Always on the players to execute? Never the coaches?

[TNnative]

Sure, it is on the players to execute. If they are on the field, they assume the responsibility for playing their position. If they don't, they should have the honor of guarding the water bucket at the end of the bench, and tackling anyone who comes near it. And at seasons end, we learn they will transfer, or suddenly decided to leave the team. If they aren't willing to accept that, why did they sign to play?

However, if none of the players can execute, that is on the coaches. Most every player answers to his position coach, a coordinator and the HC. That is plenty of leadership to make sure each player understands his assignments.

So, when a player fails to perform, I blame that individual, but also the coaches failure to teach and train.

 

[volfan102455]

Today, Mike Griffith posted an article for SEC Country titled, "Butch Jones has proven he can win titles, but Tennessee players have not." (https://www.seccountry.com/tennesse...can-win-titles-but-tennessee-players-have-not).

In your haste to find a way to bash the coach, you missed key points in the article.

In the two games that some of you like to continually complain about, for well over 75% of those games both the offensive and defensive players executed the game plan very well, building a lead and looking like a championship team. The lead was lost because either the opponent started playing better or Tennessee executed less perfectly. Only the coaches and the players who know what the play called was supposed to do verses what it did can answer the question around execution verses bad call.

If you put a team, coach, player, etc. in a situation at the end of a game where split second decisions are important - failures and miscues are going to happen even to the best teams (aka a team runs a missed field goal that would have won the game for the other team back 100 yards for the winning score, a team forces a fumble, recovers and runs that back for a touch down to win the game ... it happens ... ) The chance of making a mistake in a rushed situation is very high.

That aside the writer in this article makes an interesting point - the concept of playing players who are executing well verses those who are not - if a player misses a ball they should have caught, misses a tackle they should have made, plays with less than 110% - put in a different player who will execute the fundamentals of the play better. That is not only a poke at player execution but also a poke at the coaches to (1) recognize when a player is not playing to their full potential and (2) being willing to substitute said player with a different player. Sometimes that sends a much needed message to not only the player in question but to the entire team that playing to and above ones potential every second of a game is a must to win championships.

 

[photovol]

Does Butch Jones need to improve his tackling or coverage skills? I'm afraid that's on the players as players play and coaches coach, pretty simple really.

 

[Crazy Ivan]

When don't need to replace CBJ we just need a hot-shot, cool headed assistant.

We need this guy.

 

[VolForLife83]

It's up to the players, but the coaches have to put them in the right position to be able to execute

 

[GAVol]

Ha. Go tell Bill Belichick he should have went for 2. He made the same decision a few weeks later. Football is not that simple.

Patriots vs. Colts - Play-By-Play - October 18, 2015 - ESPN

Everybody acts like it was such an obvious decision (and that getting the 2 points was a sure thing). I don't think it was all that big a deal. I'd have probably done the same thing with that much time left; knowing that we'd get the ball back a couple more times.

 

[Dreamsicle]

How many rehashes can a rehashed hash hash?

A rehash can rehash hash as many times as a rehash could if a rehash could rehash hash.

 

[1974Vol]

There is a 3rd factor in all this that sometimes gets missed. Depth. Our players (and coaches) executed well in the first three quarters of most games. But when the team had injuries or late in games the Vols struggled. Just from what I've read in the preseason it appears the team is addressing this issue by getting better conditioned as individuals and as a result of recruiting having a better 2 deep and being able to play more game ready personnel. We can argue until the cows come home over why it happened but losing 4th quarter leads has to stop.

 

[Special Ed]

I was going to read this post, but I've got to watch some paint dry.

 

[Dreamsicle]

There is a 3rd factor in all this that sometimes gets missed. Depth. Our players (and coaches) executed well in the first three quarters of most games. But when the team had injuries or late in games the Vols struggled. Just from what I've read in the preseason it appears the team is addressing this issue by getting better conditioned as individuals and as a result of recruiting having a better 2 deep and being able to play more game ready personnel. We can argue until the cows come home over why it happened but losing 4th quarter leads has to stop.

Exactly. I always thought last year we had the players to run with anyone, just not enough depth to maintain the course for the full 4 quarters.

 

[volinbama256]

What is to be gained from this?

I think this just reminds us that with all the hype placed on this team for 2016, it is not just the players who have to step up and be consistent every game, the ENTIRE game.....

