Always on the players to execute? Never the coaches?

#1

TNinOR

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#1
Today, Mike Griffith posted an article for SEC Country titled, "Butch Jones has proven he can win titles, but Tennessee players have not." (https://www.seccountry.com/tennesse...can-win-titles-but-tennessee-players-have-not).

I suspect it was in response to a CBS sports artcile by Jon Solomon (Best and worst college football coaches in close games entering 2016 - CBSSports.com), also from today, listing Coach Jones as among the worst in the SEC at managing close games.

That latter article includes a video of Coach Jones in which someone asks him about the perception that he is not very good in those situations. He basically reiterates what he said last year after the Florida game, paraphrasing, that it was up to the players to execute.

I am rarely critical of Coach Jones. I think he has brought Tennessee back to national prominence and has pushed all the right buttons in doing so. I am thankful. I am excited. It's great to be a Vol! I mean to say, however, he has pushed all the right buttons, except for three things, imo:

1) He has failed to make timely in-game adjustments on several occasions, 2) He has been mediocre, at best, in making in game decisions, especially in the fourth quarter, that would have maximized our chances of winning. And 3), and most important of all, he seems to have failed - at least so-far - to have learned from these.

Do our players need to execute much better this year if the Vols are finally going to return to championship form? No doubt about it. But I must say, I disagree with the overall premise of Griffith's article in agreeing with Coach Jones that it is down to the players only. No, that is not always the case, and I will include a single example here, though other's could be cited, and this one no doubt has been cited ad nauseum:

The failure to go for two late against Florida last year when we had just scored and were up twelve.

It's all well and good to say that if your players had only executed, everything would have been fine . But that is missing the point regarding that particular situation. You have to take responsibility and own up to the fact that settling for the extra point WAS a TERRIBLE call. Just atrocious. That's not Monday-morning quarterbacking, that's not "hind-sight 20/20". That's a FACT. If you score a TD late to take a twelve point lead, you MUST go for two, PERIOD. That's not on the players, that's on the coach.

Now, coaches are going to make mistakes (and fail to execute) just like players do, but the main thing is to take responsibility for them and learn from them. And I haven't seen any willingness on the part of Coach Jones to subject himself to the same qaulity control prossess that he uses for the players.

Also, every coach is not going to excel at that part of the game (like Myers and Swinney) but if you are a coach, you should certainly be willing to evaluate yourself, honestly and critically, and thus improve, just like players improve when they learn from thier mistakes. And that's not to say that Coach Jones isn't doing that, it's just that it isn't apparent from his comments or in his game management thus far. Sorry if that sounds too negative :)

Another thought in this regard: in addition to having "a chart", I think I would consider having a hot-shot, cool-headed assistant in the booth or at my side on the sidelines whose sole job it was to advise on possible adjustments/ late-game strategy calls. There is so much going on for a head coach, it's surely not always possible to think of every possibility, permutation, in the heat of the moment.
 
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#3
#3
Today, Mike Griffith posted an article for SEC Country titled, "Butch Jones has proven he can win titles, but Tennessee players have not." (https://www.seccountry.com/tennesse...can-win-titles-but-tennessee-players-have-not).

I suspect it was in response to a CBS sports artcile by Jon Solomon (Best and worst college football coaches in close games entering 2016 - CBSSports.com), also from today, listing Coach Jones as among the worst in the SEC at managing close games.

That latter article includes a video of Coach Jones in which someone asks him about the perception that he is not very good in those situations. He basically reiterates what he said last year after the Florida game, paraphrasing, that it was up to the players to execute.

I am rarely critical of Coach Jones. I think he has brought Tennessee back to national prominence and has pushed all the right buttons in doing so. I am thankful. I am excited. It's great to be a Vol! I mean to say, however, he has pushed all the right buttons, except for three things, imo:

1) He has failed to make timely in-game adjustments on several occasions, 2) He has been mediocre, at best, in making in game decisions, especially in the fourth quarter, that would have maximized our chances of winning. And 3), and most important of all, he seems to have failed - at least so-far - to have learned from these.

