And So It Begins….

#51
#51
you are ignoring the sport's history.

we had Jefferson Pilot broadcasts and there were still plenty of people watching. indeed most of the people who claim to love the sport would have started watching on Jefferson Pilot. It may not end up as good as it is today, but the sport would still a marketable, quality product.
Hehehe. You need look no further than someone like Joe Burrow. Deep, deep, strong Ohio roots, just made to go to Ohio State, until it didn't work and he did what he needed to do at LSU.

This game has ZERO to do with whatever loyalty you might want to attach to it and EVERYTHING to do with guys advancing their careers for the next level.

Burrow could've gone to Cinci or Miami (Ohio) or whatever and "been true to his Ohio roots" but there's nothing of that in today's big-time college ball. It's a business. Players are maximizing their profile AND NOW their earnings.

Trying to get it back to waving pennants and "I've got to play for State no matter what....." or whatever is not happening.

And no, most people won't watch a crappy team on Jefferson Pilot when there's quality football to be seen elsewhere. Teams like Yale, Harvard, even Army used to have MASSIVE national followings, but the quality of football isn't there most years and folks tune in to leagues with high quality football.

Eyeballs don't lie. People don't watch crappy sports.
 
#53
#53
Hehehe. You need look no further than someone like Joe Burrow. Deep, deep, strong Ohio roots, just made to go to Ohio State, until it didn't work and he did what he needed to do at LSU.

This game has ZERO to do with whatever loyalty you might want to attach to it and EVERYTHING to do with guys advancing their careers for the next level.

Burrow could've gone to Cinci or Miami (Ohio) or whatever and "been true to his Ohio roots" but there's nothing of that in today's big-time college ball. It's a business. Players are maximizing their profile AND NOW their earnings.

Trying to get it back to waving pennants and "I've got to play for State no matter what....." or whatever is not happening.

And no, most people won't watch a crappy team on Jefferson Pilot when there's quality football to be seen elsewhere. Teams like Yale, Harvard, even Army used to have MASSIVE national followings, but the quality of football isn't there most years and folks tune in to leagues with high quality football.

Eyeballs don't lie. People don't watch crappy sports.

I have a very hard time seeing how college football, a sport that only sends 1.5% of its players to the NFL, has "EVERYTHING" to do with guys advancing their careers to the next level. For a select few, certainly, but for the vast majority? Not at all.

The whole "waving pennants" and "I've got to play for State" is what distinguished college athletics from pro athletics. That's why I said I'm curious about how they intend to sell this, now that it's drifting from regional affiliation/rivalry and communities, etc.

And I would say the amount of people who tuned in to some seriously crappy Tennessee football for the past fifteen years proves that people do, in fact, watch crappy sports. Maybe not at the level that interests FOX or ABC to spend money on them, but people do participate and do watch. All that's really happened is that the TV networks are pushing all of that out, to make way for another NFL they can peddle to casual viewers. They've reached a critical mass with this whole SEC/BIG10 business, and they're happy to continue carving it up if they can make money doing so. So are many of the colleges as well, apparently.
 
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#54
#54
I have a very hard time seeing how college football, a sport that only sends 1.5% of its players to the NFL, has "EVERYTHING" to do with guys advancing their careers to the next level. For a select few, certainly, but for the vast majority? Not at all.

The whole "waving pennants" and "I've got to play for State" is what distinguished college athletics from pro athletics. That's why I said I'm curious about how they intend to sell this, now that it's drifting from regional affiliation/rivalry and communities, etc.

And I would say the amount of people who tuned in to some seriously crappy Tennessee football for the past fifteen years proves that people do, in fact, watch crappy sports. Maybe not at the level that interests FOX or ABC to spend money on them, but people do participate and do watch. All that's really happened is that the TV networks are pushing all of that out, to make way for another NFL they can peddle to casual viewers. They've reached a critical mass with this whole SEC/BIG10 business, and they're happy to continue carving it up if they can make money doing so. So are many of the colleges as well, apparently.
The vast majority of college athletes AREN'T fooling themselves that they'll go pro, BUT some states, like TN, are suing the NCAA out of existence for the advancement of what is essentially the pro conferences of the SEC and B1G.

The people in control, the people throttling the NCAA to lifelessness, are either former students or the states with lucrative university sports franchises.

