Analytic Approach to QB Situation

[Titans4Vols]

Perhaps he wouldn't have needed it if we hadn't run it 4 times at the goal line and been stopped. I was sitting there calling for a bootleg pass to a fullback, but never got it.

Play calling is iffy there, but do you trust Crompton in that situation? getting stopped at the 1 is better than throwing a pick.

Even I can expect Crompton to make that throw, but after the day he had, I don't blame Kiffin for having a lack of confidence in him.

 

[crusse10]

Play calling is iffy there, but do you trust Crompton in that situation? getting stopped at the 1 is better than throwing a pick.

Even I can expect Crompton to make that throw, but after the day he had, I don't blame Kiffin for having a lack of confidence in him.

Yes. You said it yourself, he can only throw to people out of the backfield.
He threw a great pass against Florida to Jones for a TD. Luckily for his stats, Jones was standing out of bounds.

 

[crusse10]

Play calling is iffy there, but do you trust Crompton in that situation? getting stopped at the 1 is better than throwing a pick.

Even I can expect Crompton to make that throw, but after the day he had, I don't blame Kiffin for having a lack of confidence in him.

On that drive he was 2 for 2 for 28 yards.
The drive before that he was 4 for 6 for 19 yards.

He had the short passes down. He was getting those accurately.

(don't forget that others took blame for 2 of the INTs...so Kiffin wasn't placing the blame for them on Crompton anyway)

 

[Titans4Vols]

Yes. You said it yourself, he can only throw to people out of the backfield.
He threw a great pass against Florida to Jones for a TD. Luckily for his stats, Jones was standing out of bounds.

I actually said he could only throw it behind the line of scrimmage. :birgits_giggle:



But yeah, that probably would have been the right call.

Crompton imo actually threw that pass kinda late anyway..Jones was open for what seemed like forever, and when he finally got close to the sideline, Crompton threw it to him.

There's no excuse for him not staying in bounds, but damn, he was running around open for the whole play.

 

[crusse10]

I actually said he could only throw it behind the line of scrimmage. :birgits_giggle:



But yeah, that probably would have been the right call.

Crompton imo actually threw that pass kinda late anyway..Jones was open for what seemed like forever, and when he finally got close to the sideline, Crompton threw it to him.

There's no excuse for him not staying in bounds, but damn, he was running around open for the whole play.

He had to wait an extra 3 seconds because he wasn't anywhere near inbounds. When he threw it, Jones was closest to getting back inbounds. Jones was standing there out of bounds nonchalantly.

 

[crusse10]

I actually said he could only throw it behind the line of scrimmage. :birgits_giggle:



But yeah, that probably would have been the right call.

Crompton imo actually threw that pass kinda late anyway..Jones was open for what seemed like forever, and when he finally got close to the sideline, Crompton threw it to him.

There's no excuse for him not staying in bounds, but damn, he was running around open for the whole play.

From the 2 a bootleg to the fullback would have been behind the line, so it's complete for a TD.

 

[Titans4Vols]

He had to wait an extra 3 seconds because he wasn't anywhere near inbounds. When he threw it, Jones was closest to getting back inbounds. Jones was standing there out of bounds nonchalantly.

Yeah, I knew about that, but I remember them showing Gerald Jones just running around in the endzone for like 5 seconds or so before he stepped out, and Verne commented just about like I did saying he should have been thrown to earlier, but no excuse for not staying in.

Then again may have been a different play or different game, as I said my memory is off.

Anyways, I've got to be up early in the morning and get ready to go on a 3 day vacation.

It's been fun talkin football with you, for sure.

Whoever starts, I'll be hoping they can play well and get this team to a respectable record.

:good!:

Oh, just noticed:

From the 2 a bootleg to the fullback would have been behind the line, so it's complete for a TD.

Hmm, that's debatable. He could be in the endzone at the time of the ball arriving, so it'd be in front of the line.

lol Only kidding of course.