Do our players need to execute much better this year if the Vols are finally going to return to championship form? No doubt about it. But I must say, I disagree with the overall premise of Griffith's article in agreeing with Coach Jones that it is down to the players only. No, that is not always the case, and I will include a single example here, though other's could be cited, and this one no doubt has been cited ad nauseum:

The failure to go for two late against Florida last year when we had just scored and were up twelve.

It's all well and good to say that if your players had only executed, everything would have been fine . But that is missing the point regarding that particular situation. You have to take responsibility and own up to the fact that settling for the extra point WAS a TERRIBLE call. Just atrocious. That's not Monday-morning quarterbacking, that's not "hind-sight 20/20". That's a FACT. If you score a TD late to take a twelve point lead, you MUST go for two, PERIOD. That's not on the players, that's on the coach.

Now, coaches are going to make mistakes (and fail to execute) just like players do, but the main thing is to take responsibility for them and learn from them. And I haven't seen any willingness on the part of Coach Jones to subject himself to the same qaulity control prossess that he uses for the players.

Also, every coach is not going to excel at that part of the game (like Myers and Swinney) but if you are a coach, you should certainly be willing to evaluate yourself, honestly and critically, and thus improve, just like players improve when they learn from thier mistakes. And that's not to say that Coach Jones isn't doing that, it's just that it isn't apparent from his comments or in his game management thus far. Sorry if that sounds too negative :)

Another thought in this regard: in addition to having "a chart", I think I would consider having a hot-shot, cool-headed assistant in the booth or at my side on the sidelines whose sole job it was to advise on possible adjustments/ late-game strategy calls. There is so much going on for a head coach, it's surely not always possible to think of every possibility, permutation, in the heat of the moment.

Who is your next UT Coach since this one isn't working for you?
 
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#4
#4
Today, Mike Griffith posted an article for SEC Country titled, "Butch Jones has proven he can win titles, but Tennessee players have not." (https://www.seccountry.com/tennesse...can-win-titles-but-tennessee-players-have-not).

I suspect it was in response to a CBS sports artcile by Jon Solomon (Best and worst college football coaches in close games entering 2016 - CBSSports.com), also from today, listing Coach Jones as among the worst in the SEC at managing close games.

That latter article includes a video of Coach Jones in which someone asks him about the perception that he is not very good in those situations. He basically reiterates what he said last year after the Florida game, paraphrasing, that it was up to the players to execute.

I am rarely critical of Coach Jones. I think he has brought Tennessee back to national prominence and has pushed all the right buttons in doing so. I am thankful. I am excited. It's great to be a Vol! I mean to say, however, he has pushed all the right buttons, except for three things, imo:

1) He has failed to make timely in-game adjustments on several occasions, 2) He has been mediocre, at best, in making in game decisions, especially in the fourth quarter, that would have maximized our chances of winning. And 3), and most important of all, he seems to have failed - at least so-far - to have learned from these.

Do our players need to execute much better this year if the Vols are finally going to return to championship form? No doubt about it. But I must say, I disagree with the overall premise of Griffith's article in agreeing with Coach Jones that it is down to the players only. No, that is not always the case, and I will include a single example here, though other's could be cited, and this one no doubt has been cited ad nauseum:

The failure to go for two late against Florida last year when we had just scored and were up twelve.

It's all well and good to say that if your players had only executed, everything would have been fine . But that is missing the point regarding that particular situation. You have to take responsibility and own up to the fact that settling for the extra point WAS a TERRIBLE call. Just atrocious. That's not Monday-morning quarterbacking, that's not "hind-sight 20/20". That's a FACT. If you score a TD late to take a twelve point lead, you MUST go for two, PERIOD. That's not on the players, that's on the coach.

