Anthony Jordan (head official vs LSU)

#326
#326
cncchris33 said:
An interesting read, but far from conclusive with regards to their ability to do their job, and to do it fairly. It is easy to balance the books in games that are uncompetitive. I'd be curious what the numbers are in games involving LSU for Jordan.
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Or better yet what is Jordan’s record working LSU games in Baton Rouge?
 
#327
#327
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#329
#329
golfballs said:
This would actually suggest that he called this LSU game much differently than he calls most games. Very peculiar.........
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Good point, peculiar indeed. Also as someone else suggested, post a critique of the refs. performance. This article suggests that there is a system of some sort in place. At least, someone has enough information to make judgement.
 
#330
#330
I feel like how much a ref favors the home team is one of about a dozen factors I would use to grade an official on. Yet that appears to be the only factor they use in grading these refs? For instance, a very important factor me is whether or not they'd call a foul due to insignificant contact between two guys hustling for a loose ball at mid-court with no time left in overtime of a tied game. If the answer to that is yes then does anything else really matter?

Plus it does nothing to prove he doesn't have a bias toward LSU (which I'm not 100% convinced he does) because all he would have to do is work an LSU road game and call the game heavily in their favor. Then, based on this ridiculous nonsense, his grading would improve.
 
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#331
#331
Ok - well I had the flu, which kept me home from work and gave me a lot of spare time, haha...

I've gone back through all the LSU games since January of 2014 that Anthony Jordan has reffed. Unfortunately, what I don't have is a breakdown of whistles blown by ref by game. Total fouls per team in the box score isn't really going to indicate whether 1 ref is biased. As we all know, if the fouls are 7-2 in the 1st half with 10:00 left, you can almost wager your mortgage that the next foul is going against the team with only 2. Jordan is only 1 ref. So the other 2 will most likely even things out over time. This is what led to the overall foul total on Saturday only being +5 in favor of LSU despite Jordan calling 2/3 of his whistles against Tennessee and also being responsible for 2/3 of the overall whistles blown.

High level stats from the research:

- LSU is 16-5 S/U and 7-11-1 ATS in games that Jordan refs (2 games didn't have a spread)
- LSU is 6-4 S/U and 6-4 ATS in SEC games
- In those 10 SEC games, there was only 1 game where LSU's opponent had more fouls than LSU (again, this would be much more impactful if I had calls by ref data)
- 3 of LSU's losses in those games were during the 2016-2017 season in which they only won 2 SEC games all year (they sucked)

1st conclusion: Jordan has absolutely not had a positive effect in LSU beating the spread. I do not believe at all that Jordan entered any game with the spread in mind.

2nd conclusion: I think we've probably overblown this thing a bit (no, not Vol twitter...!! :) ) While LSU is 16-5 in games reffed by Jordan in that span of time, many of those games were garbage games early in the year (i.e. Grambling, Louisiana Monroe, North Florida, etc...) I don't think Jordan is a Tim Donaghy type rogue ref.

3rd conclusion: I do think Jordan has at least some bias towards LSU. I say that because of what my 2 eyes saw on Saturday and what I know to be true about pretty much any fan. No matter how unbiased we try to be, if it's a 50/50 situation, we're going to see it the way we want to see it. Was Saturday just a good ol' fashioned home whistle that we've all come to expect in the SEC?

4th conclusion: Alabama fans do not care about basketball at all. The fact that their fan base did not catch this tells me that because earlier this year Jordan reffed an LSU-Alabama game (LSU narrowly won)

5th conclusion: The last foul called against us should not be the point of focus here. If you make that the point of focus, people are going to tell you that was obviously a foul and you need to get over it. I mean, it was a foul, and if they didn't call it on Williams, it appeared Turner thought we were losing because he was about to wrap the guy up.

6th conclusion: Jordan should not be allowed to referee LSU games ever again. This needs to be monitored. He probably shouldn't do any SEC games at all now that there is a perception of bias towards LSU and anti-Alabama. What else should be done? Nothing. We got a really bad whistle on Saturday. It happens all the freaking time in this conference. And you know what, the refs pretty much handed us the Vanderbilt game earlier in the year (and I hate to say that, because I hate Vanderbilt). Our team needs to focus on getting back on track. We could have, and should have, won the game Saturday in spite of Jordan. At the end of the day, we blew it.
 
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#332
#332
SEC needs to check his calls in every game he has been the Ref LSU vs anybody to see if there is a bias in calls in any or all of those games. If so I think Tennessee and other schools should demand he not ref their games in the future.
 
