An even MORE interesting theory about our OC position

#1
Gandalf

Gandalf

The Orange/White Wizard
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#1
I thought this deserved its own thread.

So many on this board seem to agree in principle with 2 statements:

1. Its great that we are replacing Debord with someone new/exciting who can actually coach up our O and have a more modern, responsive offense, while having our teams better prepared and make good half time adjustments.
2. CBJ's is welded to his basic offensive scheme, which is an anachronistic relic or too "mid-major" that wont work in the SEC level games of today.

Now the odd fact is that this team with this OC and Butch's system was the highest scoring O in the history of Tennessee football. Pause and reflect on that a second. Now you can say it was because they ran up the score against weak teams, we have more plays than we used to, etc but this OC with Butch's system scored more than ANY other UT team ever.

So given #1 and #2 above, how is that possible?

Here is a theory: Perhaps ol Butch's much maligned system is not so bad after all. Perhaps the problem was that Debord was not able to make proper in game and half time adjustments to that system to make it even better when it was required? Perhaps too, Debord did not have the players properly coached up and ready for the game. That is not to wash CBJ of responsibility for losing to TAM, USCjr and Vandy this year, since he is head honcho and he brought in Debord, whom he knew would implement his system. Could it be that CBJ may be correct that his basic system is fine but he needs better execution of it?

When you answer that, consider the alternative is that Debord's coaching or CBJ's system had a lot to do with shattering that record, so which is it? I would tend to lean against Debord's coaching - but I am not a football genius like it seems 60% of Vol nation's posters are.

And before you say, it was because we had the talent (that CBJ recruited) to get those numbers and but for #1 and #2 above we would have gotten even MORE scores solely due to (mismanaged) talent, can you claim that this years team was the most talented team we have ever had - the one that actually played, not the one that included the injury list? No, didnt think so. :hi:

So those of you who agree with both #1 and #2 above, please help me - and answer which is it, Debord is a strategic genius or CBJ may have a reason for liking his system, at least more than seems apparent on the surface?
 
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#2
#2
Dobbs, Kamara, Malone, and Jennings had alot to do with it. Dobbs made alot of things happen on his own.
 
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#4
#4
Biopsyman said:
The delay hand off up the middle fawlays fools the other team
Click to expand...

The crazy thing is...somehow it actually did - if you measure by the only metric that counts, POINTS ON THE BOARD and not my histrionic screams not to "Hurd it up the middle" yet again. :crazy:
 
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#5
#5
I only care about the W. Team stats and individual stats are great, but they don't always translate to success on the field.

You think PSU was going bananas after going lights out against USC? Just to lose against a kicker that was 2/4 previously?
 
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#6
#6
1993 was our highest scoring offense, 484 points(12 games) vs 473 points(13 games) in 2016.
 
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#7
#7
Dougie_D said:
I only care about the W. Team stats and individual stats are great, but they don't always translate to success on the field.

You think PSU was going bananas after going lights out against USC? Just to lose against a kicker that was 2/4 previously?
Click to expand...

I doubt they were complaining about their offense...
 
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#8
#8
the message I got was maybe don't confuse loyalty and business...even with high scoring offenses...:)

GO VOLS!
 
#9
#9
Just need a better/ more fitting OC to fit his system and get this offense on the right path. We have the athletes to do it so there should be no excuse besides the OC!:rock:
 
#11
#11
CBJ: Look Mike you did a good job, but we have to coach up these QB's we've got and get them ready if we dont win the east next year my butt will be on the line. What ya say you take that Indiana job.
Debord: Yeah they barely lost to Northwestern and Nebraska and I own them.
CBJ: Good I'll get that Heimlich guy from Oregon, he invented that maneuver ya know, He will coach up that geromino kid and have him ready by mid season (Alabama)
Debord: Thanks
CBJ: You're welcome!
 
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#12
#12
Is there an already compiled tally of total scores against ranked teams or even SEC teams to compare to? I keep hearing because we were high scoring we must be good and our offense plan worked, but I also remember many times throwing inanimate objects at my tv because of inconsistent offense over the last couple years. Pulling it out at the last minute is either luck or previously not playing in a game to potential. Amiright??
 
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#13
#13
neyland05 said:
Dobbs, Kamara, Malone, and Jennings had alot to do with it. Dobbs made alot of things happen on his own.
Click to expand...

C'mon, you can always say this is the case. What if Cut didn't have the two Mannings on his resume...think he would have been as effective w/o Peyton in the 90's? Would you rather have good scheme but no athletes? Think Jalen Hurts would be #1 SEC rated QB w/o #9 and surrounding cast?
 
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#14
#14
njvols said:
C'mon, you can always say this is the case. What if Cut didn't have the two Mannings on his resume...think he would have been as effective w/o Peyton in the 90's? Would you rather have good scheme but no athletes? Think Jalen Hurts would be #1 SEC rated QB w/o #9 and surrounding cast?
Click to expand...

Seriously? Not even the same. How many times did Dobbs have to abandon the play and make it happen on his own. His elusivness made CMD look alot better than he was. Keep dreaming tho. Go watch Indiana next year and see how that wr screen works out.
 
#15
#15
Our offense is designed with little room for error. One mistake can kill a drive. I want it to be able to throw deep on first down and still be able to extent the drive if the deep ball falls incomplete.

"Behind the Chains", needs to go away with Debord. I don't like what it implies.

Get it together Butch!
 
#16
#16
Gandalf said:
The crazy thing is...somehow it actually did - if you measure by the only metric that counts, POINTS ON THE BOARD and not my histrionic screams not to "Hurd it up the middle" yet again. :crazy:
Click to expand...