Now, coaches are going to make mistakes (and fail to execute) just like players do, but the main thing is to take responsibility for them and learn from them. And I haven't seen any willingness on the part of Coach Jones to subject himself to the same qaulity control prossess that he uses for the players.

Also, every coach is not going to excel at that part of the game (like Myers and Swinney) but if you are a coach, you should certainly be willing to evaluate yourself, honestly and critically, and thus improve, just like players improve when they learn from thier mistakes. And that's not to say that Coach Jones isn't doing that, it's just that it isn't apparent from his comments or in his game management thus far. Sorry if that sounds too negative :)

Another thought in this regard: in addition to having "a chart", I think I would consider having a hot-shot, cool-headed assistant in the booth or at my side on the sidelines whose sole job it was to advise on possible adjustments/ late-game strategy calls. There is so much going on for a head coach, it's surely not always possible to think of every possibility, permutation, in the heat of the moment.

What is to be gained from this?
 
#5
#5
If coach coaches the way a coach should coach should coach bananananana... when do I stop
 
#7
#7
i can empathize with Butch. He can coach all of the right things and put players in a position to win, but he isn't the one playing. The players have to do their jobs, especially when the stakes are high, and they would be the first to admit it.
 
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#8
#8
Make it stop!

There is obviously a set of folks whose goal seems to be to create noise around Team 120 in hopes of making the team and coaches lose focus on the goals. Why are so called Vol fans feeding this effort?
 
#10
#10
Those "cool headed assistants in the booth" are most commonly called coordinators. They communicate via headphones with the head coach who can intervene at any time but also hears their suggestions when other options may be considered.
 
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#11
#11
Those "cool headed assistants in the booth" are most commonly called coordinators. They communicate via headphones with the head coach who can intervene at any time but also hears their suggestions when other options may be considered.



I mean in addition to the coordinators. They too have a lot going on. I'm talking about someone dedicated specifically to end-game scenarios, clock management, etc.
 
#12
#12
1) He has failed to make timely in-game adjustments on several occasions, 2) He has been mediocre, at best, in making in game decisions, especially in the fourth quarter, that would have maximized our chances of winning. And 3), and most important of all, he seems to have failed - at least so-far - to have learned from these.

I'm going to go ahead and zoom right in on this little tidbit of information. How has he failed? At what point has he been given the chance to show whether or not he has learned from it or not?

Let's see....We won our last 6 games....Bama, can't count that one. It was a hard fought battle that we were trying to move the ball for the winning score when we had a turnover. Georgia...whoops. We won that one, in very large part due to coaching, after early mistakes by players gave Georgia a big lead...can't count that one.

So when exactly has CBJ had the chance to prove this?
 
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#14
#14
I'm going to go ahead and zoom right in on this little tidbit of information. How has he failed? At what point has he been given the chance to show whether or not he has learned from it or not?

Let's see....We won our last 6 games....Bama, can't count that one. It was a hard fought battle that we were trying to move the ball for the winning score when we had a turnover. Georgia...whoops. We won that one, in very large part due to coaching, after early mistakes by players gave Georgia a big lead...can't count that one.

So when exactly has CBJ had the chance to prove this?

You're right, he hasn't had the chance to prove it in-game. I stand corrected. On the other hand, his comments, post-Florida game, and in the interview published today (the video from the CBS sports article referenced above) there is no acknowledgement whatsoever that this particular failure to go for two was a bad call. So it stands to reason if you don't even think it was a bad call, you can't possibly learn from it.
 
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#15
#15
You're right, he hasn't had the chance to prove it in-game. I stand corrected. On the other hand, his comments, post-Florida game, and in the interview published today (the video from the CBS sports article referenced above) there is no acknowledgement whatsoever that this particular failure to go for two was a bad call. So it stands to reason if you don't even think it was a bad call, you can't possibly learn from it.