 

[FlyFishnVol]

Here is where you are a little off the mark, Coach Jones has been quoted many times that he takes accountability for the mistakes (Georgia), I don't believe there are too many head coaches that can't be second guessed by their fans. It is easy to critique a game "after the fact" and then claim it is a weakness or failure on the coaches, players, field, wind, sun, moon, stars whatever. So, what we have here is a Vol Fan that can't let it go, but can dig up the most minute flaw in someone or something. Move along, nothing to see here.

Go Vols!!!

 

[TNnative]

Make it stop!

There is obviously a set of folks whose goal seems to be to create noise around Team 120 in hopes of making the team and coaches lose focus on the goals. Why are so called Vol fans feeding this effort?

Relax. We are in the last 30 days before the first game. This whining like 8 year old girls looking for their favorite missing hair ribbons happens every year.

As long as they don't make like Lemmings and walk toward a bridge, they might start forming rational sentences by late October. So stop assuming there is a conspiracy, that is almost as bad.

 

[SaintLouisVol]

The thing I hate the most about second-guessing coaches is that the armchair Heisman winners also always assume that players who didn't execute the coach's actual decision would certainly have executed had he made a different decision.

"We should have gone for two!"

And, they just as easily could have failed in the attempt. I'm not saying CBJ shouldn't have gone for two, but the notion that his decision is the reason for the loss is absurd.

"We lost because coach got too conservative!"

So, there's a guarantee of no sacks or interceptions? Again, it's true that the game would turn out differently, but it could turn out worse!

It is ALWAYS a combination of decisions and execution. Players have to execute and coaches have to put the players in a position to give the highest likelihood of success.

In other words, the coaches are playing the percentages. When it turns out good, they're geniuses. When not, everyone else has the benefit of hindsight.

 

[UT-Rex]

Don't overlook the loss of Curt Maggitt last year, early season. That had to be a blow to a young defense looking for that leadership. And don't forget FL had what, 7 players go on to the big leagues (and we had how many, what, 1 OL, which by the way left us with a good group of returners).

2016 we have depth and guys with game experience all over.

2016, the players will be much, much better able to perform for the full 60 minutes what it is DeBord + Shoops will ask them to do to Win.

Coach Jones has turned this program up in all facets. It's time for these players to win the big games.

 

[Doberman]

Exactly. I always thought last year we had the players to run with anyone, just not enough depth to maintain the course for the full 4 quarters.

It's especially difficult when the coaches obviously take their foot off the gas offensively, and make half hearted efforts to get first downs, leaving the defense on the field for the entire 4th quarter.

At least that's what I saw in the OU and UF games.

 

[walkenvol]

Today, Mike Griffith posted an article for SEC Country titled, "Butch Jones has proven he can win titles, but Tennessee players have not." (https://www.seccountry.com/tennesse...can-win-titles-but-tennessee-players-have-not).

I suspect it was in response to a CBS sports artcile by Jon Solomon (Best and worst college football coaches in close games entering 2016 - CBSSports.com), also from today, listing Coach Jones as among the worst in the SEC at managing close games.

That latter article includes a video of Coach Jones in which someone asks him about the perception that he is not very good in those situations. He basically reiterates what he said last year after the Florida game, paraphrasing, that it was up to the players to execute.

I am rarely critical of Coach Jones. I think he has brought Tennessee back to national prominence and has pushed all the right buttons in doing so. I am thankful. I am excited. It's great to be a Vol! I mean to say, however, he has pushed all the right buttons, except for three things, imo:

1) He has failed to make timely in-game adjustments on several occasions, 2) He has been mediocre, at best, in making in game decisions, especially in the fourth quarter, that would have maximized our chances of winning. And 3), and most important of all, he seems to have failed - at least so-far - to have learned from these.

Do our players need to execute much better this year if the Vols are finally going to return to championship form? No doubt about it. But I must say, I disagree with the overall premise of Griffith's article in agreeing with Coach Jones that it is down to the players only. No, that is not always the case, and I will include a single example here, though other's could be cited, and this one no doubt has been cited ad nauseum:

The failure to go for two late against Florida last year when we had just scored and were up twelve.