As I said, been fun talking football with ya. Have a good rest of the week. :salute:

 

[crusse10]

Yeah, I knew about that, but I remember them showing Gerald Jones just running around in the endzone for like 5 seconds or so before he stepped out, and Verne commented just about like I did saying he should have been thrown to earlier, but no excuse for not staying in.

Then again may have been a different play or different game, as I said my memory is off.

Anyways, I've got to be up early in the morning and get ready to go on a 3 day vacation.

It's been fun talkin football with you, for sure.

Whoever starts, I'll be hoping they can play well and get this team to a respectable record.

:good!:

Oh, just noticed:



Hmm, that's debatable. He could be in the endzone at the time of the ball arriving, so it'd be in front of the line.

lol Only kidding of course.

As I said, been fun talking football with ya. Have a good rest of the week. :salute:

It is true that he was running around open in the endzone. No refuting that.
The thing is that Crompton was mid-scramble. He was running for his life, and he couldn't look downfield the whole time. When he looked up, Jones was out of bounds. When he threw it, Jones was closer to inbounds. He never made it in, though.

You should be happy, though. It helps your stats against Crompton...

 

[rbird]

IMHO, the Wyoming game was an aberration. You can't judge a player solely from that one game, directly after Fulmer's firing. Perhaps the top two RBs being out put extra pressure on the passing game. Perhaps the entire team had mental and/or emotional issues going on at the time. I really don't know, as that's the one game I didn't watch or listen to last year.

But I do know that this year's team (same personnel or not) beats Wyoming by 30 with a trained monkey at QB, solely due to attitude and discipline. I think Stephens deserves a chance to prove himself. Sure, he threw 3 ints last year, some in an inexcusable loss. But Crompton did that in one game this year.

 

[red butler]

IMHO, the Wyoming game was an aberration. You can't judge a player solely from that one game, directly after Fulmer's firing. Perhaps the top two RBs being out put extra pressure on the passing game. Perhaps the entire team had mental and/or emotional issues going on at the time. I really don't know, as that's the one game I didn't watch or listen to last year.

But I do know that this year's team (same personnel or not) beats Wyoming by 30 with a trained monkey at QB, solely due to attitude and discipline. I think Stephens deserves a chance to prove himself. Sure, he threw 3 ints last year, some in an inexcusable loss. But Crompton did that in one game this year.

I agree. In my opinion you have to throw the Wyoming game out when comparing quarterbacks. That was the week Fulmer was fired, the whole team was a mess. As far as the comment that since both sucked last year, and one sucks this year under a new system, so we can deduce they both suck.. is crazy. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[samdavol]

According to ESPN over all QB rating for JC is 113, for Stephens is 194. Huge difference. It is obvious NS cannot do any worse than JC but the numbers say better. SO, what is the real reason they stay with JC? Someone tell me, there is one but what? He is NOT the best option there to win games. I do not believe it, there is something else at work..... :dunno:

 

[sMi.Spite]

Wyoming.
3-9
2 interceptions
13 points for the opposition

Worst loss ever. Ever.
Losing to Wyoming puts him down as the worst Vols QB ever (unless you consider BJ the worst since he couldn't beat out Stephens for 2nd string)

Worst logic ever. Ever.
That makes your post go down as worst in VN history.
Unless you consider your previous post.
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[SGMVols]

According to ESPN over all QB rating for JC is 113, for Stephens is 194. Huge difference. It is obvious NS cannot do any worse than JC but the numbers say better. SO, what is the real reason they stay with JC? Someone tell me, there is one but what? He is NOT the best option there to win games. I do not believe it, there is something else at work..... :dunno:

Stephens got that rating based on a whopping 4 passes against Western Kentucky High School. I can't believe you're trying to use that as a reason to play Stephens.

 

[BigHodgie]

man, all this hurts my head. i want to see stephens get a little action just for the sake of seeing with my eyes that he might do better than JC. this year is not last year. JC couldn't improve under a new/better offensive system...but maybe NS has. slow spring i understand, but seriously vs Ohio what can it hurt?