There are a lot of people who are still arguing that it wasn't a bad call. Actually, I just saw it in another thread a couple of minutes ago. Someone talking about Belecheck(?) in the same situation did the same thing Butch did, or something like that.

I'm staying out of that particular argument though. I know what I would have done, but I'm not a coach, so what I would have done holds no relevance to the situation.
 
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#16
#16
There were 4 players around the receiver in that Fla. game at the end. All four of them had the receiver boxed in and all failed to execute. That is what cost us that game.
 
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#17
#17
You mean we're not getting dabo or gruden when butch leaves for the NFL?
 
#18
#18
Today, Mike Griffith posted an article for SEC Country titled, "Butch Jones has proven he can win titles, but Tennessee players have not." (https://www.seccountry.com/tennesse...can-win-titles-but-tennessee-players-have-not).

I suspect it was in response to a CBS sports artcile by Jon Solomon (Best and worst college football coaches in close games entering 2016 - CBSSports.com), also from today, listing Coach Jones as among the worst in the SEC at managing close games.

That latter article includes a video of Coach Jones in which someone asks him about the perception that he is not very good in those situations. He basically reiterates what he said last year after the Florida game, paraphrasing, that it was up to the players to execute.

I am rarely critical of Coach Jones. I think he has brought Tennessee back to national prominence and has pushed all the right buttons in doing so. I am thankful. I am excited. It's great to be a Vol! I mean to say, however, he has pushed all the right buttons, except for three things, imo:

1) He has failed to make timely in-game adjustments on several occasions, 2) He has been mediocre, at best, in making in game decisions, especially in the fourth quarter, that would have maximized our chances of winning. And 3), and most important of all, he seems to have failed - at least so-far - to have learned from these.

Do our players need to execute much better this year if the Vols are finally going to return to championship form? No doubt about it. But I must say, I disagree with the overall premise of Griffith's article in agreeing with Coach Jones that it is down to the players only. No, that is not always the case, and I will include a single example here, though other's could be cited, and this one no doubt has been cited ad nauseum:

The failure to go for two late against Florida last year when we had just scored and were up twelve.

It's all well and good to say that if your players had only executed, everything would have been fine . But that is missing the point regarding that particular situation. You have to take responsibility and own up to the fact that settling for the extra point WAS a TERRIBLE call. Just atrocious. That's not Monday-morning quarterbacking, that's not "hind-sight 20/20". That's a FACT. If you score a TD late to take a twelve point lead, you MUST go for two, PERIOD. That's not on the players, that's on the coach.

Now, coaches are going to make mistakes (and fail to execute) just like players do, but the main thing is to take responsibility for them and learn from them. And I haven't seen any willingness on the part of Coach Jones to subject himself to the same qaulity control prossess that he uses for the players.

Also, every coach is not going to excel at that part of the game (like Myers and Swinney) but if you are a coach, you should certainly be willing to evaluate yourself, honestly and critically, and thus improve, just like players improve when they learn from thier mistakes. And that's not to say that Coach Jones isn't doing that, it's just that it isn't apparent from his comments or in his game management thus far. Sorry if that sounds too negative :)

Another thought in this regard: in addition to having "a chart", I think I would consider having a hot-shot, cool-headed assistant in the booth or at my side on the sidelines whose sole job it was to advise on possible adjustments/ late-game strategy calls. There is so much going on for a head coach, it's surely not always possible to think of every possibility, permutation, in the heat of the moment.

Ha. Go tell Bill Belichick he should have went for 2. He made the same decision a few weeks later. Football is not that simple.

Patriots vs. Colts - Play-By-Play - October 18, 2015 - ESPN
 
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#21
#21
He has brought in a genius to run the defense this year. In tight games I believe there WILL be better game management under pressure.
 
#23
#23
Today, Mike Griffith posted an article for SEC Country titled, "Butch Jones has proven he can win titles, but Tennessee players have not." (https://www.seccountry.com/tennesse...can-win-titles-but-tennessee-players-have-not).

