Are the six mid-tier bowls really the same?

#1
tennesseekilt

tennesseekilt

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#1
People keep saying that under this system the SEC considers the 6 mid-tier bowls the "same." While that may be the case as far as payout goes, wouldn't the conference consider matchups when selecting attendees?

In that sense, they are NOT the same, not by a long shot.

For example, why would they send a 8-4 #25 TN team to play 5-6 Kansas State in the Liberty Bowl and send, say, 6-6 Auburn to play the #3 Big 10 in the Outback? The very fact that the bowl tie-ins on the other side represent a pecking order necessitates that the SEC consider the pecking order on this end, does it not?

That said, IMO only the Outback or possibly the Belk (against FL State, Miami or Pitt) would be worthy of the season we've had.

Here is a KNS article that describes the possibilities, pecking order, and matchups:

Vols hit all the marks for Outback Bowl - GoVolsXtra Story
 
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#2
#2
The pecking order in my opinion:

1) Outback
2) Belk
3) TaxSlayer
4) Texas
5) Music City
6) Liberty
 
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#3
#3
McVay loves the Vols ! If we get the bid the VN will buy a minimum of 20k tics, potentially 35k to 40k.
 
#5
#5
Hope our coaches ferret our any wrong notions our players may have about "teams worthy of our season". We need to be ready and willing to spank whoever we get, whether a 9-3 or 6-6 team.
Dust off an old VHS of our last meetings with Clemson and Maryland should suffice to get their attention. It's bowl season .... Very little fair about the selection process.
 
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#7
#7
Here is the best chart I have seen on how this works in the SEC, for what its worth: :dunno:

Notice about the six bowls that pertain to us...

"SEC office, in consultation with schools and bowls, assigns schools to pool of six!"



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#11
#11
tennesseekilt said:
People keep saying that under this system the SEC considers the 6 mid-tier bowls the "same." While that may be the case as far as payout goes, wouldn't the conference consider matchups when selecting attendees?

In that sense, they are NOT the same, not by a long shot.

For example, why would they send a 8-4 #25 TN team to play 5-6 Kansas State in the Liberty Bowl and send, say, 6-6 Auburn to play the #3 Big 10 in the Outback? The very fact that the bowl tie-ins on the other side represent a pecking order necessitates that the SEC consider the pecking order on this end, does it not?

That said, IMO only the Outback or possibly the Belk (against FL State, Miami or Pitt) would be worthy of the season we've had.

Here is a KNS article that describes the possibilities, pecking order, and matchups:

Vols hit all the marks for Outback Bowl - GoVolsXtra Story
Click to expand...

Well last year we really had no business going to the Taxslayer bowl based off our record and pecking order. But these days the bowls are about money,money and money. If a team's fan base doesn't travel well they are less likely to get sent further from their campus. But the Taxslayer and the Outback knows our fans will travel better than most other fan bases. That means Hotels,souvenirs, food,alcohol and local attractions. Most fans won't travel that far for just one night so you are talking 3+ days of visiting and spending money. Especially this year we should be more attractive than GA,LSU and some others. If Auburn goes to the Birmingham bowl like expected they will sell out legion field but the city wouldn't make near the money on hotels and everything else. So like everything else in sports money is the driving force behind decion making and everything else. Sounding like we are Tampa bound and a great reward for our players. Really happy for the seniors who have stuck it out and been great models for the younger players. And we will play a top 15-20 team and will a win will be a springboard into next season.
 
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#12
#12
livefaith said:
Hope our coaches ferret our any wrong notions our players may have about "teams worthy of our season". We need to be ready and willing to spank whoever we get, whether a 9-3 or 6-6 team.
Dust off an old VHS of our last meetings with Clemson and Maryland should suffice to get their attention. It's bowl season .... Very little fair about the selection process.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree. This is just "fan talk." However, if we do get bumped to the Liberty or somewhere like that, no amount of "they're all the same" is going to cover up the very real fact that it would indeed be a slight.

I don't expect that to happen though!
 