This is why I'm saying schools like the SEC and B1G schools need to stop destroying college athletics and take their pro businesses away from the schools.

The only way to get college athletics back to being about school is for the big business entities to stop lumping themselves in the "we're just humble colleges with athletic teams" group.

C'mon, UT has $200M per year in athletic department revenue. It's a pro sports enterprise. Separate it from the school already and stop suing the NCAA to death because I PROMISE the next "college athletics organization" is going to look more like NFL/NBA than any of us will like.
 
#55
#55
Hehehe. You need look no further than someone like Joe Burrow. Deep, deep, strong Ohio roots, just made to go to Ohio State, until it didn't work and he did what he needed to do at LSU.

This game has ZERO to do with whatever loyalty you might want to attach to it and EVERYTHING to do with guys advancing their careers for the next level.

Burrow could've gone to Cinci or Miami (Ohio) or whatever and "been true to his Ohio roots" but there's nothing of that in today's big-time college ball. It's a business. Players are maximizing their profile AND NOW their earnings.

Trying to get it back to waving pennants and "I've got to play for State no matter what....." or whatever is not happening.

And no, most people won't watch a crappy team on Jefferson Pilot when there's quality football to be seen elsewhere. Teams like Yale, Harvard, even Army used to have MASSIVE national followings, but the quality of football isn't there most years and folks tune in to leagues with high quality football.

Eyeballs don't lie. People don't watch crappy sports.
they did. and I thought half this board was clamoring for true amateurism.

sounds like they want a professional product.....hmmmmm

of course there is no loyalty. the fans demanded professional level quality and are mad they are getting professional level results. I don't remember fans on here clamoring they wouldn't watch UT play unless there were local boys playing. We aren't very forgiving when a player isn't producing, we don't want him playing, we don't want him on the team, heck our fan base has resulted to death threats to our own players. None of that sounds like loyalty from the fans or acceptance of a amateurism.

I am fine with college shifting to some type of semi-pro/feeder NFL system.

I went to UT, there wasn't a single player, of any sport, in my degree program. what type of connection I am "supposed" to have with them? what type of connection have I supposed to have made that means I can't/won't follow UT sports any more if UT starts paying players directly?

The payment was happening. you guys aren't even upset that guys in the past got paid, and it was wink wink, but everyone knew. they haven't been amateurs for a long time. but now that guys are getting paid and there is no wink wink, its suddenly a problem that is fundamentally changing the sport?
 
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#56
#56
they did. and I thought half this board was clamoring for true amateurism.

sounds like they want a professional product.....hmmmmm

of course there is no loyalty. the fans demanded professional level quality and are mad they are getting professional level results. I don't remember fans on here clamoring they wouldn't watch UT play unless there were local boys playing. We aren't very forgiving when a player isn't producing, we don't want him playing, we don't want him on the team, heck our fan base has resulted to death threats to our own players. None of that sounds like loyalty from the fans or acceptance of a amateurism.

I am fine with college shifting to some type of semi-pro/feeder NFL system.

I went to UT, there wasn't a single player, of any sport, in my degree program. what type of connection I am "supposed" to have with them? what type of connection have I supposed to have made that means I can't/won't follow UT sports any more if UT starts paying players directly?

The payment was happening. you guys aren't even upset that guys in the past got paid, and it was wink wink, but everyone knew. they haven't been amateurs for a long time. but now that guys are getting paid and there is no wink wink, its suddenly a problem that is fundamentally changing the sport?
Enough eyeballs will not watch SEC football at the levels that bring in $50M per school if it sinks to the level "true amateurism" produces at places like TN Tech or even Vandy. If the SEC was full of Vandy level schools, there would be no huge TV contract.

We've seen it with the PAC and currently with the ACC, there's no big TV money for a conference with one or two elite teams. "True Amateurism" will never produce a multi-million dollar product.

As lousy as it is for UT tradition, the right thing to do for the elite programs is to either team with the NFL/NBA as a "Jr League" or minor league system.

Leave the lesser programs to actually be college kids playing college ball. NIL and transfers will still be an issue, money will still change hands, nothing will ever be "pure" and never was but it'll be better than trying to lump elite schools as "a college experience" when in reality it's guys hoping to get in the league.

