Another questionable quote from Butch today

[BigSteve09]

It beats the years of being Sit-at-Home-on-Your-Ass Champions.

Very fair :hi:

 

[VolinMC]

I think we have contended for the East but just not enough to win it. The end of last season was a shame and wrecked all the good things that happened to put us in contention.
As far as I'm concerned,this upcoming season is what I look at and the team will(imo) contend for the division and win it. I let last year go back after bowl games finished.
Also,another day,another Butch quote to gripe about for months and years. Should keep some of y'all busy for a while.

 

[BeardedVol]

The Vols contended for the SEC East championship last year til the last conference games for UT and UF. On Nov. 18, odds makers gave us the highest probability to win the East. Then, UF upset LSU in Baton Rouge in UF's last conference game, and we laid an egg at Vandy in our last game.

But, yep, because CBJ is so obsessed with keeping the narrative positive around UT football, he will dig up positives after a disappointing season and make dumb comments.

You got anything to back that statement up?

This article is dated November 10th:

Eight games means 256 different scenarios of results. In 179, or about 70 percent, Florida takes the East. The Gators are still the obvious favorite due to conference record and a tiebreaker over Kentucky. UK wins in 32 of these scenarios, Tennessee in 28, South Carolina in 17.

S&P+ odds also see the Gators as a clear favorite, with a 71.7 percent chance of one of those 179 Florida scenarios coming to fruition. Tennessee’s odds are still decent at 24.4 percent, while South Carolina is at 2.2 percent and Kentucky is at 1.7.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

How is it considered 'contending' for the SECe when you are out of the running before the end of October, with 3 conference games still on the schedule?

How are you out of the running before the end of October when TN wasn't eliminated until Florida upset LSU on November 19th? Had LSU won, TN goes to the SEC Championship game by beating Vanderbilt on November 26th.

 

[Behr]

no one looked at FL's schedule and thought they'd go 8-0 or 7-1. especially if we beat them.....and they didn't.

so, what we did (beating FL and GA), and didn't do (losing the aTm, Vandy and USCe games) had more to do with not winning the division than anything FL did or didn't do. we lost 3 very winnable games, after doing the yeoman's work of putting GA and FL aside.

you're harping on November, and using the end of October as your line of demarcation....yeah, once we lost to USCe and had 3 losses, things start to look a lot less rosy. but, sitting there 2-2 in the conf, Post Bama game, no one expected us to lose again. that's all i'm saying.

like i said, i'm not arguing the math. i get it.

Sometimes it's just not worth arguing past a certain point. If we had just beaten Fl in 15, and taken care of business with the scrubs last year, we are not having this conversation. But unfortunately that didn't happen. "Contended" and "momentum", who knew how much controversy they could cause between fans of the same team?:loco:

 

[BigSteve09]

Maybe some of you are correct, and it really is the interpretation of the word "contender" but it still feels like Butch uses the phrase "championship contender" liberally.

To be a championship contender, should you actually be contending for the championship in the actual national title game?

Or contending in the 4-team playoff?

Or contending for your conference championship in Atlanta?

Or is contending simply lining up with a football program week-to-week, dropping in and out of the top 25? If that's the case, how many "contenders" were there last season? 40? 50?

I will agree that we have gone from doormat program to a weekly contender. We have a shot to win every game that we play. We contend week to week. However, I don't see how anyone can consider a team with 4 regular season losses as a "championship contender."

 

[JettVol]

Butch's quotes sound like he is reading a motivational stereo instruction manual.

 

[Doberman]

Sometimes it's just not worth arguing past a certain point. If we had just beaten Fl in 15, and taken care of business with the scrubs last year, we are not having this conversation. But unfortunately that didn't happen. "Contended" and "momentum", who knew how much controversy they could cause between fans of the same team.:loco:

It's the Butch Jones effect.

Butch has done enough to think that he can get over the hump.