 

[sMi.Spite]

My point is this.
If you have 2 people step up on a scale (separately) and record their weights, then you tell them to put on the same backpack with the same contents, both weights will raise the exact same amount.
Here you have 2 QBs who played in the exact same system. They both performed terribly, and now they're in a new system. If the new system didn't help one, it won't help the other.

The only way I see it being different is if you're in the RichRod system. If you are a running QB in a pro-style offense, you're screwed. But when you have the same style QB in the same offense, and they change into another offense together, they aren't going to progress differently.
The end result to start the season proves my point.

This is faulty logic. The backpack analogy doesn't work. Yes they are both pro style qbs in a new pro style system but it doesn't mean both gained exactly the same from it. Although I would imagine that logic of yours is still predicated on the incorrect notion that Crompton is smarter than Stephens.

I think Stephens has probably improved more.

Regardless, you still have to look at the facts and the possible options they open up.
Facts:
Against real teams, Crompton cannot throw more than 5-10 yards down field consistently...or at all.
This lack of confidence in our QBs ability to make plays handcuffs our playcalling to the point that our QB is literally a non-factor. He does not factor into the offensive gameplan at all. He is actually a drain on it.

Possibilities, with these known facts:
If another QB starts, there are 3 possible results, performance wise, comparitive to the other QB:
He could be better
He could be the same
He could be worse

At this point. the non-factor that is our QB position essentially makes worse and the same as basically the exact same functional options: neither one gives us a chance to win games, so "the same" gives diminishing returns on any quantified amount of skill greater than "worse." If either of those 2 options were to occur with Stephens starting, we would be in the same boat as we are now: unable to win games v real teams.
However, it does leave the 3rd possibility of "better," which gives us a chance to win games.

There are other outside factors to consider, such as injury, recruiting rammifications, confidence raping, team morale, sticking to his word from the spring etc.

But logically looking at the facts and the situations and options derived from said facts in a vaccuum, separate from the other concerns, it seems optimal to start another QB, wether that is stephens, lamaison, or an athlete who can just hand the ball off to the RBs and throw 5 yards downfield when asked/run when the play breaks down.

All that said, I think Kiffin sticks with Crompton for at least 2 more games.
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[strongtower]

Your post is spot on. People say Crompton is better and 2 different coaches say the same thing. I say Stepehens might of started this year if he had not broke his hand. I have watched Stephens and Crompton in games and they are totaly different. Crompton looks lost with no confidence and tephens is like give me the dang ball.

 

[sMi.Spite]

Yes. You said it yourself, he can only throw to people out of the backfield.
He threw a great pass against Florida to Jones for a TD. Luckily for his stats, Jones was standing out of bounds.

Both Jones and Cooper were open for a good 5 seconds before Crompton thew to Jones. The fact that he didn't immediately hit one of the 2 open guys who were literally right in front of him on the rollout is absolutely mind-boggling. The fact that he then only throws to one of those open guys once he is no longer open (by nature of being out of bounds) is a cruel irony that leaves my soul cold and numb.
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[crusse10]

This is faulty logic. The backpack analogy doesn't work. Yes they are both pro style qbs in a new pro style system but it doesn't mean both gained exactly the same from it. Although I would imagine that logic of yours is still predicated on the incorrect notion that Crompton is smarter than Stephens.

I think Stephens has probably improved more.

Regardless, you still have to look at the facts and the possible options they open up.
Facts:
Against real teams, Crompton cannot throw more than 5-10 yards down field consistently...or at all.
This lack of confidence in our QBs ability to make plays handcuffs our playcalling to the point that our QB is literally a non-factor. He does not factor into the offensive gameplan at all. He is actually a drain on it.

