Another shooting...

#27
#27
lawgator1 said:
The number of cases where a civilian uses a gun to successfully thwart a criminal is infinitesimally small compared to the number of episodes where a civilian's gun is used in a murder or suicide.
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link?

Just so you know, most times when a crime is stopped by an armed citizen without having to resort to gun fire, it goes unreported.
 
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#31
#31
VOLatile said:
An off duty officer stopped a mad man. Good. Now where are the normal citizens stopping mass shootings?
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Now its your turn to post mass shooting where no one was around with a gun to stop them!...Oh ya .. the outcome not so good huh! Lots of carnage etc! As opposed to the ones I posted!
 
#32
#32
lawgator1 said:
The number of cases where a civilian uses a gun to successfully thwart a criminal is infinitesimally small compared to the number of episodes where a civilian's gun is used in a murder
Click to expand...

I am not sure why this matters. If 99,999 firearms are stolen from 99,999 law-abiding citizens and used to commit 99,999 homicides, and 1 law-abiding citizen used his firearm to thwart a homicide, then that one citizen was right to use his firearm, was right to possess a firearm, and was right to purchase a firearm.

If it is right to purchase and possess a firearm for that citizen, then it is right to purchase and possess a firearm for all citizens.

Theft is wrong in itself; homicide is wrong in itself. The possession of a firearm is not wrong in itself. In fact, the mere possession of a firearm is not wrong.

lawgator1 said:
or suicide.
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Why does this matter? My grandma shot and killed herself; my uncle stabbed himself. Both committed suicide. The method they chose is a non-issue (many individuals committed suicide before gun-powder was invented...many individuals, in fact, astronomically more individuals per capita, committed homicide before gun-powder was invented).

lawgator1 said:
More people with guns = more thugs end up with them. That is an absolute CERTAINTY.
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It is not an absolute certainty. There is no necessary logical correlation between an morally righteous individual possessing a firearm and a morally corrupt individual possessing a firearm.

You might argue that more firearms in society provides for more opportunities to steal firearms; however, the presence of more firearms in society also increases the risk associated with both stealing firearms and using them to do harm.
 
#33
#33
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Notice the theater he picked out from the several in the area, the one that did not allow guns. A sad as it is, easy targets.

When will folks learn?
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Did you eve read the article? He started by shooting up a restaurant where his ex worked, then the restaurant people ran into the theater and he followed. I'd venture to guess that the theater wasn't his main target, so the gun free zone wasn't planned.
 
#34
#34
lawgator1 said:
The number of cases where a civilian uses a gun to successfully thwart a criminal is infinitesimally small compared to the number of episodes where a civilian's gun is used in a murder or suicide.
Click to expand...

Suicide yes, murder..no. Why did you add suicide? Last I checked it was not a crime. Is this something else you want regulated?
 
#35
#35
lawgator1 said:
The number of cases where a civilian uses a gun to successfully thwart a criminal is infinitesimally small compared to the number of episodes where a civilian's gun is used in a murder or suicide.
Click to expand...

WRONG

Fact Sheet: Guns Save Lives

A. Guns save more lives than they take; prevent more
injuries than they inflict

* Guns
used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million times every year -- or about 6,850 times a day.1 This means that each year, firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest citizens than to take lives.

Of the 2.5 million times citizens use their guns to defend themselves every year, the overwhelming majority merely brandish their gun or fire a warning shot to scare off their attackers. Less than 8% of the time, a citizen will kill or wound his/her attacker

As many as 200,000 women use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse.4 * Even anti-gun Clinton researchers concede that guns are used 1.5 million times annually for self-defense.
 
#36
#36
lawgator1 said:
The number of cases where a civilian uses a gun to successfully thwart a criminal is infinitesimally small compared to the number of episodes where a civilian's gun is used in a murder or suicide.
Click to expand...

It only seems that way because media reports actual crimes, not the times when somebody saves the day.

If somebody with a gun thwarts a mass killing, there will be nothing to report! hello!!! use your little brain.
 
#37
#37
Completely agree with volmav and DEFEND. But I don't agree with presenting facts to liberals. It doesn't matter what facts you post, it will never make it through to their brainwashed minds.