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#13
#13
TeddyYeti said:
According to College Bowl Game Payouts | Statistic Brain

Payouts are:
Outback $3,500,000
Texas $3,000,000
Music City $2,750,000
Tax Slayer $2,750,000
Belk $1,700,000
Liberty $1,437,500
Click to expand...

The money goes to the SEC and is divided up among the SEC schools.

From what I remember last year, the bowls tell SEC who they'd like in their bowl.

The SEC considers that but is the one who decides where each will play.
 
#15
#15
tennesseekilt said:
People keep saying that under this system the SEC considers the 6 mid-tier bowls the "same." ... wouldn't the conference consider matchups when selecting attendees?
Click to expand...

Haven't seen anyone say they're "the same." Of course they're not. Each has its own history and lineage, advantages and disadvantages, appeals and turnoffs.

What people have said is that they're treated as co-equals among the SEC tie-ins, and that's absolutely true. But that's very different from saying they're the same.

Of course the SEC considers many criteria when making the match-ups. They consider what's best for each school, as well as what's best for each bowl. As just one example, having fans travel to more distant bowls helps increase the host city's revenue (more hotel rooms, meals, etc.) while making the bowl more "exotic" for the players and fans alike. Not repeating the same bowl or same opponent two years in a row is important, as well. Then there are recruiting market considerations, and balance between teams (make it an exciting game, not lopsided), and on and on.

So no, they are not the same. But they are co-equal in the eyes of the SEC.

TeddyYeti said:
According to College Bowl Game Payouts | Statistic Brain

Payouts are:
Outback $3,500,000
Texas $3,000,000
Music City $2,750,000
Tax Slayer $2,750,000
Belk $1,700,000
Liberty $1,437,500
Click to expand...

This is one place where they are NOT so different.

You found the raw numbers. But you gotta scratch a layer deeper to discover that there's really very little to no difference in payouts from the universities' perspectives.

This post by TrueOrange explains it well:

TrueOrange said:
For simplified reference, here's the announced 2015 payout for each bowl having an SEC tie-in....:

...

Outback Bowl $3,500,000 ------ team retains $1,275,000 plus a travel allowance

Texas Bowl $3,000,000 ------ team retains $1,275,000 plus a travel allowance

Music City Bowl $2,750,000 ------ team retains $1,275,000 plus a travel allowance

TaxSlayer $2,750,000 ------ team retains $1,275,000 plus a travel allowance

Belk Bowl $1,700,000 ------ team retains $1,275,000 plus a travel allowance

Liberty Bowl $1,437,500 ------ team retains $1,000,000 plus a travel allowance

...
Click to expand...

I only quoted the part concerning the 6 co-equal bowls. The whole post is worth reading, if you're interested.

Go Vols!
 
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#17
#17
TeddyYeti said:
True, but how else would you rank these bowls?
Click to expand...

Some do it by play date. Any January bowl is better than any December bowl. More "prestigious."

Some do it by history and lineage. Something like this:

1946 -- Gator --> TaxSlayer
1959 -- Liberty
1986 -- Hallf of Fame --> Outback
1998 -- Music City
2002 -- Belk
2006 -- Texas

Some do it by temperature: sunny Florida destinations most highly regarded.

There is no single right answer. Just however you want to view them. In SEC tie-in terms, they're co-equal.
 
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#19
#19
VFL-82-JP said:
What people have said is that they're treated as co-equals among the SEC tie-ins, and that's absolutely true.
Click to expand...

I think you've done a nice job explaining the concept as the SEC would have us understand it, but I still don't completely get it. If they are "co-equal," then a school should feel just as good about going to one as to the other, right? But the fact is, there is a huge difference in playing the Big12 #5 and the Big10 #3. There's also a huge difference between the 6 SEC schools who will go.

I just don't get the "co-equal" concept. Just rank them all and be done with it (yes, taking in the other factors you mentioned, of course). That way teams know where they stand.
 
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#20
#20
StarRaider said:
hex-equal?
Click to expand...

Heh, yeah! I guess so, anyway. Nice. :)

tennesseekilt said:
I think you've done a nice job explaining the concept as the SEC would have us understand it, but I still don't completely get it. If they are "co-equal," then a school should feel just as good about going to one as to the other, right? But the fact is, there is a huge difference in playing the Big12 #5 and the Big10 #3. There's also a huge difference between the 6 SEC schools who will go.

