#79
chargervol said:
If he earned it by beating the big 10 teams that he beats in bowls every year?
What do you say when we beat those teams?

Yeah, that's what I thought.
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He beat #1 Ohio State in 2010 and 4 ranked teams in 2011. Butch has done nothing on that level.

You're telling me Butch is better because Vandy is better than Iowa? Seriously?
 
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#80
#80
volfan102455 said:
It wouldn't matter if he goes 15-0 next year, some would still find something to complain about and would say Tennessee didn't win the other team lost.
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And conversely, Butch could apparently go 2-10 and still have some on here saying he's better than a coach that's been to 3 Rose Bowls.
 
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#81
#81
BigOrangeMojo said:
There are 65 Power 5 schools. There are ONLY 12 that have won 9+ games the last two years (Clemson, FSU, Utah, UF, Tennessee, Ohio St, Michigan, WI, Bama, Oklahoma, Ok State, Stanford). I'm not saying this stat should completely overshadow the Game/Program/PR management issues that have been well documented but it should prove that 52 is too low.
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THANK YOU! I'm not a Butch homer, but some of the remote support this is getting here that ranking is correct is laughable. To answer the obligatory... "yes I know we lost two games we shouldn't have LY", and I'm as upset about as anyone, However, he's making what he thinks is right staff moves (which MANY coaches won't do), he is recruiting well, no classroom or off field drama to speak of...and only Bama and UF are on the above list. If he flames out, at least will be on his terms. How about some support for our coach...or at least objectivity? Go Vols!!!!
 
#82
#82
chargervol said:
They're giving those coaches credit and ignoring their losses. But if that coach was our coach, they would be raising hell about those same losses.
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Brother, I agree with you 100%. More, if possible. The grass is greener paradox, applied to coaches.
 
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#83
#83
NashVol11 said:
He beat #1 Ohio State in 2010 and 4 ranked teams in 2011. Butch has done nothing on that level.

You're telling me Butch is better because Vandy is better than Iowa? Seriously?
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I never said Butch was better?
I asked why the other guy had him in the great tier?

Let me just go ahead and save you some time. That's twice you've quoted me and twice completely made up S*** about what I said.
If you want to debate something with me, then respond to what I actually said.

And a tip, if you do have to make something up to prove your point, it's time to rethink your point.
 
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#85
#85
chargervol said:
I never said Butch was better?
I asked why the other guy had him in the great tier?

Let me just go ahead and save you some time. That's twice you've quoted me and twice completely made up S*** about what I said.
If you want to debate something with me, then respond to what I actually said.

And a tip, if you do have to make something up to prove your point, it's time to rethink your point.
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I was thinking about Bielema. I forgot that you were trying to convince me that Butch finishing in the Top 10 would mean nothing to you.

No one believes that, but please continue
 
#86
#86
VFL-82-JP said:
Brother, I agree with you 100%. More, if possible. The grass is greener paradox, applied to coaches.
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I knew you understood JP, you always have a level head.
Jones has done nothing so far to be put in with the upper tier. But the posters on here suggesting that his low ranking is a given, are doing so because they want UT to win and our losses sting more.

They are judging the other coaches off of statistics, and judging Jones off of emotion. How much further he should go up, is very debatable. But he's definitely better than a few on that list.
 
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#87
#87
KBVol said:
Harbaugh is 20-6, back to back 10-3 seasons at Michigan.....took over a program that was 12-13 the two seasons preceding him. Would Jones be considered "explosive" if he'd have come in and posted back to back 10-3 seasons in an awful SECe?

Add what he's doing at Michigan to the list of outstanding accomplishments on his resume imo. You've gotta be going out of your way to not see his success at every level he's coached at.
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KB, I'm not buying Harbaugh yet. He's a good coach, don't get me wrong. Not sure he's close to the top 10 in college football, as many make him out to be.

Sure, he's 20-6 over the past two seasons. Butch is 18-8, which isn't that much worse, but is being lambasted as among the bottom 15 of all Power 5 conference coaches, in the OP article and by several in this thread.

20-6 versus 18-8. But Vandy and USCe, you say. Sure, that's valid. But hold on, what about Michigan losing to Iowa (8-5 Iowa, not the ranked team of the year prior)? Think that didn't steam the Michigan fans' nuts just as much as us losing the two we shouldn't have?

Yeah, just not at all sold on Harbaugh. Think he's 40% good coach and 60% hype. A bridesmaid, but never the bride.
 
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#88
#88
chargervol said:
If he earned it by beating the big 10 teams that he beats in bowls every year?
What do you say when we beat those teams?

Yeah, that's what I thought.
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As opposed to the SEC, and its depth of great teams like Alabama and.............................
 
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#89
#89
volfan102455 said:
You mean Hugh Freeze who lost to Vandy? And Malzahn who has lost to Georgia the last two years, a team which Jones defeated both years?
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Yeah, I think he means the Hugh Freeze who's beaten Alabama 2 of the last 3 years.....same Freeze who had his team ranked #3 in the country a couple years ago.

Also, OleMiss played without their senior starting qb last year when they lost to Vandy.....we had ours when we lost to the Commodores.
 
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#90
#90
NashVol11 said:
I was thinking about Bielema. I forgot that you were trying to convince me that Butch finishing in the Top 10 would mean nothing to you.

No one believes that, but please continue
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WTF are you talking about?
I have said nothing about Bielema, nothing about Harbaugh being worse than Jones, and basically nothing that you responded to.
The only thing close is the top 10 remark. And you totally BSed that one.
You're the only one who said I would never count it. I just said Harbaugh got it by beating the same teams we beat. And that if we got a top 10 ranking from beating those teams you wouldn't count it. You are 100% full of it.