To most (myself included) it seems like a VERY simple concept. Outlaw guns, and only outlaws will have guns! I know it's an old saying and you see it everywhere but it's the TRUTH. Why is it so hard to understand? You can round up all firearms you can find, and if a person wants to hurt another with a firearm they will get one. Guess what, drugs are illegal to but I can get anything I want in the next 2 minutes.

If I was a bad guy and I wanted to shoot up something. I damn sure would go to the town with strict gun laws, not the town where every law abiding citizen has a firearm.
 
#38
#38
America-is-violent-graph.png


The United States has more guns than any other country and leads the world in gun violence by a landslide. There seems to be a connection here...

Take a look at recent studies. Also, gun ownership has gone down over the past few years and gun violence goes down...hmm...

Also, more guns = more violence and death...hmm...

Also, states with stricter gun control have fewer deaths from gun-related violence...hmm...

Of course, conservatives will just dismiss scientific studies as they always do.

Six facts about guns, violence, and gun control
 
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#40
#40
KoachKrab127 said:
America-is-violent-graph.png


The United States has more guns than any other country and leads the world in gun violence by a landslide. There seems to be a connection here...

Take a look at recent studies. Also, gun ownership has gone down over the past few years and gun violence goes down...hmm...

Also, more guns = more violence and death...hmm...

Also, states with stricter gun control have fewer deaths from gun-related violence...hmm...

Of course, conservatives will just dismiss scientific studies as they always do.

Six facts about guns, violence, and gun control
Click to expand...

Care to explain how gun control laws have helped in Chicago? I guess my libertarian leaning brain is just not bright enough to connect the dots.
 
#41
#41
KoachKrab127 said:
America-is-violent-graph.png


The United States has more guns than any other country and leads the world in gun violence by a landslide. There seems to be a connection here...

Take a look at recent studies. Also, gun ownership has gone down over the past few years and gun violence goes down...hmm...

Also, more guns = more violence and death...hmm...

Also, states with stricter gun control have fewer deaths from gun-related violence...hmm...

Of course, conservatives will just dismiss scientific studies as they always do.

Six facts about guns, violence, and gun control
Click to expand...

Death is not the only factor in evaluating the safety of a society; the US actually has a much lower rate of violent crime than Canada, the UK, Australia, etc.
 
#42
#42
KoachKrab127 said:
America-is-violent-graph.png


The United States has more guns than any other country and leads the world in gun violence by a landslide. There seems to be a connection here...

Take a look at recent studies. Also, gun ownership has gone down over the past few years and gun violence goes down...hmm...

Also, more guns = more violence and death...hmm...

Also, states with stricter gun control have fewer deaths from gun-related violence...hmm...

Of course, conservatives will just dismiss scientific studies as they always do.

Six facts about guns, violence, and gun control
Click to expand...

Well this Independent minded fellow will dismiss this study as fos, as it is fos. Mind telling me how gun ownership has "went down" over the last few years? Americans have been stocking up since 08.
If anything gun shops should have a picture of Obama hanging in their shops, as salesman of the last few years.

Also, care to explain why in states that have concealed carry the violent crime rate is way down?

Truth is, violent crime has been declining over the last 20 years.

FBI — Crime Rates Fall Again
 
#44
#44
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Well this Independent minded fellow will dismiss this study as fos, as it is fos. Mind telling me how gun ownership has "went down" over the last few years? Americans have been stocking up since 08.
If anything gun shops should have a picture of Obama hanging in their shops, as salesman of the last few years.

Also, care to explain why in states that have concealed carry the violent crime rate is way down?

Truth is, violent crime has been declining over the last 20 years.

FBI — Crime Rates Fall Again
Click to expand...

I agree with you, but I need to point out that the reporting method changed about 20 years ago. The UCR was changed to only reflect the most serious crime committed during an incident. Example: If you are raped and murdered it would only be reported as a murder. TIBRS Tennessee Incident Based Reporting, and every state that provides data to the UCR do so in the same fashion. I think Clinton had it changed to help him show success when he added 100k cops during his presidency.
 
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