College football as a whole is higher scoring now. Teams don't play near as much defense. It's not just Tennessee scoring more.
 
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#17
#17
Gandalf said:
I thought this deserved its own thread.

So many on this board seem to agree in principle with 2 statements:

1. Its great that we are replacing Debord with someone new/exciting who can actually coach up our O and have a more modern, responsive offense, while having our teams better prepared and make good half time adjustments.
2. CBJ's is welded to his basic offensive scheme, which is an anachronistic relic or too "mid-major" that wont work in the SEC level games of today.

Now the odd fact is that this team with this OC and Butch's system was the highest scoring O in the history of Tennessee football. Pause and reflect on that a second. Now you can say it was because they ran up the score against weak teams, we have more plays than we used to, etc but this OC with Butch's system scored more than ANY other UT team ever.

So given #1 and #2 above, how is that possible?

Here is a theory: Perhaps ol Butch's much maligned system is not so bad after all. Perhaps the problem was that Debord was not able to make proper in game and half time adjustments to that system to make it even better when it was required? Perhaps too, Debord did not have the players properly coached up and ready for the game. That is not to wash CBJ of responsibility for losing to TAM, USCjr and Vandy this year, since he is head honcho and he brought in Debord, whom he knew would implement his system. Could it be that CBJ may be correct that his basic system is fine but he needs better execution of it?

When you answer that, consider the alternative is that Debord's coaching or CBJ's system had a lot to do with shattering that record, so which is it? I would tend to lean against Debord's coaching - but I am not a football genius like it seems 60% of Vol nation's posters are.

And before you say, it was because we had the talent (that CBJ recruited) to get those numbers and but for #1 and #2 above we would have gotten even MORE scores solely due to (mismanaged) talent, can you claim that this years team was the most talented team we have ever had - the one that actually played, not the one that included the injury list? No, didnt think so. :hi:

So those of you who agree with both #1 and #2 above, please help me - and answer which is it, Debord is a strategic genius or CBJ may have a reason for liking his system, at least more than seems apparent on the surface?
Click to expand...
Neither really. It was Dobbs ability really, along with Kamara. The system is good enough to work, but it needs some tinkering/sets added. A little less predictable and better play calling. It really seems skewed down for some reason. Poor of line? Dobbs inability with certain throws? I don't know
 
#18
#18
look at what Dobbs did with the play calling,don't get me wrong,he did a lot with his running ability,but overall the play calling was pretty damn good this past year
 
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#19
#19
I have a theory..... None of what you just said is true. Also, can anyone tell me from a schematic standpoint why the offense worked or didn't work? If you can not then learn some football buy some books and get informed. The product of being informed will limit both stupidity and ignorance. Stupidity meaning you have information and refuse to apply it. Second, you will limit ignorance or the lack of having information.
 
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#20
#20
When analyzing Tennessee's offense it's imposible to downplay the importantance of Dobbs, Kamara, Jennings, and Malone. Dobbs did make a lot happen on his own, but he also made it hard at times to call certain plays when he was inaccurate passing. When he became more consistent at the end of the season teams had to respect his arm and the ability to use Kamara and Dobbs' legs made our offense so much more effective. We went away from being one dimensional.

Now with that being said, our offense stuttered when it mattered most. For example, USC and Vandy. In those moments the situational play calling was terrible and there was no rhythm. It always seems that when we take a lead we go into super conservative mode and it ends up destroying our momentum and rhythm. The big question is who really was calling those plays? DeBord or Butch. I also believe our offense goes too fast for its own good at certain times. I understand the significance of pace and getting the defense winded and off balance, but I'd like to see us get set and call a play according to the defense on the field more. It also gives the defense more rest. We had too many three and outs and quick scoreless drives for an injury ridden defense.

In my opinion, the bowl game showed us that Butch is learning and making some right decisions. The team appeared more aggressive and the play calling was balanced and seemed to be in tune with what was occurring on the field. Not just a game plan or "chart." He still needs to relinquish some control over the program and let our coordinators do their jobs. Also, we need to make necessary staff changes like Mahoney and Martinez. He needs to play the best players and not coddle to favorites or upperclassman. Let the best man play. I think JG will be more of a complete package than Dobbs and the offense will continue to flourish with his passing and running ability. Again the big question is who is really calling the plays. DeBord or Butch? Although the offense put up big numbers, I do believe it was a good move to replace DeBord. We need an OC who is consistent and able to adapt to in-game situations. I hope Butch hits another homerun with this hire. I believe he will.
 
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#21
#21
Have we forgotten what the offense looked like for the first half of the season? (The play calling nearly cost us the game against App State) Debord laid some absolute turds and needed to be replaced.
 
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#22
#22
Debord added some to the blocking schemes on offense that helped the backs be more productive. He definitely brought some new things to the offense in that regard. However, I think the biggest strike against him was the lack of discipline we saw in the offense. The offense was more disciplined under Bajakian and had fewer penalties and turnovers.
 
#24
#24
I can't figure this one out.
According to reports Butch has known Debord was going to retire. That was out there for months and Hyams said was confirmed. OK, Debord throws us a curve ball and takes Indiana job.

Well, Debord can't take a job he isnt offered, and you can't be offered a job without being asked permission to interview. I find it hard to fathom that Butch is "starting" his OC search. I can't understand how he would let this valuable position go unfilled during the recruiting period, but I think he did the same thing with Debord.

Bajakian left, Debord name surfaced, fans went into negative frenzy. Significant time passed and Debord was announced. Either Butch already has his candidate, or he is flat footed
 
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