#333
#333
Halph66 said:
Good point, peculiar indeed. Also as someone else suggested, post a critique of the refs. performance. This article suggests that there is a system of some sort in place. At least, someone has enough information to make judgement.
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Stop trying to find and make excuses for the loss. we lost..plain and simple. starting to sound like UK fans
 
#334
#334
wtmvol said:
Ok - well I had the flu, which kept me home from work and gave me a lot of spare time, haha...

I've gone back through all the LSU games since January of 2014 that Anthony Jordan has reffed. Unfortunately, what I don't have is a breakdown of whistles blown by ref by game. Total fouls per team in the box score isn't really going to indicate whether 1 ref is biased. As we all know, if the fouls are 7-2 in the 1st half with 10:00 left, you can almost wager your mortgage that the next foul is going against the team with only 2. Jordan is only 1 ref. So the other 2 will most likely even things out over time. This is what led to the overall foul total on Saturday only being +5 in favor of LSU despite Jordan calling 2/3 of his whistles against Tennessee and also being responsible for 2/3 of the overall whistles blown.

High level stats from the research:

- LSU is 16-5 S/U and 7-11-1 ATS in games that Jordan refs (2 games didn't have a spread)
- LSU is 6-4 S/U and 6-4 ATS in SEC games
- In those 10 SEC games, there was only 1 game where LSU's opponent had more fouls than LSU (again, this would be much more impactful if I had calls by ref data)
- 3 of LSU's losses in those games were during the 2016-2017 season in which they only won 2 SEC games all year (they sucked)

1st conclusion: Jordan has absolutely not had a positive effect in LSU beating the spread. I do not believe at all that Jordan entered any game with the spread in mind.

2nd conclusion: I think we've probably overblown this thing a bit (no, not Vol twitter...!! :) ) While LSU is 16-5 in games reffed by Jordan in that span of time, many of those games were garbage games early in the year (i.e. Grambling, Louisiana Monroe, North Florida, etc...) I don't think Jordan is a Tim Donaghy type rogue ref.

3rd conclusion: I do think Jordan has at least some bias towards LSU. I say that because of what my 2 eyes saw on Saturday and what I know to be true about pretty much any fan. No matter how unbiased we try to be, if it's a 50/50 situation, we're going to see it the way we want to see it. Was Saturday just a good ol' fashioned home whistle that we've all come to expect in the SEC?

4th conclusion: Alabama fans do not care about basketball at all. The fact that their fan base did not catch this tells me that because earlier this year Jordan reffed an LSU-Alabama game (LSU narrowly won)

5th conclusion: The last foul called against us should not be the point of focus here. If you make that the point of focus, people are going to tell you that was obviously a foul and you need to get over it. I mean, it was a foul, and if they didn't call it on Williams, it appeared Turner thought we were losing because he was about to wrap the guy up.

6th conclusion: Jordan should not be allowed to referee LSU games ever again. This needs to be monitored. He probably shouldn't do any SEC games at all now that there is a perception of bias towards LSU and anti-Alabama. What else should be done? Nothing. We got a really bad whistle on Saturday. It happens all the freaking time in this conference. And you know what, the refs pretty much handed us the Vanderbilt game earlier in the year (and I hate to say that, because I hate Vanderbilt). Our team needs to focus on getting back on track. We could have, and should have, won the game Saturday in spite of Jordan. At the end of the day, we blew it.
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Jordan would probably be wise to recuse himself of all SEC games now that there is a perception, fair or not, that he has a vested interest in the outcome of no just LSU games, but also SEC games whose outcome can affect LSU positively or negatively in the SEC standings. For instance, how likely do you feel that Tennessee gets the benefit of the doubt tomorrow night vs Ole Miss if Jordan is calling the game with Tennessee, LSU, and Kenticky tied atop the SEC standings?

It just isn't a good look for Jordan or the SEC to further involve him in potentially deciding the outcome of games with the notion that he could potentially...consciously or otherwise, factor into determining the outcome of games with a personal bias.
 
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#335
#335
volnation504 said:
Stop trying to find and make excuses for the loss. we lost..plain and simple. starting to sound like UK fans
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I think most fans realize that turning the ball over 14 times had as much to do our ability to determine the outcome as anything. I can't recall a single poster implying that Tennessee did everything right, and that a dirty official determined the outcome.

However, this is an instance where I think it is fair to objectively surmise that there was at least the possibility that not everything was objective on the court. And I won't even factor in the discrepancy in fouls called or free throws.

-Naz Reid should have been ejected a minute into the game...no ifs, ands, or buts about it. That is a Flagrant 2 foul all day, everyday.

-Will Wade gets T'd up in 346 other gyms last Saturday for the way he behaved on the sideline. He didn't even receive a warning in Baton Rouge.