Butch has also done enough, the other way, to think that he can't get over the hump.

ardon:

 

[BeecherVol]

Many criticisms of CBJ on VN are the direct result of media quotes given without context on social media.

I'm not sure how you quantify "many" in separating who needs the media to make their opinion and who doesnt. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but how do you segregate the 2? Or does it even matter.

I 'll stand by my point. It matters very little, and this board is a prime example.

 

[BruisedOrange]

I'll be that, I guess. I made the thread, I'll own my stance.

Like your attitude, BigSteve! That's a healthy example for volnation to follow. :salute:

As for the topic, I'm in the "nothing to see here" crowd on this one. If Butch wasn't talking about winning championships, what would that say about him? We certainly wouldn't want him as coach if he wasn't regularly talking to players and recruits about winning championships, right?

Sure, it would be great to have a head coach who snapped off clever or memorable quotes every day. But no one in public life has ever done that. I love the quotes I read from Sec. of Defense "Mad Dog" Mattis... but that's maybe 20 memorable quotes accumulated over 40 years of service? Put a dozen microphones in front of him answering questions every day for a year and soon enough listeners would decide this living legend had become a parody of himself.

I still "contend" our roster has improved (in talent, grades, or maturity) every year under CBJ. One of these seasons, we'll get injuries to 3rd stringers instead of starters--and then everyone can judge what CBJ has been building.

 

[njvols]

I'd arguably agree w/ Butch...was afraid this was going to be one of those truly dumb statements (5*hearts)... They have been contending for championships. Had two poorly played late season games LY. Yes, I know they did happen, and we did lose the games. But, seven games into the season, we were sitting at 5-2, having beaten UGA and FL...in full contention of SEC E. If he keeps beating UF and UGA, I like our chances to get there sooner than later, regardless of having someone upset us every now and then.

 

[BeardedVol]

How are you out of the running before the end of October when TN wasn't eliminated until Florida upset LSU on November 19th? Had LSU won, TN goes to the SEC Championship game by beating Vanderbilt on November 26th.

If UT is in a position where they can win out, and they still need an opponent, whom they've already beaten(Florida), to lose two games in order to win the division, then UT is not a contender for the division at that point.

At that point the divisional race becomes Florida's to lose rather than ours to win.

 

[Vol til' I Fall]

Don't disagree with CBJ at all on this one. When he says "championships" he doesn't mean a national championship only. He's talking about the SEC East Championships, SEC Championships, etc.

It's a very accurate statement if you ask me because the Vols were in the hunt for an SEC East championship last season.

 

[VolunteerHillbilly]

Folks! Missouri is contending for the East in 2017. As of now they have as good a statistical chance to win it as anyone else based on the W/L record. Heard it here first.

 

[BeecherVol]

Don't disagree with CBJ at all on this one. When he says "championships" he doesn't mean a national championship only. He's talking about the SEC East Championships, SEC Championships, etc.

It's a very accurate statement if you ask me because the Vols were in the hunt for an SEC East championship last season.

Id leave it at "in the hunt for the east" if it's considered a championship.

The conference was decided well before that game was ever played. Regardless of who come out of the east.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

If UT is in a position where they can win out, and they still need an opponent, whom they've already beaten(Florida), to lose two games in order to win the division, then UT is not a contender for the division at that point.

At that point the divisional race becomes Florida's to lose rather than ours to win.

But you said that TN was "out of the running" before the end of October. So they're out of the running in October but would win the east as late as November 19th if the favorites win their games? Gotcha...

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Except when you're not. 3 games still on the schedule, and we need Florida to lose 2, even if we win out, in order to take the division is not being a contender. If we were talking about any other team besides Tennessee, you'd say the same.

Your timing is off.

When we had "3 games left on the schedule" (Ky, Mizzou, Vandy), the week of 6-12 November, we were at 3 losses in the SEC. At that same exact time, Florida had 2 SEC losses (to us and Arky).

