April is confederate heritage month

[FLVOL_79]

I think one of the saddest parts of the war is how the wealthy aristocrat of the south convinced the poor yeoman farmer that their causes were the same.

The saddest part of the war is that around 700,000 Americans died, at the hands of Americans. I guess the upside is that no one is better at kicking Americans asses than..Americans?

 

[MurphyVol]

Traitors? Hardly. Secession wasn't barred in the US Constitution so was thus a legal remedy. If I'm not wrong the SC confirmed that. States which seceded were no longer part of the US and of course their citizens were no longer US citizens. One can't be a traitor to a foreign country.
If you pay attention to the number and dates of the monuments you'll see that the bulk were put up when the veterans were at late middle age or older.

Scholars are very much split on the legality of secession pre-Civil War. Some state that it was not prohibited for various reasons, some state that it was impermissible for various reasons. The original rule of law, the Articles of Confederation explicitly mentions a Perpetual Union and some argue it was "implied" when the Constitution replaced the AOC.

They do seem to agree that the Supreme Court very much closed that door post-Civil War with Texas vs White with the 5-3 ruling that states can't break from the "indestructible Union"

Interesting things to think about...

What if the South had tried to peacefully negotiate something at Fort Sumter? Without "southern aggression" would Lincoln have been able to garner support for the war?

The Confederate Constitution:

-Banned any state from declaring slavery illegal

-Outlawed any protective tariffs

-Did not contain the word secede.

Like the US Constitution, secession was vague but possibly more implied based on some language in the preamble. With the growing pains of a new nation, would some states have tried to splinter off or rejoin the Union?

Fascinating things to think about...with slavery becoming morally unacceptable, would the South have adapted away from its agriculture heavy economy?

Would a decentralized government heavy on states having more rights have led to conflict?

Would trade between the US and the Confederacy have eventually opened up as time went on?

Would either country have felt like they had the resources to join WW2?

 

[hog88]

Scholars are very much split on the legality of secession pre-Civil War. Some state that it was not prohibited for various reasons, some state that it was impermissible for various reasons. The original rule of law, the Articles of Confederation explicitly mentions a Perpetual Union and some argue it was "implied" when the Constitution replaced the AOC.

They do seem to agree that the Supreme Court very much closed that door post-Civil War with Texas vs White with the 5-3 ruling that states can't break from the "indestructible Union"

Interesting things to think about...

What if the South had tried to peacefully negotiate something at Fort Sumter? Without "southern aggression" would Lincoln have been able to garner support for the war?

The Confederate Constitution:

-Banned any state from declaring slavery illegal

-Outlawed any protective tariffs

-Did not contain the word secede.

Like the US Constitution, secession was vague but possibly more implied based on some language in the preamble. With the growing pains of a new nation, would some states have tried to splinter off or rejoin the Union?

Fascinating things to think about...with slavery becoming morally unacceptable, would the South have adapted away from its agriculture heavy economy?

Would a decentralized government heavy on states having more rights have led to conflict?

Would trade between the US and the Confederacy have eventually opened up as time went on?

Would either country have felt like they had the resources to join WW2?

4 months, South Carolina allowed union forces to occupy Ft Sumpter unmolested for 4 months. The union refused any negotiations and eventually tried to run the blockade to resupply the fort. If the administration would have withdrawn its forces there would have been no bombardment but of course the north wouldn’t have had a reason for its invasion.

Slavery would have died out within 20-40 years without the war.

The articles of confederation did not apply once the constitution was ratified, there is no language within the constitution prohibiting secession.

 

[LouderVol]

Are you a member of a family of Carpetbaggers?

one half might have been; the side that had more than 2000 acres and 3 farmsteads burned down, at least 2 women raped, 3 men wounded, and 1 killed, were not. fwiw 1 of the women who was raped was a widow of a southern soldier, so its not like they were sympathizers. they just happened to be Catholics which made them not wasPy enough for the KKK.

 

[TNVOLNAVY]

The Civil War was the last best chance to stop the tyrannical federal government. Educate yourself!

 

[LouderVol]

4 months, South Carolina allowed union forces to occupy Ft Sumpter unmolested for 4 months. The union refused any negotiations and eventually tried to run the blockade to resupply the fort. If the administration would have withdrawn its forces there would have been no bombardment but of course the north wouldn’t have had a reason for its invasion.

Slavery would have died out within 20-40 years without the war.

The articles of confederation did not apply once the constitution was ratified, there is no language within the constitution prohibiting secession.

slavery probably would have died out quicker than 20 years if the north didn't keep the industrial monopoly out of the south, and didn't practice unfair trading laws.

the north kept the south poor, and un-industrialized to maintain their power in Congress.

the american south is about the one place in the world where ending slavery didn't come after industrialization. instead of allowing that industrialization the north chose violence to maintain their hegemony.

 

[dalton_vol]

Little history nugget

 

[utvolpj]

Little history nugget

Just the opening screenshot shows how dishonest that eval would be.

Left alone to Govern themselves? They wanted to grow their economy off the backs of people owned and treated like livestock

You know who else would have liked freedom from a tyrannical govt? Slaves. The confederacy would have still been tyrannical

 

[Orangeburst]

So Hood was a bad commander? With forts named after Bragg and Hood, seems the Dept of War may of had an reason for the naming..Stewart was a good officer though..who else? Benning, etc,


Looked up Campbell..didnt know this. Maybe because KY was a neutral state and sits on border. Quite appropriate naming.

Fort Campbell was named after Brigadier General William Bowen Campbell, a former Tennessee Governor who served as a Union General during the Civil War. He was the last Whig Governor if Tennesee.