Possibilities, with these known facts:
If another QB starts, there are 3 possible results, performance wise, comparitive to the other QB:
He could be better
He could be the same
He could be worse

At this point. the non-factor that is our QB position essentially makes worse and the same as basically the exact same functional options: neither one gives us a chance to win games, so "the same" gives diminishing returns on any quantified amount of skill greater than "worse." If either of those 2 options were to occur with Stephens starting, we would be in the same boat as we are now: unable to win games v real teams.
However, it does leave the 3rd possibility of "better," which gives us a chance to win games.

There are other outside factors to consider, such as injury, recruiting rammifications, confidence raping, team morale, sticking to his word from the spring etc.

But logically looking at the facts and the situations and options derived from said facts in a vaccuum, separate from the other concerns, it seems optimal to start another QB, wether that is stephens, lamaison, or an athlete who can just hand the ball off to the RBs and throw 5 yards downfield when asked/run when the play breaks down.

All that said, I think Kiffin sticks with Crompton for at least 2 more games.
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Show me where I said Crompton was smarter.
Once you show me that, I'll listen to the rest of whatever it is you have to say.

And to everyone saying you throw out the Wyoming game...How?
You can't do that. What if it was Crompton in, would you do that then?

You all want Stephens because he's the backup QB, and you can't imagine that he's any worse. He is worse. Get the hell over it.

 

[crusse10]

Worst logic ever. Ever.
That makes your post go down as worst in VN history.
Unless you consider your previous post.
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So you're cool with a guy who threw 3-9 with 2 interceptions (for 13 points) against Wyoming?

Actually I'd say the worst logic ever is anyone saying that you can't count the Wyoming game against Stephens.
Selective amnesia, people. You can't look at the "good" from last season without counting the horrible.

 

[crusse10]

Both Jones and Cooper were open for a good 5 seconds before Crompton thew to Jones. The fact that he didn't immediately hit one of the 2 open guys who were literally right in front of him on the rollout is absolutely mind-boggling. The fact that he then only throws to one of those open guys once he is no longer open (by nature of being out of bounds) is a cruel irony that leaves my soul cold and numb.
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Notice my other post regarding his running for his life on the scramble. I dare you to take off running, looking around you for where you can get away from a sack, then throw to an open man before you get another chance to look downfield. It's impossible. When you have to find where you can go as a QB, you can't throw immediately. You have to situate yourself before you can throw.

 

[red butler]

Notice my other post regarding his running for his life on the scramble. I dare you to take off running, looking around you for where you can get away from a sack, then throw to an open man before you get another chance to look downfield. It's impossible. When you have to find where you can go as a QB, you can't throw immediately. You have to situate yourself before you can throw.

I don't remember that play as a "run for your life scramble". It looked like a designed rollout. He should have been looking downfield the entire time.

 

[crusse10]

I don't remember that play as a "run for your life scramble". It looked like a designed rollout. He should have been looking downfield the entire time.

It was a rollout, but the blitz was coming. As I remember it, he was able to throw off Spikes, if I remember correctly. I know there was someone sacking him when he rolled out.

 

[trickyricky]

OK, he was 3 for 9 with 2 picks against Wyoming. According to FHFC Fulmer, the whole team was a wreck for that game.
In my humble opinion, its like when I dismantled the wifes non-working weed eater for possible repair. Looking concerned, she asked " Are you going to be able to put it back together?" WAS IT ANY GOOD THE WAY IT WAS? what is there to lose?

 

[37620VOL]

He had to wait an extra 3 seconds because he wasn't anywhere near inbounds. When he threw it, Jones was closest to getting back inbounds. Jones was standing there out of bounds nonchalantly.

That's ridiculous. Once a WR goes out of bounds, by rule, he may not come on the field of play and touch the ball. So if JC knew this for 3 seconds, he wouldn't have thrown him the ball. Your love affair with JC blinds you.

 

[crusse10]

That's ridiculous. Once a WR goes out of bounds, by rule, he may not come on the field of play and touch the ball. So if JC knew this for 3 seconds, he wouldn't have thrown him the ball. Your love affair with JC blinds you.

Pro, not College.