Antartica Melting Fast

#126
#126
Why not stay on topic, you claimed we could see an ice free earth, however, for three years straight we've had record breaking amounts of sea ice. Explain
 
#129
#129
Mtntrout said:
It is continuously collected, and you and I have access to it along with everyone else.

World ocean data is being updated, and that has mostly been shared. Southern ocean data has been revisited and I linked one of those as well. The concept that the world's oceans are heating up is well established through various independent means. That Antarctica's oceans are heating faster was established in that paper. That no one has continued to rehash this finding specifically while continuing to publish data on world oceans and Antartica's ocean is not anything that raises an eyebrow.

We know it is getting warmer faster. They cited the first paper documenting it. If you or anyone else has a data analysis that counters this, it should be published immediately. Instead, the authors of that first paper continue to update world ocean temperature data as a whole.

I'm not really seeing an issue. If you are saying the paper is too old and inaccurate, one can look at more recent literature and see the phenomenon is ongoing but this paper accomplishes in a single citation what would take a literature review and independent analysis to equate to.
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So it's not a budget issue after all...

1. I don't buy the - if what was happening then isn't happening exactly the same now it would be published argument. For trend data; particularly trend data that produces an "average" trend one would expect variation.

2. I asked earlier but didn't see if you responded - does the more recent paper verify the DIFFERENCE in heating rates that was established from the 20 year old study?

3. The blog authors stated a specific fact of difference in heating and directly implied that difference is what we see now. They cited an average difference found in data that was collected 20 years ago. If that same difference is still occurring then I assume research shows that.

If research doesn't show that why should we assume the trend is unchanged?

Clearly the global temperature change and the change in ocean temperature various from the change seen from 1955 - 1995 (or 1998 as Al Gore likes to use).

So far as I can tell the average difference found in the "seminal study" has not been updated to show if the difference remains the same (the blog authors' contention). I could not see that in the recent article you posted but you may be able to where I cannot.

If the recent article does verify the difference in heating rates then it should be the citation since we are talking about trend data rather than a more static finding (e.g. link between CO2 and warming).

Here's the simple question - is the difference in heating rates between the oceans and Antarctic specifically the same as it was in the 1955-1995 data set. If yes, how do you know. If no, why make a reference to the past difference when the topic is current levels of ice?
 
#130
#130
Mtntrout said:
See, this is a non sequitor. The claim isn't that climate is static. The claim is that humans are strongly influencing the climate since the industrial revolution. You aren't disagreeing or arguing with climate change if your disagreement lies with a straw man.

Why would someone like Micheal Mann, who studies past climate via tree rings, argue climate never changed before? Think about it, your position doesn't even make any damn sense!
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What doesn't make any sense is restricting our emissions to the point of crippling our economy when our emissions are already dropping. If you truly believe CO2 emissions are a problem you'd be in China and India trying to get their emissions cut.
 
#131
#131
Sandvol said:
What doesn't make any sense is restricting our emissions to the point of crippling our economy when our emissions are already dropping. If you truly believe CO2 emissions are a problem you'd be in China and India trying to get their emissions cut.
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wat m8?

It's fascinating to watch the deniers ignore science and make up their own version of reality because it more closely aligns with a political agenda.
 
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#132
#132
Vol8188 said:
I get paid to teach 10 months a year (as do nearly all teachers) so I'm unaware of this funded vacation you speak of, but it sounds like pure ignorance on your part.

But why lengthen the current year when we could just go to school on good Friday?

When you lengthen the year it actually hurts the kids because the state mandated testing dates don't change. So we come for an extra day after testing and have nothing to do. It's a complete waste of time and tax payer money.

On top of that, you screw with people's vacations
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So you would infringe on a large numbers of people's religious beliefs to keep you from starting school 2 or 3 days earlier. Actually, your opinion really doesn't count as a state employee. The public should just tell you when to work.
 
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#133
#133
82_VOL_83 said:
So you would infringe on a large numbers of people's religious beliefs to keep you from starting school 2 or 3 days earlier. Actually, your opinion really doesn't count as a state employee. The public should just tell you when to work.
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"infringe on a large numbers of people's religious beliefs"

Back away from the ledge hoss, no one is saying you can't believe in your flavor of supernatural belief. Infringe means something different than what you must believe it means.
 
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#134
#134
Mtntrout said:
VolsNskins is saying there has been no warming for the last 10 years, thus no climate change. That is someone.

MG, what would it take for you to change your mind that man's activities are not causing significant and long-term changes to climate?
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What would it take to convince you that it isn't happening?
 
#136
#136
Septic said:
"infringe on a large numbers of people's religious beliefs"

Back away from the ledge hoss, no one is saying you can't believe in your flavor of supernatural belief. Infringe means something different than what you must believe it means.
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I asked a question earlier that you couldn't answer so I don't expect you to understand what I asked this time.
 