 

[EasternVol]

So Hood was a bad commander? With forts named after Bragg and Hood, seems the Dept of War may of had an reason for the naming..Stewart was a good officer though..who else? Benning, etc,


Looked up Campbell..didnt know this. Maybe because KY was a neutral state and sits on border. Quite appropriate naming.

Fort Campbell was named after Brigadier General William Bowen Campbell, a former Tennessee Governor who served as a Union General during the Civil War. He was the last Whig Governor if Tennesee.

The knock on Hood is that he lacked discretion on when to attack and when to maneuver. He'd left bits and pieces of himself on various battlefields and was said to be heavily on the laudanum, which may have affected his judgement. And he may have reasonably thought his only chance at victory was to attack as he did.
I guess the forts were named as they were for post-war reconciliation.

 

[lostsheep]

4 months, South Carolina allowed union forces to occupy Ft Sumpter unmolested for 4 months. The union refused any negotiations and eventually tried to run the blockade to resupply the fort. If the administration would have withdrawn its forces there would have been no bombardment but of course the north wouldn’t have had a reason for its invasion.

Slavery would have died out within 20-40 years without the war.

The articles of confederation did not apply once the constitution was ratified, there is no language within the constitution prohibiting secession.

Lots of confederate sympathizing going on up in here.

 

[hog88]

Lots of confederate sympathizing going on up in here.

Facts are now considered sympathizing?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Facts are now considered sympathizing?

Is the opposite tyrannical sympathizing?

 

[midnight orange]

Lots of confederate sympathizing going on up in here.

This is confederate sympathizing.

 

[tvolsfan]

Lots of confederate sympathizing going on up in here.

What’s not to celebrate about an organization that only existed to preserve slavery?

 

[Sandman 423]

What’s not to celebrate about an organization that only existed to preserve slavery?

The whole democrat party didn't exist just to preserve slavery. simply not true.

 

[KB5252]

Lots of confederate sympathizing going on up in here.

This is a myopic way to look at something extremely complex.

 

[hog88]

This is a myopic way to look at something extremely complex.

What else would you expect from simple minded people?

 

[MurphyVol]

4 months, South Carolina allowed union forces to occupy Ft Sumpter unmolested for 4 months. The union refused any negotiations and eventually tried to run the blockade to resupply the fort. If the administration would have withdrawn its forces there would have been no bombardment but of course the north wouldn’t have had a reason for its invasion.

Slavery would have died out within 20-40 years without the war.

The articles of confederation did not apply once the constitution was ratified, there is no language within the constitution prohibiting secession.

The Union occupied the fort for about 30 years.. if they didn't recognize the secession, why would they abandon their own military installation.

You have no clue how long slavery would have gone on. It may have lasted to the brink of the 20th century...or the Confederacy may have folded in less than 5 years.

I never claimed the AOC was valid in any way, I quoted opposing views of Constitutional scholars that know way more about the Constitution than I ever will.

It's tragic the way it played out but I personally very much enjoy being an American citizen.

 

[hog88]

The Union occupied the fort for about 30 years.. if they didn't recognize the secession, why would they abandon their own military installation.

You have no clue how long slavery would have gone on. It may have lasted to the brink of the 20th century...or the Confederacy may have folded in less than 5 years.

I never claimed the AOC was valid in any way, I quoted opposing views of Constitutional scholars that know way more about the Constitution than I ever will.

It's tragic the way it played out but I personally very much enjoy being an American citizen.

The union abandoned all other military installations, the administration chose to take a stand at Sumpter to provoke SC troops into violence.

Mechanization would have ended slavery even without foreign political pressure, I doubt the institution would have lasted but another 2-3 decades.

Constitutional scholars-

I absolutely agree that we are much better off as a single country, what Lincoln and his sycophants did to reunify was unforgivable. We are dealing with his tyranny still today.

 

[LouderVol]

The union abandoned all other military installations, the administration chose to take a stand at Sumpter to provoke SC troops into violence.

Mechanization would have ended slavery even without foreign political pressure, I doubt the institution would have lasted but another 2-3 decades.

Constitutional scholars-

I absolutely agree that we are much better off as a single country, what Lincoln and his sycophants did to reunify was unforgivable. We are dealing with his tyranny still today.

they didn't abandon all of the others. They held a couple in Florida too. There was also the "exchange" of Fort Massachusetts in Mississippi. where the union left, the militia briefly occupied, and then the union reoccupied all in 1861, all before the war, and without a shot being fired. there was also fort monroe in norfolk virginia they never left which was key to some of the early Virginia campaigns

 

[dalton_vol]

Just the opening screenshot shows how dishonest that eval would be.

Left alone to Govern themselves? They wanted to grow their economy off the backs of people owned and treated like livestock

You know who else would have liked freedom from a tyrannical govt? Slaves. The confederacy would have still been tyrannical

Nope. That's not accurate. Slavery would have been abolished even if the south remained succeeded. Lincoln would have kept slavery if the southern states stayed.

 

[dalton_vol]

The union abandoned all other military installations, the administration chose to take a stand at Sumpter to provoke SC troops into violence.

Mechanization would have ended slavery even without foreign political pressure, I doubt the institution would have lasted but another 2-3 decades.

Constitutional scholars-

I absolutely agree that we are much better off as a single country, what Lincoln and his sycophants did to reunify was unforgivable. We are dealing with his tyranny still today.

Honestly, I'd be fine we succeeded today. All that money going to the federal government what state in the states. Our politicians would have to be more accountable on the local and state level then they are at the federal level

 

[utvolpj]

Nope. That's not accurate. Slavery would have been abolished even if the south remained succeeded. Lincoln would have kept slavery if the southern states stayed.

Oh yeah they were well on their way to voluntarily giving up the human beings they felt they owned.

 

[hog88]

Oh yeah they were well on their way to voluntarily giving up the human beings they felt they owned.

Pretty much.