-The foul call on Williams for taking an elbow to the face is inexplicable, unless you can determine that he impeded the offensive player's rightful space in the nanoseconds prior to getting clocked.

-The no-call on a textbook hook-and-hold. A call that I hate see be a Flagrant 1 foul, is still by the rule a Flagrant 1 foul. When it occurs under the basket within 10 feet of Anthony Jordan, whose eyes are glued to the action as it occurs in front of him as Williams is pinned down, and he somehow determines it not to be an F1 is beyond me.

-The foul on Williams that allowed the winning FT attempts was a foul. No argument. But when the official goes to review the time on the clock, realizes that there should have clearly been 1.4 secs instead of .6, indicates to the clock operator with a hand signal to add time, and then it doesn't happen....that is just gross negligence. If you stop a game for a time review, and then you don't ensure that the proper amount of time was added before putting the ball in play, then you either suck at your job, or you just don't care. Either one is a bad answer.

So yeah, Tennessee made plenty of mistakes that cost themselves the game, but that doesn't absolve the officials for gross misconduct within the game. The outcome is irrelevant to the poor job they put on display the entire afternoon. And the idea that they shouldn't be reprimanded for that in the court of public opinion is silly. We can admit we still should have won in spite of the poor officiating and not dismiss the poor officiating altogether. That simply empowers that crew with the belief that the job they did Saturday was acceptable, and it's not.
 
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#336
#336
Rushin Orange Collusion said:
Says who - the SEC? That’s funny. Kentucky fans should worry if this guy refs a meaningful game for them. This is not just a UT problem. All fans of other SEC teams, except LSU, should be concerned. Which other referees have biases? They should all be exposed. He can’t be the only one.
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He's just stupid enough to get caught
 
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#337
#337
cncchris33 said:
I think most fans realize that turning the ball over 14 times had as much to do our ability to determine the outcome as anything. I can't recall a single poster implying that Tennessee did everything right, and that a dirty official determined the outcome.

However, this is an instance where I think it is fair to objectively surmise that there was at least the possibility that not everything was objective on the court. And I won't even factor in the discrepancy in fouls called or free throws.

-Naz Reid should have been ejected a minute into the game...no ifs, ands, or buts about it. That is a Flagrant 2 foul all day, everyday.

-Will Wade gets T'd up in 346 other gyms last Saturday for the way he behaved on the sideline. He didn't even receive a warning in Baton Rouge.

-The foul call on Williams for taking an elbow to the face is inexplicable, unless you can determine that he impeded the offensive player's rightful space in the nanoseconds prior to getting clocked.

-The foul on Williams that allowed the winning FT attempts was a foul. No argument. But when the official goes to review the time on the clock, realizes that there should have clearly been 1.4 secs instead of .6, indicates to the clock operator with a hand signal to add time, and then it doesn't happen....that is just gross negligence. If you stop a game for a time review, and then you don't ensure that the proper amount of time was added before putting the ball in play, then you either suck at your job, or you just don't care. Either one is a bad answer.

So yeah, Tennessee made plenty of mistakes that cost themselves the game, but that doesn't absolve the officials for gross misconduct within the game. The outcome is irrelevant to the poor job they put on display the entire afternoon. And the idea that they shouldn't be reprimanded for that in the court of public opinion is silly. We can admit we still should have won in spite of the poor officiating and not dismiss the poor officiating altogether. That simply empowers that crew with the belief that the job they did Saturday was acceptable, and it's not.
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It was enough of a concern that Barnes called the SEC office about it when called to his attention. But, we lost because we've got two decisive pieces of our machine in slumps at the same time. KY game also.
 
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#338
#338
calban said:
It was enough of a concern that Barnes called the SEC office about it when called to his attention. But, we lost because we've got two decisive pieces of our machine in slumps at the same time. KY game also.
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Yeah, it isn't a non-story. At the very least, it is suspiciously coincidental and worth discussion. And it can be discussed without being deemed the sole reason we lost.
 
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#341
#341
wtmvol said:
Ok - well I had the flu, which kept me home from work and gave me a lot of spare time, haha...

I've gone back through all the LSU games since January of 2014 that Anthony Jordan has reffed. Unfortunately, what I don't have is a breakdown of whistles blown by ref by game. Total fouls per team in the box score isn't really going to indicate whether 1 ref is biased. As we all know, if the fouls are 7-2 in the 1st half with 10:00 left, you can almost wager your mortgage that the next foul is going against the team with only 2. Jordan is only 1 ref. So the other 2 will most likely even things out over time. This is what led to the overall foul total on Saturday only being +5 in favor of LSU despite Jordan calling 2/3 of his whistles against Tennessee and also being responsible for 2/3 of the overall whistles blown.