I just don't get the "co-equal" concept. Just rank them all and be done with it (yes, taking in the other factors you mentioned, of course). That way teams know where they stand.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I think that's how the idea of making them co-equal came into play in the first place. Too many rules and too much structure ("the SEC #6 will always go here vs the ACC #6") could result in some unsavory matchups, or repeats from the regular season, or repeats from the previous year, or a "bowl trip" to the same town as the team's university, or any one of a number of less-than-ideal options.

So I think they finally said, to both the universities and the bowls, "hey, give us the freedom to make good matches without regard to strict pecking order, and we can come up with some compelling and rewarding bowls."

And so that's what they did.

So they're now co-equals.

Of course, a lot of us older fans remember when they weren't all co-equal. We remember (sort of, to one extent or another) the old pecking orders. So yeah, there's still some of that carrying over. But that collective memory will slowly fade, like all memories.

break/break

What would be fascinating would be finding out how the various fan bases view the bowls.

There should be a lot of commonality and overlap. Going to sunny Florida will be more appealing to just about everyone than cold, rainy/snowy Tennessee or Texas, for instance ... going to a bowl that has been around for 70 years and is played in January is going to be more prestigious for everyone than a bowl that was just created nine years ago.

But there still might be differences. For instance, it may be more "exotic" for Florida fans to go to North Carolina or Tennessee or Texas, than to drive down the road to Orlando or Jacksonville. It may be cooler for Mizzou fans to head across the Appalachian Mountains to Charlotte than to just hop across the Mississippi to the Liberty Bowl. And so on.

If someone did research along those lines, that would be interesting to read.
 
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#22
#22
livefaith said:
Hope our coaches ferret our any wrong notions our players may have about "teams worthy of our season". We need to be ready and willing to spank whoever we get, whether a 9-3 or 6-6 team.
Dust off an old VHS of our last meetings with Clemson and Maryland should suffice to get their attention. It's bowl season .... Very little fair about the selection process.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with this statement. Having attended those bowls games I hope to never repeat that experience again.
 
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#23
#23
TeddyYeti said:
True, but how else would you rank these bowls?
Click to expand...

The follow-on posts do a good job of explaining the reasoning. It is more of an art than a science. Example: Last year, with the TaxSlayer Bowl, we went to a better bowl than our 6-6 record dictated.

There is some process of elimination:
1) TaxSlayer - They don't want the same teams two consecutive years, so that one is definitely eliminated.
2) Texas - Prefers a SEC West team
3) Music City - We already played in Nashville this year, so that works against us.

Leaving:
1) Outback - As the best of the mid-tier group, may feel obligated to take the runner-up Citrus choice (either Florida or LSU)
2) Belk - Prefers a SEC East team.
3) Liberty - Most would agree that this is the worst of the six choices.

Outback is preferred because it is played Jan 1st and it is warm weather. The Belk in North Carolina is nice, but colder weather. Our fan base is way too pretty for the Liberty Bowl.

With all that said, the Nashville media is trying to make a case for Vols vs Penn State (James Franklin) in Music City Bowl. I vote for Outback, Belk, or Texas (in that order).
 
#24
#24
Jax_Vol said:
With all that said, the Nashville media is trying to make a case for Vols vs Penn State (James Franklin) in Music City Bowl.
Click to expand...

HAHAHAHAHA!


I hadn't heard that. That is simply AWESOME. "Let's bring to Nashville everyone that the Vandy community (small as it is) truly hates."

Would be classic. :)
 
#25
#25
VFL-82-JP said:
So I think they finally said, to both the universities and the bowls, "hey, give us the freedom to make good matches without regard to strict pecking order, and we can come up with some compelling and rewarding bowls."

And so that's what they did.

So they're now co-equals.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I can accept and agree with all the factors you mention without necessarily calling the bowls "co-equal." Because of all those things, some schools will get bumped up (like we did last year) and some may go to a slightly lesser one, but at least they know where they stand.

Good summary though, and good discussion!
 
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