And people thought Fulmer had no control....

[Rasputin_Vol]

Like I said, it's not about everyone's doing it, it's that it happens to everyone else as well. There' a crowd around here though that doesn't see the everywhere else and seems to think the sky is falling on Fulmer and he can't control the players.

You just think it is coincidental that as soon as we have a staff turnover, we start seeing these problems pop up again?

 

[GAVol]

The "everybody else is doing it" argument was weak in 3rd grade and it is weak now.

. . . and that's not the point at all. We all agree that there are discipline issues in Knoxville right now. But the point is that the discipline issues are just as symptomatic of society in general as they are CPF running a loose ship. That doesn't get CPF off the hook, but it's still a fact of life.

 

[GAVol]

You just think it is coincidental that as soon as we have a staff turnover, we start seeing these problems pop up again?

That's a little too convenient an explanation IMO. It definitely didn't matter to Lamarcus Coker.

 

[justingroves]

That's a little too convenient an explanation IMO. It definitely didn't matter to Lamarcus Coker.

Or Arian Foster, David Holbert or Antonio Wardlow.

Or Roshaun Fellows.

 

[volfanbill]

where does Nebraska, Indiana and USC stand in the "Fulmer Cup"? I'm sorry to bring such a stupid topic up, but last i checked according to those stats, Tennessee was the second worst school for team related issues. I know it happens everywhere else, but it certainly seems it is still happening more often on Rocky Top.

 

[rexvol]

. . . and that's not the point at all. We all agree that there are discipline issues in Knoxville right now. But the point is that the discipline issues are just as symptomatic of society in general as they are CPF running a loose ship. That doesn't get CPF off the hook, but it's still a fact of life.

sure society has the same issues, but the Hill seems to be the epicenter. If it were the occasional isolated incident, but it's the proliferation.

 

[utvolpj]

where does Nebraska, Indiana and USC stand in the "Fulmer Cup"? I'm sorry to bring such a stupid topic up, but last i checked according to those stats, Tennessee was the second worst school for team related issues. I know it happens everywhere else, but it certainly seems it is still happening more often on Rocky Top.

IMO you really have to compare the severity of the crimes to get an accurate picture. 2-3 public infox and underage consumption vs felony armed robbery or sexual assault, take your pick

 

[volfanbill]

IMO you really have to compare the severity of the crimes to get an accurate picture. 2-3 public infox and underage consumption vs felony armed robbery or sexual assault, take your pick

I agree with that to a degree, but I still think the sheer number of incidents shows that there is an issue that needs to be fixed within the program.

 

[sjt18]

Fourth weekend and counting without a problem, right? Maybe the issue has been addressed to some degree or another.

 

[sjt18]

Lamarcus coker got more chances than a non starter would have.

Please cite a reliable source that says he got more than 4 chances. Maybe he did. Maybe there were extenuating circumstances that none of us know about... did you read my post? There may be a little latitude in the policy but do you really, really believe that he gets more chances than the policy allows on Fulmer's say so after the 2005 debacle?

Surely you are smarter than that.

As mentioned, he wasn't a starter.

Fellows we now know would have been a starter. It is somewhat likely that Wardlow would have been the nickel back or at worst the third S. Davis was in the mix to start.

One james banks also comes to mind.

And as I specifically acknowledged, CPF and the administration didn't do a good job in the years leading up to 2005.


Do you have nothing else? I'm looking for a real, verifiable case where CPF just absolutely ignored policy to favor a starter or valuable player over a nobody.

Within the last year, I think there have been 5 players dismissed... FOUR OF THEM WERE IN THE TWO DEEP WHEN THEY WERE DISMISSED. One was a walk-on caught dealing drugs.

That sounds pretty consistent to me.

 

[superdave1984]

And this affects UT how?

 

[utmba93]

Please cite a reliable source that says he got more than 4 chances. Maybe he did. Maybe there were extenuating circumstances that none of us know about... did you read my post? There may be a little latitude in the policy but do you really, really believe that he gets more chances than the policy allows on Fulmer's say so after the 2005 debacle?

Surely you are smarter than that.

As mentioned, he wasn't a starter.

Fellows we now know would have been a starter. It is somewhat likely that Wardlow would have been the nickel back or at worst the third S. Davis was in the mix to start.
And as I specifically acknowledged, CPF and the administration didn't do a good job in the years leading up to 2005.


Do you have nothing else? I'm looking for a real, verifiable case where CPF just absolutely ignored policy to favor a starter or valuable player over a nobody.