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#138
#138
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#139
#139
82_VOL_83 said:
So you would infringe on a large numbers of people's religious beliefs to keep you from starting school 2 or 3 days earlier. Actually, your opinion really doesn't count as a state employee. The public should just tell you when to work.
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Start the next year earlier? That's makes no sense. What does that accomplish?

And how are they being infringed upon? Do you believe jewish and muslim students have their rights infringed upon?

And you do understand that state employees are still members of the public, right?
 
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#140
#140
Mtntrout said:
No one claims the Earth is warmer now than millions of years ago. The evidence shows that it is the warmest in human history. It was certainly warmer during much of the last 300 million years, but probably not in the Quaternary, which is when we live and is the last 2.1 million years. Essentially it has never been warmer since glaciers existed.

It is difficult to understand how people can dismiss something without knowing what the claim actually is in context.
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So the last 2.1 million years doesn't encompass millions of years ago? If it's warmer now than any other time in human history (which you say is 2.1m) then it's warmer now than millions of years ago.
 
#141
#141
OrangeWayOfLife said:
Typical "crazy right wing conspiracy theorists denial loon" argument to anybody who disagrees with these people.
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It's the standard Alinskyite tactic.

I haven't heard anyone deny landing on the moon, evolution, or climate change. People who deny climate change probably didn't make it past the 5th grade.

Man-made global warming is the farce we point out. You guys need to knock it off with the doomsday bulls**** and the idea that sending more money to the pukes in Washington by stealing the fruits of another man's labor is going to control the weather.
 
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#142
#142
Gannon Goodson said:
It's the standard Alinskyite tactic.

I haven't heard anyone deny landing on the moon, evolution, or climate change. People who deny climate change probably didn't make it past the 5th grade.

Man-made global warming is the farce we point out. You guys need to knock it off with the doomsday bulls**** and the idea that sending more money to the pukes in Washington by stealing the fruits of another man's labor is going to control the weather.
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Not sure if directed at me, I would be categorized by the left and climate change evangelists as "right wing conspiracy theorist racist loon" if you've seen any of my posts.
Was just pointing out that this their guilt trip tactic to any one who opposes them.
 
#143
#143
OrangeWayOfLife said:
Not sure if directed at me, I would be categorized by the left and climate change evangelists as "right wing conspiracy theorist racist loon" if you've seen any of my posts.
Was just pointing out that this their guilt trip tactic to any one who opposes them.
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I was agreeing with you. Marginalizing your opponent with mockery and name-calling is the pastime of the radical Left. They're trying to shame us into believing in the abject stupidity of man-made global warming -- as if humans are really that damn special.

It's not working, so now they're calling for criminal prosecutions of "climate deniers."
 
#145
#145
Gannon Goodson said:
It's the standard Alinskyite tactic.

I haven't heard anyone deny landing on the moon, evolution, or climate change. People who deny climate change probably didn't make it past the 5th grade.

Man-made global warming is the farce we point out. You guys need to knock it off with the doomsday bulls**** and the idea that sending more money to the pukes in Washington by stealing the fruits of another man's labor is going to control the weather.
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You get it GG.
 
#146
#146
Gannon Goodson said:
It's the standard Alinskyite tactic.

I haven't heard anyone deny landing on the moon, evolution, or climate change. People who deny climate change probably didn't make it past the 5th grade.

Man-made global warming is the farce we point out. You guys need to knock it off with the doomsday bulls**** and the idea that sending more money to the pukes in Washington by stealing the fruits of another man's labor is going to control the weather.
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There are definitely some that post in the Politics forum who deny evolution.
 
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#147
#147
volinbham said:
Here's the simple question - is the difference in heating rates between the oceans and Antarctic specifically the same as it was in the 1955-1995 data set. If yes, how do you know. If no, why make a reference to the past difference when the topic is current levels of ice?
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I haven't been following your back-and-forth so SIAP, but a quick google turned up these recent relevant articles

Scientists suggest ocean warming in Southern Hemisphere underestimated
Antarctic seawater temperatures rising

Idk if they have exactly what you're after (haven't read them); pursue if you wish. SS has another blog post with the same claim including a figure from (Zhang 2007) that goes through 2004. But as the first article notes, coverage in the southern hemisphere changed significantly circa 2004 with the deployment of ARGO.

I doubt the ratio of heating rates between Antarctica and the global average is exactly the same as it was for 1955-1995. Regardless, the point was that Antarctic sea ice has grown for decades despite a warming world. Antarctic sea ice growth does not negate the observed increase in temperature. Antarctic sea ice growth does not undermine the observation that the continental ice sheets are melting and, perhaps, already doomed.
 
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