High level stats from the research:

- LSU is 16-5 S/U and 7-11-1 ATS in games that Jordan refs (2 games didn't have a spread)
- LSU is 6-4 S/U and 6-4 ATS in SEC games
- In those 10 SEC games, there was only 1 game where LSU's opponent had more fouls than LSU (again, this would be much more impactful if I had calls by ref data)
- 3 of LSU's losses in those games were during the 2016-2017 season in which they only won 2 SEC games all year (they sucked)

1st conclusion: Jordan has absolutely not had a positive effect in LSU beating the spread. I do not believe at all that Jordan entered any game with the spread in mind.

2nd conclusion: I think we've probably overblown this thing a bit (no, not Vol twitter...!! :) ) While LSU is 16-5 in games reffed by Jordan in that span of time, many of those games were garbage games early in the year (i.e. Grambling, Louisiana Monroe, North Florida, etc...) I don't think Jordan is a Tim Donaghy type rogue ref.

3rd conclusion: I do think Jordan has at least some bias towards LSU. I say that because of what my 2 eyes saw on Saturday and what I know to be true about pretty much any fan. No matter how unbiased we try to be, if it's a 50/50 situation, we're going to see it the way we want to see it. Was Saturday just a good ol' fashioned home whistle that we've all come to expect in the SEC?

4th conclusion: Alabama fans do not care about basketball at all. The fact that their fan base did not catch this tells me that because earlier this year Jordan reffed an LSU-Alabama game (LSU narrowly won)

5th conclusion: The last foul called against us should not be the point of focus here. If you make that the point of focus, people are going to tell you that was obviously a foul and you need to get over it. I mean, it was a foul, and if they didn't call it on Williams, it appeared Turner thought we were losing because he was about to wrap the guy up.

6th conclusion: Jordan should not be allowed to referee LSU games ever again. This needs to be monitored. He probably shouldn't do any SEC games at all now that there is a perception of bias towards LSU and anti-Alabama. What else should be done? Nothing. We got a really bad whistle on Saturday. It happens all the freaking time in this conference. And you know what, the refs pretty much handed us the Vanderbilt game earlier in the year (and I hate to say that, because I hate Vanderbilt). Our team needs to focus on getting back on track. We could have, and should have, won the game Saturday in spite of Jordan. At the end of the day, we blew it.
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Let him work games where the stipend is $20!
 
#342
#342
I know one damn thing, Tennessee fans better be ready when we play at home. Give the refs what for like Kentucky fans do, Barnes needs to tell the players to play and don't flop and when bad calls happen I will have your back. I am tired of seeing other coaches rail the refs like LSU and Kentucky's did and Barnes just sits back. Some time a TECH can be a good thing. If Kentucky tries to go inside I want to see a tough team refuse to back down even if that means some good hard fouls, enough weak crap and on offense go hard to the rim or get out of the dadgum game. Bang em and play tough. GBO!!!!!
 
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#343
#343
deezvols said:
SEC ref explains photo posing with LSU T-shirt
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F HIM! It's not the sole reason we lost for sure. But at the same time it doesn't excuse the ref. He is FOS, he told the LSU guard to quit palming or he was going to call it. DUH, that is what he is supposed to do not warn him after the 4th time. PITIFUL, a inordinate amount of fouls not only called by one ref, but also a inordinate against 1 team. He deserves the scrutiny. And again I am not blaming the loss entirely on the refs, but his situation does raise serious concerns.
 
#346
#346
Woodlawn VOL said:
F HIM! It's not the sole reason we lost for sure. But at the same time it doesn't excuse the ref. He is FOS, he told the LSU guard to quit palming or he was going to call it. DUH, that is what he is supposed to do not warn him after the 4th time. PITIFUL, a inordinate amount of fouls not only called by one ref, but also a inordinate against 1 team. He deserves the scrutiny. And again I am not blaming the loss entirely on the refs, but his situation does raise serious concerns.
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I'm glad someone else noticed that. I swear there was one play that the kid carried the ball twice and then picked up his dribble and traveled on his his way to the rim.

I think it might have been the time Dickie V mentioned something about some people would consider that traveling I don't know. The kid traveled and carried the ball so many times that it was hard to keep up with.
 
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#348
#348
volnation504 said:
Stop trying to find and make excuses for the loss. we lost..plain and simple. starting to sound like UK fans
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How dare I have an conversation with someone (not you) without first consulting you for your opinion, and then adopting your opinion. WTF?
 
#349
#349
The elbow. The body slam should have been an ejection. The hook and hold review that was then no called. There was enough to shift the game. It went to overtime after all.
 
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