Within the last year, I think there have been 5 players dismissed... FOUR OF THEM WERE IN THE TWO DEEP WHEN THEY WERE DISMISSED. One was a walk-on caught dealing drugs.

That sounds pretty consistent to me.

Great post. Followed by... silence! That seems revealing!

opcorn:

 

[Cartervol]

Please cite a reliable source that says he got more than 4 chances. Maybe he did. Maybe there were extenuating circumstances that none of us know about... did you read my post? There may be a little latitude in the policy but do you really, really believe that he gets more chances than the policy allows on Fulmer's say so after the 2005 debacle?

Surely you are smarter than that.

As mentioned, he wasn't a starter.

Fellows we now know would have been a starter. It is somewhat likely that Wardlow would have been the nickel back or at worst the third S. Davis was in the mix to start.
And as I specifically acknowledged, CPF and the administration didn't do a good job in the years leading up to 2005.


Do you have nothing else? I'm looking for a real, verifiable case where CPF just absolutely ignored policy to favor a starter or valuable player over a nobody.
Within the last year, I think there have been 5 players dismissed... FOUR OF THEM WERE IN THE TWO DEEP WHEN THEY WERE DISMISSED. One was a walk-on caught dealing drugs.

That sounds pretty consistent to me.

Lamarcus coker was our best running back at the time. Whether arian (cement shoes) foster was the starter or not.Four chances is that policy? It sounds like a loose policy then. Smoking pot should be tolerated twice then its adios. I'am not going to set here and argue about phil fulmer with you any more. If you think he is the right guy for the job i don't care. I know if he was coaching anywhere else he'd would have been sent packing along time ago. Oh the reason why there was silence is because i have a job that doesn't plant my arse behind a desk with access to a computer all day. If your happy with phil and his loosey goosey policy's then great. You'll enjoy more of the same in years to come.

Quit trying to contradict everything i say also its annoying. You bring up no valid point just a one sided opinion.

In reference to the statement above in bold. Do you really think that if daddy colquitt hadn't made a huge contribution to the university that brittin would still only be suspended rather than gone for good.
Surely your smarter than that.

 

[justingroves]

Lamarcus coker was our best running back at the time. Whether arian (cement shoes) foster was the starter or not.Four chances is that policy? It sounds like a loose policy then. Smoking pot should be tolerated twice then its adios. I'am not going to set here and argue about phil fulmer with you any more. If you think he is the right guy for the job i don't care. I know if he was coaching anywhere else he'd would have been sent packing along time ago. Oh the reason why there was silence is because i have a job that doesn't plant my arse behind a desk with access to a computer all day. If your happy with phil and his loosey goosey policy's then great. You'll enjoy more of the same in years to come.

Quit trying to contradict everything i say also its annoying. You bring up no valid point just a one sided opinion.

In reference to the statement above in bold. Do you really think that if daddy colquitt hadn't made a huge contribution to the university that brittin would still only be suspended rather than gone for good.
Surely your smarter than that.

The SEC's policy is 4 failed drug tests then you're done. Not that it makes it right or wrong, just saying every team in the SEC goes by that rule.

 

[therealUT]

I agree with that to a degree, but I still think the sheer number of incidents shows that there is an issue that needs to be fixed within the program.

Maybe Phil is just a staunch libertarian so has a hard time putting out the message to these kids that they should not be out drinking. Also, there is an x factor that never seems to be discussed...the Knoxville PD. Absolutely the worst department I have ever had to deal with. They are certainly, in my opinion, out to make as many citizens 'criminals' opposed to truly serving the community and trying to make it safer.

 

[justingroves]

Maybe Phil is just a staunch libertarian so has a hard time putting out the message to these kids that they should not be out drinking. Also, there is an x factor that never seems to be discussed...the Knoxville PD. Absolutely the worst department I have ever had to deal with. They are certainly, in my opinion, out to make as many citizens 'criminals' opposed to truly serving the community and trying to make it safer.

Be careful, LG will accuse you of being a youngster that had a party broken up by the KPD.

The KPD is God-awful IMO.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Maybe Phil is just a staunch libertarian so has a hard time putting out the message to these kids that they should not be out drinking. Also, there is an x factor that never seems to be discussed...the Knoxville PD. Absolutely the worst department I have ever had to deal with. They are certainly, in my opinion, out to make as many citizens 'criminals' opposed to truly serving the community and trying to make it safer.