I get it, if I didn't have an actual point, I would just put words in the other person's mouth also. Now please stop wasting my time and until you're talking about the same thing as me.
 
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#91
#91
VFL-82-JP said:
KB, I'm not buying Harbaugh yet. He's a good coach, don't get me wrong. Not sure he's close to the top 10 in college football, as many make him out to be.

Sure, he's 20-6 over the past two seasons. Butch is 18-8, which isn't that much worse, but is being lambasted as among the bottom 15 of all Power 5 conference coaches, in the OP article and by several in this thread.

20-6 versus 18-8. But Vandy and USCe, you say. Sure, that's valid. But hold on, what about Michigan losing to Iowa (8-5 Iowa, not the ranked team of the year prior)? Think that didn't steam the Michigan fans' nuts just as much as us losing the two we shouldn't have?

Yeah, just not at all sold on Harbaugh. Think he's 40% good coach and 60% hype. A bridesmaid, but never the bride.
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When Butch is in year one and goes 5-7, we're not allowed to expect more than that because it's year one.

When Harbaugh is in year one and goes 9-3, year one doesn't matter, he better beat OSU right away or he's overrated.

Seems fair
 
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#92
#92
chargervol said:
WTF are you talking about?
I have said nothing about Bielema, nothing about Harbaugh being worse than Jones, and basically nothing that you responded to.
The only thing close is the top 10 remark. And you totally BSed that one.
You're the only one who said I would never count it. I just said Harbaugh got it by beating the same teams we beat. And that if we got a top 10 ranking from beating those teams you wouldn't count it. You are 100% full of it.

I get it, if I didn't have an actual point, I would just put words in the other person's mouth also. Now please stop wasting my time and until you're talking about the same thing as me.
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If we got a year-end top 10 ranking in a major conference, I would absolutely count it, especially if it came in Year 2. Seems like you're putting words in my mouth...what does that mean about your point?
 
#93
#93
NashVol11 said:
As opposed to the SEC, and its depth of great teams like Alabama and.............................
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As opposed to?

I didn't compare the SEC East and the Big Ten I didn't compare Jones and Harbaugh. I simply said Harbaugh hasn't beaten who he was hired to beat.

Why are you lying so much?
 
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#94
#94
NashVol11 said:
...year one doesn't matter, he better beat OSU right away or he's overrated.
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Well, he didn't. Neither in 2015 nor 2016.

That'd be kinda like us not being Florida either year. Thank God we got the Gators this past fall, I was seriously starting to worry for KB's health. :)

So...yeah.

Not saying Harbaugh sucks. He's a good coach. He's just not elite. Not in my view.


p.s. Brady Hoke came into Michigan and got 11 wins his first season (one more than Jim Harbaugh), after the Wolverines suffering through back-to-back horrible years (5-7 and 7-6). Sound familiar?

So it's not such a unique thing Harbaugh did, coming in and winning there with the talent still on that roster. It's not like either of those two had to build the roster from the ground up.

Bottom line: unless you think Hoke is an elite head coach too, this angle is not helping your argument.
 
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#95
#95
chargervol said:
As opposed to?

I didn't compare the SEC East and the Big Ten I didn't compare Jones and Harbaugh. I simply said Harbaugh hasn't beaten who he was hired to beat.

Why are you lying so much?
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Try to follow along.

Harbaugh's top 10 finish apparently doesn't mean much because his conference has a bunch of average teams. The SEC also has one good team and a bunch of average teams. So, by your own logic, a top 10 finish by Butch would be meaningless, just like Harbaugh's--and, being the unbiased voice of reason, you would treat it as meaningless, just like Harbaugh's.

I don't think you would. I think you would treat it very differently, whether or not you admit it. So when people read you whining about treating coaches differently based on personal opinion, they might want to consider the source.
 
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#96
#96
NashVol11 said:
If we got a year-end top 10 ranking in a major conference, I would absolutely count it, especially if it came in Year 2. Seems like you're putting words in my mouth...what does that mean about your point?
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You know what, let's make this simple.

Just go back and quote where I compared the Big Ten to the SEC (Hint:I suggested the voters give Big Ten teens too much credit for beating their opponents and nothing about the SEC).
Go back and quote where I said Jones is better than JH. (Hint #2, you won't find anything remotely close because you made that entire part up like the rest of your argument.)

That has been your responses to me so prove I said it. Simple enough?
 
#98
#98
NashVol11 said:
Try to follow along.

Harbaugh's top 10 finish apparently doesn't mean much because his conference has a bunch of average teams. The SEC also has one good team and a bunch of average teams. So, by your own logic, a top 10 finish by Butch would be meaningless, just like Harbaugh's--and, being the unbiased voice of reason, you would treat it as meaningless, just like Harbaugh's.

I don't think you would. I think you would treat it very differently, whether or not you admit it. So when people read you whining about treating coaches differently based on personal opinion, they might want to consider the source.
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"So by your own logic"

Translation: "you didn't actually say that but I already opened my mouth and I'm not big enough to admit I made it up, boo hoo"
 
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#99
#99
NashVol11 said:
fyp
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Nah, Florida was the monkey on our back. Until it wasn't. Just go back and read the threads after the 2015 season.

NOW it becomes Bama. Because, you know, Butch & Co broke the Florida streak. Unlike what Harbaugh has done so far abainst Ohio State.
 
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#100
#100
chargervol said:
"So by your own logic"

Translation: "you didn't actually say that but I already opened my mouth and I'm not big enough to admit I made it up, boo hoo"
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You said Harbaugh's top 10 finish didn't count, because he beat average teams and didn't beat OSU.

So what if Butch earned a top 10 finish by beating up on SEC teams other than Alabama? Would that count? I mean, I asked you already, but you don't seem to want to answer. I think I know why
 
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