It's all well and good to say that if your players had only executed, everything would have been fine . But that is missing the point regarding that particular situation. You have to take responsibility and own up to the fact that settling for the extra point WAS a TERRIBLE call. Just atrocious. That's not Monday-morning quarterbacking, that's not "hind-sight 20/20". That's a FACT. If you score a TD late to take a twelve point lead, you MUST go for two, PERIOD. That's not on the players, that's on the coach.

Now, coaches are going to make mistakes (and fail to execute) just like players do, but the main thing is to take responsibility for them and learn from them. And I haven't seen any willingness on the part of Coach Jones to subject himself to the same qaulity control prossess that he uses for the players.

Also, every coach is not going to excel at that part of the game (like Myers and Swinney) but if you are a coach, you should certainly be willing to evaluate yourself, honestly and critically, and thus improve, just like players improve when they learn from thier mistakes. And that's not to say that Coach Jones isn't doing that, it's just that it isn't apparent from his comments or in his game management thus far. Sorry if that sounds too negative

Another thought in this regard: in addition to having "a chart", I think I would consider having a hot-shot, cool-headed assistant in the booth or at my side on the sidelines whose sole job it was to advise on possible adjustments/ late-game strategy calls. There is so much going on for a head coach, it's surely not always possible to think of every possibility, permutation, in the heat of the moment.

I view your entire argument like this;

We all know of a family who had 3 or more children. By all indications the parents appeared to be engaged and trying to raise their children properly. 2 of the children grew up to be productive quality citizens whereas the 3rd child never got on track and ended up in trouble with the law or substance abuse and ended up as an unproductive adult. Where does the responsibility fall for the unproductive adult? Is it the parents fault? If so, how did the other 2 end up productive healthy adults? What more can a parent do beyond live a good example, provide physical / emotional support, and assist in laying out a game plan of success? At some point, a man has to accept responsibility for own life and the productiveness therein.

I don't enjoy seeing religious debates on a sports forum, but here's food for thought only;

Proverbs 22:6
6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

We all know examples of where this didn't prove out? CBJ or any coach can only do so much. Ultimately, the players determine the outcome of a game.

 

[golf437]

Today, Mike Griffith posted an article for SEC Country titled, "Butch Jones has proven he can win titles, but Tennessee players have not." (https://www.seccountry.com/tennesse...can-win-titles-but-tennessee-players-have-not).

I suspect it was in response to a CBS sports artcile by Jon Solomon (Best and worst college football coaches in close games entering 2016 - CBSSports.com), also from today, listing Coach Jones as among the worst in the SEC at managing close games.

That latter article includes a video of Coach Jones in which someone asks him about the perception that he is not very good in those situations. He basically reiterates what he said last year after the Florida game, paraphrasing, that it was up to the players to execute.

I am rarely critical of Coach Jones. I think he has brought Tennessee back to national prominence and has pushed all the right buttons in doing so. I am thankful. I am excited. It's great to be a Vol! I mean to say, however, he has pushed all the right buttons, except for three things, imo:

1) He has failed to make timely in-game adjustments on several occasions, 2) He has been mediocre, at best, in making in game decisions, especially in the fourth quarter, that would have maximized our chances of winning. And 3), and most important of all, he seems to have failed - at least so-far - to have learned from these.

Do our players need to execute much better this year if the Vols are finally going to return to championship form? No doubt about it. But I must say, I disagree with the overall premise of Griffith's article in agreeing with Coach Jones that it is down to the players only. No, that is not always the case, and I will include a single example here, though other's could be cited, and this one no doubt has been cited ad nauseum:

The failure to go for two late against Florida last year when we had just scored and were up twelve.

It's all well and good to say that if your players had only executed, everything would have been fine . But that is missing the point regarding that particular situation. You have to take responsibility and own up to the fact that settling for the extra point WAS a TERRIBLE call. Just atrocious. That's not Monday-morning quarterbacking, that's not "hind-sight 20/20". That's a FACT. If you score a TD late to take a twelve point lead, you MUST go for two, PERIOD. That's not on the players, that's on the coach.

Now, coaches are going to make mistakes (and fail to execute) just like players do, but the main thing is to take responsibility for them and learn from them. And I haven't seen any willingness on the part of Coach Jones to subject himself to the same qaulity control prossess that he uses for the players.