Because we had tie-breaker advantage, we only needed them to lose one of their last two SEC games, and particularly the rescheduled game with LSU was looming large.

No one could know at that moment that we'd lay an egg with Vandy (set aside Florida winning their last two).

In fact, there was a brief period, one week, where we were 2 games behind Florida. That was the week after our loss to USCe and prior to their Arkansas loss. But that was the only week (Oct 30th to Nov 5th) where those exact requirements ruled the East race. Like I said, your timing was just off.

Fact is, we weren't totally out of the running for a trip to Atlanta until Florida surprised LSU (Nov 19th), the same weekend we beat Mizzou. Prior to that, we had lost control of our own destiny, but if LSU had won over the Gators, we'd be right back in tie-breaker advantage position, with only Vandy to go.

And who knows whether the Vandy outcome would've been favorable for us if Atlanta were riding on the game. Football is a game of emotion and motivation and teamwork.

BUT...doesn't matter. Florida upset LSU and we were out of the picture.

Here's hoping we take care of business in October better this season. Go Vols!

 

[volpreacher]

https://twitter.com/DanWolken/status/869602612399808512



Do you think Tennessee has competed for championships in the Jones Era?

some of you are about as bad as the media on every little thing Trump says. Give it a break please.

 

[chargervol]

It's weird how the people that hate Butch speak the most, hang on every word.

 

[BruisedOrange]

Maybe some of you are correct, and it really is the interpretation of the word "contender" but it still feels like Butch uses the phrase "championship contender" liberally.

To be a championship contender, should you actually be contending for the championship in the actual national title game?

Or is contending simply lining up with a football program week-to-week, dropping in and out of the top 25? If that's the case, how many "contenders" were there last season? 40? 50?

I will agree that we have gone from doormat program to a weekly contender. We have a shot to win every game that we play. We contend week to week. However, I don't see how anyone can consider a team with 4 regular season losses as a "championship contender."

It's an appropriate question. Lots of arguments go on here just because the same word means different things to different posters.

Disregarding polls, conference, and division champs, what if we assembled a list of "contenders" based on games that could have been won if one play for each team could be reversed? You know--if this pass hadn't been dropped, if that fumble had been recovered--those kinds of simple, performance/luck plays that happen regardless of who's coaching or who's winning. The list of "contenders" would be much longer than it appears at the end of the season.

Between injuries and funny bounces, here's a lot of dumb luck in every college football game. Life isn't fair, and football reflects that. It's part of what makes football a game that builds character.

 

[TNinSC]

Gatorbowl champion, outback bowl champion, and music city bowl champion. Those count for me

 

[BruisedOrange]

Folks! Missouri is contending for the East in 2017. As of now they have as good a statistical chance to win it as anyone else based on the W/L record. Heard it here first.

That's why the favorite month of the football season for Mizzou fans is June. :yahoo:
Right up until September Tiger tailgaters will be eating Fried Chicken con-Tenders.

 

[jakez4ut]

If UT is in a position where they can win out, and they still need an opponent, whom they've already beaten(Florida), to lose two games in order to win the division, then UT is not a contender for the division at that point.

At that point the divisional race becomes Florida's to lose rather than ours to win.

They didn't have to lose 2 games until we crapped the bed against SC. Up til then, contenders. After that, we move to "needs help".

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Can someone show me the quote that's questionable? You honestly have to be nit picking over every little word that comes out of Butch's mouth to make a thread like this one. You can criticize Butch for a lot of things but this is stupid.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

If UT is in a position where they can win out, and they still need an opponent, whom they've already beaten(Florida), to lose two games in order to win the division, then UT is not a contender for the division at that point.

At that point the divisional race becomes Florida's to lose rather than ours to win.

In 1998 TN had to win out AND Miami had to beat UCLA AND Texas A&M had to beat Kansas State for TN to get the Fiesta Bowl bid. So Tennessee was not a contender for the National Championship on 12/5/1998 when they only had Mississippi State left to beat.