I suspect it was in response to a CBS sports artcile by Jon Solomon (Best and worst college football coaches in close games entering 2016 - CBSSports.com), also from today, listing Coach Jones as among the worst in the SEC at managing close games.

That latter article includes a video of Coach Jones in which someone asks him about the perception that he is not very good in those situations. He basically reiterates what he said last year after the Florida game, paraphrasing, that it was up to the players to execute.

I am rarely critical of Coach Jones. I think he has brought Tennessee back to national prominence and has pushed all the right buttons in doing so. I am thankful. I am excited. It's great to be a Vol! I mean to say, however, he has pushed all the right buttons, except for three things, imo:

1) He has failed to make timely in-game adjustments on several occasions, 2) He has been mediocre, at best, in making in game decisions, especially in the fourth quarter, that would have maximized our chances of winning. And 3), and most important of all, he seems to have failed - at least so-far - to have learned from these.

Do our players need to execute much better this year if the Vols are finally going to return to championship form? No doubt about it. But I must say, I disagree with the overall premise of Griffith's article in agreeing with Coach Jones that it is down to the players only. No, that is not always the case, and I will include a single example here, though other's could be cited, and this one no doubt has been cited ad nauseum:

The failure to go for two late against Florida last year when we had just scored and were up twelve.

It's all well and good to say that if your players had only executed, everything would have been fine . But that is missing the point regarding that particular situation. You have to take responsibility and own up to the fact that settling for the extra point WAS a TERRIBLE call. Just atrocious. That's not Monday-morning quarterbacking, that's not "hind-sight 20/20". That's a FACT. If you score a TD late to take a twelve point lead, you MUST go for two, PERIOD. That's not on the players, that's on the coach.

Now, coaches are going to make mistakes (and fail to execute) just like players do, but the main thing is to take responsibility for them and learn from them. And I haven't seen any willingness on the part of Coach Jones to subject himself to the same qaulity control prossess that he uses for the players.

Also, every coach is not going to excel at that part of the game (like Myers and Swinney) but if you are a coach, you should certainly be willing to evaluate yourself, honestly and critically, and thus improve, just like players improve when they learn from thier mistakes. And that's not to say that Coach Jones isn't doing that, it's just that it isn't apparent from his comments or in his game management thus far. Sorry if that sounds too negative :)

Another thought in this regard: in addition to having "a chart", I think I would consider having a hot-shot, cool-headed assistant in the booth or at my side on the sidelines whose sole job it was to advise on possible adjustments/ late-game strategy calls. There is so much going on for a head coach, it's surely not always possible to think of every possibility, permutation, in the heat of the moment.

Huh?
 
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#24
#24
So I fall in the camp that believes players win games. Coaches can call plays to get players in good situations but in all reality, players make plays. You have 11 guys on the field and the other team as the same. Put a hat on hat and play smart fundamental football. If the coach calls 3 runs up the middle and the offensive line does their job and the back runs hard you are almost unstoppable.
I will not say I like running 3 times up the gut but CBJ is spot on about execution.
 
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#25
#25
I'm going to go ahead and zoom right in on this little tidbit of information. How has he failed? At what point has he been given the chance to show whether or not he has learned from it or not?

Let's see....We won our last 6 games....Bama, can't count that one. It was a hard fought battle that we were trying to move the ball for the winning score when we had a turnover. Georgia...whoops. We won that one, in very large part due to coaching, after early mistakes by players gave Georgia a big lead...can't count that one.

So when exactly has CBJ had the chance to prove this?

Actually, BB, I have to admit that I was frustrated with the Georgia game. As soon as we went ahead in the 3rd quarter, Jones/DeBord went conservative on offense again for the rest of the game. If UGA would have tied up the game (as they almost did), we would have crucified CBJ after that one.
 
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