Also, every coach is not going to excel at that part of the game (like Myers and Swinney) but if you are a coach, you should certainly be willing to evaluate yourself, honestly and critically, and thus improve, just like players improve when they learn from thier mistakes. And that's not to say that Coach Jones isn't doing that, it's just that it isn't apparent from his comments or in his game management thus far. Sorry if that sounds too negative

Another thought in this regard: in addition to having "a chart", I think I would consider having a hot-shot, cool-headed assistant in the booth or at my side on the sidelines whose sole job it was to advise on possible adjustments/ late-game strategy calls. There is so much going on for a head coach, it's surely not always possible to think of every possibility, permutation, in the heat of the moment.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Other_Guy]

Depends on how hash has been hashed.
If hash is hot it has high rehashing hope
If hash has cooled its rehash hope has hit end hash\

So it won't hash even if it would rehash.

True, either way, OP is high on this particular hash.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

To answer the title question, yes. It is always on the players to execute. Because coaches don't get onto the field and play. They're not allowed.

But that's not the whole answer, because there's not just executing. There's a lot more than just executing.

So it's a team sport. The coaches and players prepare together during the week leading up to the game, under the coaches' leadership. Takes all of them working hard to be ready.

Then the coaches come up with a strategy for the game, and "install" it; the players get on board with it by practicing the new elements specific to this game.

Then the coaches and players get motivated for the game; they help each other get into the right place mentally; coaches leading, most experienced players helping to lead, and everyone getting to the right place.

Then once the game starts, the coaches drive the strategy, making adjustments as the game goes along, all the way down to calling individual plays, calling substitutions, calling time outs. The players are on the field executing every bit of it.

In all that whole process, do the coaches make mistakes? Sure. They're human. They make plenty.

In all that complex process, do the players make mistakes? Sure. They're human. They make plenty.

There are 10 coaches. There are over 100 players. The ratio of player mistakes to coach mistakes might be around 10-to-1 (though really, there will be more player mistakes, because some of the players are so new to the college game).

But the better they're all working together, the more laser-focused and driven they all are, the fewer mistakes they all make, combined. And the more things go in favor of the team.

It's never just this guy (coach or player). It's never just that guy. It's a team sport. The team succeeds or fails together.


p.s. As a head coach matures, he learns how to delegate more of the play-to-play actions to his coordinators and other assistant coaches and even players. He holds back those things that he personally wants to control. What those are, well they're different for each coach. There is no right answer on the "what." But there is on the "how much." It is the head coach's job to be at the point where he's never too busy to do well those duties that he held on for himself.

You can see Butch going through that learning process over the past few years. I think he's gonna be a very good one.

 

[photovol]

In all my years of playing baseball or any sport for that matter, I've never felt that the coaches either lost or won the game, it was always on us, the players, I think that's the way it should be, no?

 

[sjt18]

Players make mistakes. Coaches make mistakes. From a tactical standpoint, they're always learning and improving.

Where I HOPE Jones does not have a blind spot is to his strategic failures last year. If he simply shows a threat of being willing to throw the ball late vs UF and OU.... the Vols win. Both teams threw everyone at the LOS in the last 2 or 3 drives. Both teams threw caution to the wind on O knowing that UT would just punt it right back to them if they turned it over.

At this level, a coach MUST remain more aggressive than that even with a late lead and especially when playing teams with equal or greater talent.

 

[JC61]

Players make mistakes. Coaches make mistakes. From a tactical standpoint, they're always learning and improving.

Where I HOPE Jones does not have a blind spot is to his strategic failures last year. If he simply shows a threat of being willing to throw the ball late vs UF and OU.... the Vols win. Both teams threw everyone at the LOS in the last 2 or 3 drives. Both teams threw caution to the wind on O knowing that UT would just punt it right back to them if they turned it over.

At this level, a coach MUST remain more aggressive than that even with a late lead and especially when playing teams with equal or greater talent.

certainly agree with you and others...everyone makes mistakes.

Going for 1, 2, or 3 notwithstanding (and I don't necessarily agree that it's a blinding flash of the obvious either), I don't see the strategic failures / conservative play calling positions late in the OU game. Relook at the play by play...whether it was due to trusting the passing game...too many incomplete passes, short completions, sacks...as well as, false starts, negative yd runs. The offense was more balanced than some remember. It just didn't work consistently in the 2nd half.

In retrospect, the same could be said of the UF game until the last drive. I still believe, the D just flat out ran out of gas in the stretch in those 2 games, which had as much to do with quality depth and guys not making plays as calling the wrong plays.