Just let actual college athletics survive. Suing the NCAA out of existence without a plan of what replaces it is not good for those who'd like to be student-athletes.

That's my beef in this. Everything the schools via various state Attorney Generals are doing is making it impossible for the NCAA to remain viable. So what comes next? The courts have spoken on NIL and transfers but the state lawsuits make it closer and closer to athletes being employees........ and that will not be pretty for 90% or more of schools.
 
#57
#57
Enough eyeballs will not watch SEC football at the levels that bring in $50M per school if it sinks to the level "true amateurism" produces at places like TN Tech or even Vandy. If the SEC was full of Vandy level schools, there would be no huge TV contract.

We've seen it with the PAC and currently with the ACC, there's no big TV money for a conference with one or two elite teams. "True Amateurism" will never produce a multi-million dollar product.

As lousy as it is for UT tradition, the right thing to do for the elite programs is to either team with the NFL/NBA as a "Jr League" or minor league system.

Leave the lesser programs to actually be college kids playing college ball. NIL and transfers will still be an issue, money will still change hands, nothing will ever be "pure" and never was but it'll be better than trying to lump elite schools as "a college experience" when in reality it's guys hoping to get in the league.

Just let actual college athletics survive. Suing the NCAA out of existence without a plan of what replaces it is not good for those who'd like to be student-athletes.

That's my beef in this. Everything the schools via various state Attorney Generals are doing is making it impossible for the NCAA to remain viable. So what comes next? The courts have spoken on NIL and transfers but the state lawsuits make it closer and closer to athletes being employees........ and that will not be pretty for 90% or more of schools.
why would we care if football didn't bring in 50M to each school anymore? We are going back to amateurism.

the sport started off with zero TV funding. was good enough to spark an interest with TV, that started small. The sport was still good enough to grow. so on and so forth.
 
#58
#58
Did you all miss this from the article? This is just as big a deal as paying the players IMO. Can you imagine Georgia (or Tenn) with 150 players on football scholarships, etc..

“Further, another part of the settlement will remove the NCAA’s scholarship limits for each sport. For instance, Division I baseball teams are allowed 11.7 scholarships, which can be broken up and spread across the roster. By terms of the settlement, roster limits will be set for each sport, and schools will be able to offer as many scholarships as they’d like.”
This is huge for baseball. It's about time they did away with the restrictions.
 
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#59
#59
why would we care if football didn't bring in 50M to each school anymore? We are going back to amateurism.

the sport started off with zero TV funding. was good enough to spark an interest with TV, that started small. The sport was still good enough to grow. so on and so forth.
We may not care but Danny White and Randy Boyd care. It's a business for them and amateur athletics loses money for the schools.
 
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#60
#60
We may not care but Danny White and Randy Boyd care. It's a business for them and amateur athletics loses money for the schools.
yeah. which is why I have multiple times they will end up as club sports without any real support from the school except for branding.

that is what amateurism is.

you guys claiming to want the good ole days of amateurism don't know/realize/admit what you are actually saying.

the last system was wrong, corrupt, and fundamentally broken. There is a reason it is gone/going away. The positive impact on other sports doesn't negate the negative it was on football. it was socialism, and like all socialism it failed.
 
#61
#61
yeah. which is why I have multiple times they will end up as club sports without any real support from the school except for branding.

that is what amateurism is.

you guys claiming to want the good ole days of amateurism don't know/realize/admit what you are actually saying.

the last system was wrong, corrupt, and fundamentally broken. There is a reason it is gone/going away. The positive impact on other sports doesn't negate the negative it was on football. it was socialism, and like all socialism it failed.
The NCAA overreacted years ago to schools bringing in "ringers" being brought in to schools to and paid to make teams better. They pledged to "insure a fair game" while letting some schools with willing donors get rich via skirting rules, etc.

The NCAA never evolved. The rich schools, including UT, never wanted the NCAA to evolve because they have a lucrative big business. Now, seeing the game forced to go pro, the rich schools are hanging all the other schools out to dry and suing the NCAA out of existence.

Schools like UT don't care if other schools can't afford to pay players because we can. Whatever happens, rich schools will survive.