Let me hear you try to blame KPD for Britton Colquitt's drinking. Are cops pouring beers down his throat?

This should be interesting.

 

[CATFANtrappedinVolHelll]

Look at the front page of SI College Football.

SI.com - NCAA Football

Nebraska has an OL accused of Sexual Assault.

A Trojan recruit arrested in armed robbery.

Indiana's starting QB suspended.

I guess people shouldn't be so quick to point the finger at us having problems when it's clear that other's have the same issues as well. Some people it seems need to expand their views of college football past UT Football and Knoxville to understand that problems happen everywhere. Our problems are NOTHING compared to armed robbery and Sexual Assault.

Just wanted to take a minute to help you out a bit. You may not want to crow about the Nebraska story very loud. A simple review of the court records in Knoxville in the state of Tennessee would reveal that roughly 38% of UT football players past and present have a number assigned to their name at the Tennessee Department of Corrections. Just thought I'd let you know...

BTW, we'll see you afternoon in Catlanta to finish what we started last week. Go Big Blue!

 

[tvolsfan]

Just wanted to take a minute to help you out a bit. You may not want to crow about the Nebraska story very loud. A simple review of the court records in Knoxville in the state of Tennessee would reveal that roughly 38% of UT football players past and present have a number assigned to their name at the Tennessee Department of Corrections. Just thought I'd let you know...

BTW, we'll see you afternoon in Catlanta to finish what we started last week. Go Big Blue!

Where's Catlanta? Is it on the way to the SEC tournament?

 

[utvolpj]

Just wanted to take a minute to help you out a bit. You may not want to crow about the Nebraska story very loud. A simple review of the court records in Knoxville in the state of Tennessee would reveal that roughly 38% of UT football players past and present have a number assigned to their name at the Tennessee Department of Corrections. Just thought I'd let you know...

BTW, we'll see you afternoon in Catlanta to finish what we started last week. Go Big Blue!

A KY fan bad at math. Shocking :ermm:

 

[tim]

Truth of the matter is the responsibility of the actions of these young men getting in trouble lies directly on their own shoulders. Why we continue to lay blame on a middle aged man baffles me. Did any of you play sports and do things that, if caught, would have landed you in trouble? These kids come to school with a host of issues that a coach can only attempt to correct.

 

[VOLitant]

Coaches are no more responsible for player off field behavior than the Dean is for the behavior of other scholarship students. Players/students are responsible for their own behavior. You can give these guys the opportunity of a lifetime but you can't change their IQ level.

 

[sjt18]

Four chances is that policy? It sounds like a loose policy then.

Wait. You are here criticizing CPF for not enforcing the policy correctly and playing favorites... and you don't even know what the policy says that CPF supposedly didn't apply? So your stuff is supposed to pass for a well thought out, informed post while you say I didn't make a point?

I'd say your exposed ignorance of what you were discussing is a pretty strong point.

I'am not going to set here and argue about phil fulmer with you any more. If you think he is the right guy for the job i don't care.

That wasn't the point of this conversation at all though was it? This is about whether he applied the policy fairly... not whether he's a great coach otherwise.

When proven wrong here... I've said so. Others have done so as well. Why can't you just say, "woops, I got ahead of myself"? You don't have to think he's a great coach... but if you post ignorant non-sense you should expect people to contradict you.

I know if he was coaching anywhere else he'd would have been sent packing along time ago.

Like you apparently knew that he was playing favorites without actually knowing what you were talking about?

Oh the reason why there was silence is because i have a job that doesn't plant my arse behind a desk with access to a computer all day.

Congratulations?

If your happy with phil and his loosey goosey policy's then great. You'll enjoy more of the same in years to come.

Have you learned absolutely nothing? CPF doesn't write the policies. He enforces them.

Since you have a job... hopefully you know at least something about policy. If your workplace says an employee gets 5 absences then should be fired then HOPEFULLY you know that a boss that fires one person at 2 absences and another that he liked only after 7... is headed for a lawsuit or at least the unemployment line.

It applies to coaches too. They enforce the policy under MH's direction... they don't write it and then do whatever they want.

IMO, CPF had too much latitude before 2005 but does not appear to have that now.

Quit trying to contradict everything i say also its annoying. You bring up no valid point just a one sided opinion.

Quit posting things in ignorance... it is very annoying. You brought up no valid points just one-sided, kneejerk negative opinion.