 

[ITSGR82BATNVOL]

There were 4 players around the receiver in that Fla. game at the end. All four of them had the receiver boxed in and all failed to execute. That is what cost us that game.

While this is true, it's unfair to put all the blame on that one play. There's no way in hell that game should ever have come down to a 4th and 14 game winning play for FLA. in the first place. We had numerous chances to slam the door shut and both the coaches and players choked repeatedly. That is what cost us the game.

 

[LibertyVolance]

Today, Mike Griffith posted an article for SEC Country titled, "Butch Jones has proven he can win titles, but Tennessee players have not." (https://www.seccountry.com/tennesse...can-win-titles-but-tennessee-players-have-not).

I suspect it was in response to a CBS sports artcile by Jon Solomon (Best and worst college football coaches in close games entering 2016 - CBSSports.com), also from today, listing Coach Jones as among the worst in the SEC at managing close games.

That latter article includes a video of Coach Jones in which someone asks him about the perception that he is not very good in those situations. He basically reiterates what he said last year after the Florida game, paraphrasing, that it was up to the players to execute.

I am rarely critical of Coach Jones. I think he has brought Tennessee back to national prominence and has pushed all the right buttons in doing so. I am thankful. I am excited. It's great to be a Vol! I mean to say, however, he has pushed all the right buttons, except for three things, imo:

1) He has failed to make timely in-game adjustments on several occasions, 2) He has been mediocre, at best, in making in game decisions, especially in the fourth quarter, that would have maximized our chances of winning. And 3), and most important of all, he seems to have failed - at least so-far - to have learned from these.

Do our players need to execute much better this year if the Vols are finally going to return to championship form? No doubt about it. But I must say, I disagree with the overall premise of Griffith's article in agreeing with Coach Jones that it is down to the players only. No, that is not always the case, and I will include a single example here, though other's could be cited, and this one no doubt has been cited ad nauseum:

The failure to go for two late against Florida last year when we had just scored and were up twelve.

It's all well and good to say that if your players had only executed, everything would have been fine . But that is missing the point regarding that particular situation. You have to take responsibility and own up to the fact that settling for the extra point WAS a TERRIBLE call. Just atrocious. That's not Monday-morning quarterbacking, that's not "hind-sight 20/20". That's a FACT. If you score a TD late to take a twelve point lead, you MUST go for two, PERIOD. That's not on the players, that's on the coach.

Now, coaches are going to make mistakes (and fail to execute) just like players do, but the main thing is to take responsibility for them and learn from them. And I haven't seen any willingness on the part of Coach Jones to subject himself to the same qaulity control prossess that he uses for the players.

Also, every coach is not going to excel at that part of the game (like Myers and Swinney) but if you are a coach, you should certainly be willing to evaluate yourself, honestly and critically, and thus improve, just like players improve when they learn from thier mistakes. And that's not to say that Coach Jones isn't doing that, it's just that it isn't apparent from his comments or in his game management thus far. Sorry if that sounds too negative

Another thought in this regard: in addition to having "a chart", I think I would consider having a hot-shot, cool-headed assistant in the booth or at my side on the sidelines whose sole job it was to advise on possible adjustments/ late-game strategy calls. There is so much going on for a head coach, it's surely not always possible to think of every possibility, permutation, in the heat of the moment.

You shouldn't be criticized for your thoughts, which are well founded in my opinion.

If you recall Butch's first year, he often took some long chances because he thought it was our best shot at getting a win. Many times he failed and took some hits for it. But the thing was that he didn't have the players and talent then to make those plays. Now that he does, I hope that he isn't looking back over his shoulders at those failures.

Sure..absolutely coaches play a huge role in late game strategy. If I know that I may have to turn the ball over on 4 downs against an offense that seems to have found their stride and I'm facing a 3rd and 6 upcoming play and I know I have a reliable tight end pass play, but choose a safer off tackle run play instead would be a typical situation where I'm in the spotlight as a coach. It could be the difference maker and I'm earning my pay to know my team well enough and can call that play in the heat of the moment. Even if the play is well executed, there is nothing preventing a great play by a DB who just gets a finger tip on the ball to deflect it incomplete. It's a combo of coaching strategy and player execution. All part of the excitement and fun of competition.