As club sports, most schools will eventually field one step above intramural teams in many sports and lots of sports will die without the financial support from that UT vs Cream Puff University check. Those games will disappear in the next iteration of college sports as the rich schools separate from the poor.

And yes, the NIL and transfer restrictions were obviously illegal. The enforcement of rules by the NCAA was obviously corrupt. The system failed.

My problem is players who got that scholly to a lesser university, who might not have been able to go otherwise, who maximized their potential athletically to better their life via education, who actually went to college....... and, oh yeah, played ball on scholarship and it WAS an opportunity for them.

I'm not sure that survives.
 
#62
#62
The NCAA overreacted years ago to schools bringing in "ringers" being brought in to schools to and paid to make teams better. They pledged to "insure a fair game" while letting some schools with willing donors get rich via skirting rules, etc.

The NCAA never evolved. The rich schools, including UT, never wanted the NCAA to evolve because they have a lucrative big business. Now, seeing the game forced to go pro, the rich schools are hanging all the other schools out to dry and suing the NCAA out of existence.

Schools like UT don't care if other schools can't afford to pay players because we can. Whatever happens, rich schools will survive.

As club sports, most schools will eventually field one step above intramural teams in many sports and lots of sports will die without the financial support from that UT vs Cream Puff University check. Those games will disappear in the next iteration of college sports as the rich schools separate from the poor.

And yes, the NIL and transfer restrictions were obviously illegal. The enforcement of rules by the NCAA was obviously corrupt. The system failed.

My problem is players who got that scholly to a lesser university, who might not have been able to go otherwise, who maximized their potential athletically to better their life via education, who actually went to college....... and, oh yeah, played ball on scholarship and it WAS an opportunity for them.

I'm not sure that survives.
thats the problem with socialism. it doesn't survive on its own or in a fair market. and yes those who depended on it will be left without now that the free ride is gone. I doubt too many fans will actually be torn up about it. you know how I know? they won't be contributing to those guys college fund. they won't stop watching whatever college football becomes to instead go support the local college sports in person.

if the players still want to go to college they are welcome to, nothing is stopping them. they can still earn other scholarships. they just won't be profiting off of someone else's skill/branding. thats real amateurism. Not everyone should be going to college. this helps the universities refocus their emphasis on students who actually care about being students, instead of catering to a bunch of athletes who have no real interest in being there.
 
#63
#63
thats the problem with socialism. it doesn't survive on its own or in a fair market. and yes those who depended on it will be left without now that the free ride is gone. I doubt too many fans will actually be torn up about it. you know how I know? they won't be contributing to those guys college fund. they won't stop watching whatever college football becomes to instead go support the local college sports in person.

if the players still want to go to college they are welcome to, nothing is stopping them. they can still earn other scholarships. they just won't be profiting off of someone else's skill/branding. thats real amateurism. Not everyone should be going to college. this helps the universities refocus their emphasis on students who actually care about being students, instead of catering to a bunch of athletes who have no real interest in being there.
I think a lot more athletes, since few schools are elite, were primarily going to school and, like any kid on any scholarship, grateful for the help.

I can see the value of sports and education, just as in high school and below, for building a sense of a school community and social bonding.

In a nostalgic sense, like kids working hard to get an academic scholarship, those who work hard to get an athletic scholarship bring something to the school. However, the massive overemphasis of the value of sports vs the mission of a college to educate is unbelievable at elite schools.

It's an "unwritten code" that players who are elite and are treated like royalty on campus very rarely speak about how ridiculously "un-college student" their experience has become.

But that's not most scholarship athletes because most schools aren't like the SEC or B1G. Lots of scholarship athletes bust their hump in practice, go to classes and value the education they get, represent their schools reasonably, etc.

There's more of fair trade there, as there is with academic scholarships, where the student brings their gifts to the school and receives the educational opportunity in return. They aren't exploited to make millions nor are they particularly "deified" by the school for their talents.

A whole lot of this belongs at the feet of the NCAA and school admins who for generations gleefully let athletics overshadow education for athletes to make a helluva lot of money off them.
 
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#64
#64
The vast majority of college athletes AREN'T fooling themselves that they'll go pro, BUT some states, like TN, are suing the NCAA out of existence for the advancement of what is essentially the pro conferences of the SEC and B1G.