In reference to the statement above in bold. Do you really think that if daddy colquitt hadn't made a huge contribution to the university that brittin would still only be suspended rather than gone for good.
Surely your smarter than that.

I have absolutely, positively no idea. I already said that IMO he should be gone then (maybe you missed the point since you didn't think I had any) gave a possible rationale for keeping him. Do you have any inside knowledge of the situation or conversations you'd like to share... or are you just carping again?

 

[Cartervol]

Wait. You are here criticizing CPF for not enforcing the policy correctly and playing favorites... and you don't even know what the policy says that CPF supposedly didn't apply? So your stuff is supposed to pass for a well thought out, informed post while you say I didn't make a point?

I'd say your exposed ignorance of what you were discussing is a pretty strong point. That wasn't the point of this conversation at all though was it? This is about whether he applied the policy fairly... not whether he's a great coach otherwise.

When proven wrong here... I've said so. Others have done so as well. Why can't you just say, "woops, I got ahead of myself"? You don't have to think he's a great coach... but if you post ignorant non-sense you should expect people to contradict you.

Like you apparently knew that he was playing favorites without actually knowing what you were talking about? Congratulations? Have you learned absolutely nothing? CPF doesn't write the policies. He enforces them.

Since you have a job... hopefully you know at least something about policy. If your workplace says an employee gets 5 absences then should be fired then HOPEFULLY you know that a boss that fires one person at 2 absences and another that he liked only after 7... is headed for a lawsuit or at least the unemployment line.

It applies to coaches too. They enforce the policy under MH's direction... they don't write it and then do whatever they want.

IMO, CPF had too much latitude before 2005 but does not appear to have that now.

Quit posting things in ignorance... it is very annoying. You brought up no valid points just one-sided, kneejerk negative opinion.



I have absolutely, positively no idea. I already said that IMO he should be gone then (maybe you missed the point since you didn't think I had any) gave a possible rationale for keeping him. Do you have any inside knowledge of the situation or conversations you'd like to share... or are you just carping again?

No i don't have any inside information. I have as much information on the subject as you do. Colquitt has had several run-ins i believe five now. My opinion of phil is just that a opinion. Over the year i've watched phil play players infront of other guys that should be starting just because they're seniors. Last year was a prime example. Karl was clearly a weak link and yet he continued to play every game.
Also for some reason maybe by mistake but i doubt it.
The better players seem to get more tolerance than guys who don't contribute more. Is this fact maybe not but from what i have observed it sure seems to be happening quite often.
Thats what i meant when i said he plays favorites.

As far as company policy,well i run my own business and i wouldn't allow something to happen more than twice and that would be the end of that. But i realize were talking about kids here between the ages of 18-22 years old. Maybe they need more chances or maybe they don't.

I don't support phil nor have i since the early 2000's. The job he has done for what he is getting paid hasn't been very good.
There is a level of respect you should have for your coach to not get yourself in these situations. Apparently the players have lost alot of respect for phil. When trooper resigned the outcry from players was alarming.

All i want are results as a fan and thats all i'am a fan. We have been getting close to having good years only for it to end in disappointment. That sucks. No beating a mediocre wisconsin team in the outhouse bowl wasn't a great thing.

Phil is a loose diciplinarian apparently thats why these kids aren't afraid to got out and get in trouble,they know they wil get a second chance if that happens.

 

[utmba93]

I don't support phil nor have i since the early 2000's.

Surely you didn't give up on Phil after he failed to win back to back national championships.

Be fair... the real issues started in 2005. And, if the Vols had not carried a preseason 2 or 3 ranking, maybe 2005 wouldn't have felt so disappointing.

The '01 loss to LSU in the SECCG, at the time, was not a clear indicator that a season like '05 was on the horizon. Without 2005, the Negavol argument is much, much weaker. You can't omit 05, but you surely can't omit 98 either (they are the respective low and high of the CPF years).

In any case, if you gave up on the Vols in the early 2000's, why not just give up altogether and start pointing out all the losses Urban Meyer has had on the Gator Boards; or that Les Miles has yet to win with his own kids on the LSU boards; or that Saban first season was a disaster on the bammer boards.

Phil recruits some kids from very rough socio-economic backgrounds and helps them learn their way to becoming better citizens. I'm glad he doesn't throw all those kids under the bus as many here want to do so badly. Personally, I'd rather throw some silver-spooned guy like Adams under the bus for not recognizing that he owes his entire career to the Vols and Vol fans. I'm still waiting for Adams to publish his apology for having disgraced the Knoxville community.