The people in control, the people throttling the NCAA to lifelessness, are either former students or the states with lucrative university sports franchises.

This is why I'm saying schools like the SEC and B1G schools need to stop destroying college athletics and take their pro businesses away from the schools.

The only way to get college athletics back to being about school is for the big business entities to stop lumping themselves in the "we're just humble colleges with athletic teams" group.

C'mon, UT has $200M per year in athletic department revenue. It's a pro sports enterprise. Separate it from the school already and stop suing the NCAA to death because I PROMISE the next "college athletics organization" is going to look more like NFL/NBA than any of us will like.
They aren't destroying college athletics.
The NCAA's arrogance, entitlement, exploitation, and stupidity is changing the model, but nothing except their illegal model is being destroyed.
 
#65
#65
Enough eyeballs will not watch SEC football at the levels that bring in $50M per school if it sinks to the level "true amateurism" produces at places like TN Tech or even Vandy. If the SEC was full of Vandy level schools, there would be no huge TV contract.

We've seen it with the PAC and currently with the ACC, there's no big TV money for a conference with one or two elite teams. "True Amateurism" will never produce a multi-million dollar product.

As lousy as it is for UT tradition, the right thing to do for the elite programs is to either team with the NFL/NBA as a "Jr League" or minor league system.

Leave the lesser programs to actually be college kids playing college ball. NIL and transfers will still be an issue, money will still change hands, nothing will ever be "pure" and never was but it'll be better than trying to lump elite schools as "a college experience" when in reality it's guys hoping to get in the league.

Just let actual college athletics survive. Suing the NCAA out of existence without a plan of what replaces it is not good for those who'd like to be student-athletes.

That's my beef in this. Everything the schools via various state Attorney Generals are doing is making it impossible for the NCAA to remain viable. So what comes next? The courts have spoken on NIL and transfers but the state lawsuits make it closer and closer to athletes being employees........ and that will not be pretty for 90% or more of schools.
If you don't think the conferences have a backup plan to replace the NCAA, I have a toweri in Paris for sale at rock bottom prices.
 
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#66
#66
The vast majority of college athletes AREN'T fooling themselves that they'll go pro, BUT some states, like TN, are suing the NCAA out of existence for the advancement of what is essentially the pro conferences of the SEC and B1G.

The people in control, the people throttling the NCAA to lifelessness, are either former students or the states with lucrative university sports franchises.

This is why I'm saying schools like the SEC and B1G schools need to stop destroying college athletics and take their pro businesses away from the schools.

The only way to get college athletics back to being about school is for the big business entities to stop lumping themselves in the "we're just humble colleges with athletic teams" group.

C'mon, UT has $200M per year in athletic department revenue. It's a pro sports enterprise. Separate it from the school already and stop suing the NCAA to death because I PROMISE the next "college athletics organization" is going to look more like NFL/NBA than any of us will like.
The school administrators and AD's aren't stupid. They aren't going to separate the revenue sports from the schools.
 
#67
#67
Well technically just another domino but here’s the very thing we’ve been debating for months. Players will be employees of and paid by the university. As the great Ric Flair said one time: “ You might not like it but you need to learn to live with it…..”


I mentioned it 10+ years ago. People got upset with me, but they once it got into the big money there was no avoiding what was coming.

Hint, a good portion of these players were already employees. Much of the NCAA and school administrators should be behind bars, but that won't happen.
 
#69
#69
Interesting read. Glad I got to see college sports in a different era. What's about to happen won't look anything like what I will remember.

What I'll be interested in is what happens with the sports that don't generate income or not enough to pay their way....men's tennis, women's sports, etc. This will be a business with employees, collective bargaining and caps. Some D1 football programs will struggle in this new world. Suspect several will bow out of some major sports. This notion of title IX will be kind of hard to rationalize. The minor, non revenue producing sports might go the way of the dodo bird. This looks like we're headed to an NFL/NBA type system. Will the budget allow funding of these minor sports? Will men's major sports simply break off and become their own entity? How will that work with colleges? How will it fly in court when women get pissed that they aren't getting the same kind of money or their support from the college and men's income dries up? Then there's the common fan. It's already ridiculously expensive to get season tickets and attend games. Cable, streaming services and the like are also taking a huge bite of the fans apple. With our inflation and economy, a lot of folks are having to make hard decisions about their money. At some point, a tipping point is reached. Happened with me and professional sports. Haven't watched a pro contest in a long, long time. Probably Mannings last season. Even longer for the other pro sports. Yeah, this is gonna be interesting. Wanna bet the last thing considered is the common fan? Yeah, me too.
I have learned in the last 5-10 years that there is more to life than college athletics and am much happier for it. As a multi decades season ticket holder I attended the Alabama game in 22 and not one game in 23. Will probably watch from afar in the future.
 
#70
#70
The vast majority of college athletes AREN'T fooling themselves that they'll go pro, BUT some states, like TN, are suing the NCAA out of existence for the advancement of what is essentially the pro conferences of the SEC and B1G.

The people in control, the people throttling the NCAA to lifelessness, are either former students or the states with lucrative university sports franchises.

This is why I'm saying schools like the SEC and B1G schools need to stop destroying college athletics and take their pro businesses away from the schools.

The only way to get college athletics back to being about school is for the big business entities to stop lumping themselves in the "we're just humble colleges with athletic teams" group.

C'mon, UT has $200M per year in athletic department revenue. It's a pro sports enterprise. Separate it from the school already and stop suing the NCAA to death because I PROMISE the next "college athletics organization" is going to look more like NFL/NBA than any of us will like.
The NCAA's entire sports model is illegal. So says SCOTUS Justice Kavanaugh in his NCAA vs Alston opinion. They have exploited college athletes for years, and now they're getting appropriate pushback from the athletes and the courts.

Your conspiracy theory doesn't hold water.

This isn't about the SEC and BIG
The O'Bannon case was filed in California when UCLA was a longstanding PAC member.

The House case was filed by an Arizona State swimmer when they school was a PAC member.

The Carter case started on behalf of a Duke football player.

The Bush vs NCAA and USC vs NCAA cases are PAC related.

16 other states have joined Ohio in the federal case against the NCAA about athlete transfers.

Feel free to stop trying to carry water in a collander.
 
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#72
#72
The revenue-sharing deals with athletes will be classified as NIL agreements, with schools providing funds for the use and broadcast of a players’ name, image and likeness — a concept at the heart of the House case. Other non-NIL forms of payments are an option.

Though plenty of questions linger around this new system, institutions will be permitted to share with athletes as much as $22 million per year. That figure, still very much in flux, was derived from 22% of an average of power conference revenues. The cap includes exceptions as a combined $5 million in Alston-related money and additional scholarships can be counted toward the total.
They are trying to call this "not things" like "not pay for play" but it doesn't seem too meaningful.

Anyway, more power to 'em. Glad it ain't my money.
 
#74
#74
The vast majority of college athletes AREN'T fooling themselves that they'll go pro, BUT some states, like TN, are suing the NCAA out of existence for the advancement of what is essentially the pro conferences of the SEC and B1G.

The people in control, the people throttling the NCAA to lifelessness, are either former students or the states with lucrative university sports franchises.

This is why I'm saying schools like the SEC and B1G schools need to stop destroying college athletics and take their pro businesses away from the schools.

The only way to get college athletics back to being about school is for the big business entities to stop lumping themselves in the "we're just humble colleges with athletic teams" group.

C'mon, UT has $200M per year in athletic department revenue. It's a pro sports enterprise. Separate it from the school already and stop suing the NCAA to death because I PROMISE the next "college athletics organization" is going to look more like NFL/NBA than any of us will like.
But there are a lot of high school athletes who believe they will be good enough in college to play in the pros. That is why recruiting ( paying ) high school players will require a lot of money.
 
#75
#75
But there are a lot of high school athletes who believe they will be good enough in college to play in the pros. That is why recruiting ( paying ) high school players will require a lot of money.
They can demand it, but it doesn't mean the money will be there.

we will see a downward correction in a couple years. the small schools won't be able to pay much at all, and once the bottom drops, it will drag down the rest. it will take time, there will be outliers, but the current money isn't sustainable, and thus it will fix itself.

sure some schools will still be able to buy whoever, but that is going to be pretty limited. and you will see schools thinking about the cost benefits, and opportunity costs associated with high dollar kids. especially if they know that kid is just going to transfer out, why pay him alot to sit on the bench?
 

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