All things STOCKS

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Added CNC and across the board on Vanguard funds, especially VIS, VOOV, and VFH. I keep adding for numerous reasons.

1: Trade deals seem to be working in terms of negotiating better outcomes for the US while still keeping tariffs (aka VAT) on the American consumer at historically large rates. This will only bring in more investment into the country and income for the treasury (for better or worse for the American consumer that's already being screwed over from leftover inflation prices that aren't ever going to go back down).

2: Tariff rates don't seem to be impacting inflation, yet

3: Earnings season has exceeded expectations and I think MAG7 will crush outside of NFLX (that was needing correction anyway)

I don’t understand the PBMs. They seem like an extra middleman. But I have no experience in the industry. It’s so convoluted that maybe the expertise is necessary. I also think that Medicare Advantage is a really bad option for Medicare recipients, but maybe as a business it’s viable since the government pushes it and if the clients are poor the zero premium options will reel them in.

Having said all that, I’ve been taking a look at MCK as the next healthcare company to buy. Really any healthcare right now is being considered as it seems like the fear of Medicare cuts by the government has been overdone. XLV was overweighted with Big Pharma last I dug into it. Medical devices seem to have a lot of exposure to lawsuits and may not do a lot of repeat business. How many pacemakers or implanted defibrillators would one person ever need? I do like ISRG though in medical equipment. And anything with potential recurring revenue like DVA, DGX, and (maybe) DXCM.

I’d rather buy the industrial sector for the LT, but the bargains aren’t there right now.

 

[mrorange211]

I wanted into healthcare because with a booming market they were really behind as a sector. I thought CNC was the way to go.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I wanted into healthcare because with a booming market they were really behind as a sector. I thought CNC was the way to go.

There’s a reason that they’re one of the biggest companies (by revenue) in the country. What I don’t get is the 4x PE and share price at the 52 week low. Anticipated government cost cutting is my best guess. But they’re also expanding outside of the US. It might be dead money through 2026 until things might clear up after the mid terms.

 

[walkenvol]

Thanks for all the responses! I’m still not seeing a lot of value for new money investing and will probably hang it in some interest bearing options until I see a reasonable risk opportunity. Maybe the smart move to take the 4-5% return and avoid short term pull backs or I may be missing some great opportunities? Lots easier to make these type decisions when you’re in accumulation mode!

 

[mrorange211]

There’s a reason that they’re one of the biggest companies (by revenue) in the country. What I don’t get is the 4x PE and share price at the 52 week low. Anticipated government cost cutting is my best guess. But they’re also expanding outside of the US. It might be dead money through 2026 until things might clear up after the mid terms.

I know that's why I wanted to buy them. The cash on hand was nowhere near the equivalent of the stock price.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

About three months ago I added more NUE when it went on sale. And, after being skeptical, I bought IBIT also about three months ago. I’m not interested in personally holding bitcoin like some people do, so this Black Rock etf is a way to be involved. Hopefully it won’t go to zero.

I’ve held Nucor for over a decade. I’m tempted to add shares. It almost hit $200 in 2024 and is $145 right now. They should do well with the push to expand domestic manufacturing. Especially the tax incentives of immediate write downs - not only for them but tgeir customers as well.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Thanks for all the responses! I’m still not seeing a lot of value for new money investing and will probably hang it in some interest bearing options until I see a reasonable risk opportunity. Maybe the smart move to take the 4-5% return and avoid short term pull backs or I may be missing some great opportunities? Lots easier to make these type decisions when you’re in accumulation mode!

Bonds should pop once the rate cuts eventually commence.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I know that's why I wanted to buy them. The cash on hand was nowhere near the equivalent of the stock price.

Even with their exposure to Medicare Advantage, they might benefit from getting to raise premiums. But I’m not sure if Advantage gets to hike their rates the same way that supplemental/Medigap insurers do. The latter simply shows state insurance commissions that they aren’t making a decent profit and they get to hike rates on consumers. Advantage plans are more like the federal government shifting their risk to insurance companies.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

The Meme Stock boys are back. GPRO and DNUT shorts are getting hammered.

It will be interesting to see if GoPro gets paid by the Chinese IP thieves.

 

[walkenvol]

Have any of you ever triggered a tax liability from a transaction inside a ROTH? According to Schwab, the REIT I sold in 2024 was an LLC and triggered a taxable event. I thought once money was deposited into a ROTH, that it was never taxable?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Have any of you ever triggered a tax liability from a transaction inside a ROTH? According to Schwab, the REIT I sold in 2024 was an LLC and triggered a taxable event. I thought once money was deposited into a ROTH, that it was never taxable?

I would think that taxes or penalties are only due on non-qualified withdrawal of earnings, on excess contributions, or on converting to a Roth.

@BigOrangeMojo

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

AI:

Generally, income earned by an LLC owned within a Roth IRA is not taxed at the individual level, but there are potential exceptions. If the LLC's activities generate Unrelated Business Taxable Income (UBTI), that specific income may be taxable to the IRA.

Pass-through taxation:
LLCs are typically pass-through entities, meaning the income and losses of the LLC are passed through to its members (in this case, the Roth IRA) and reported on their individual tax returns.

Roth IRA tax advantages:
Roth IRAs offer tax-free growth and withdrawals in retirement, as long as certain conditions are met.

UBTI:
If the LLC engages in an active business or uses debt financing (like a mortgage on rental property), the income generated may be considered UBTI.

UBTI taxation:
UBTI earned by an IRA is taxable to the IRA, even though the IRA is generally a tax-exempt entity.

Tax filing:
If the LLC generates UBTI, the IRA may need to file IRS Form 990-T to report and pay taxes on that income.

Prohibited transactions:
Certain transactions between the IRA and the IRA owner (or related parties) are prohibited and can trigger penalties and disqualify the IRA.

Distributions:
Income earned within the Roth IRA (including income from the LLC) is not taxed until withdrawn, and withdrawals may be tax-free if certain conditions are met (e.g., age 59 1/2 and holding the account for at least 5 years).
In summary, while Roth IRA ownership of an LLC provides tax-deferred growth, UBTI can trigger taxes on income generated by the LLC. It's crucial to understand the potential for UBTI and ensure compliance with IRS rules to avoid penalties.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

What REIT did you sell? Was it publically traded?

 

[walkenvol]

What REIT did you sell? Was it publically traded?

I’ll have to go back and check but I think it was EPD?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

I’ll have to go back and check but I think it was EPD?

Traveling currently but that makes sense. EPD is a MLP and the distributions may be considering unrelated business taxable income. Rule of thumb is you really dont want a MLP in a Roth....

 

[tbh]

Traveling currently but that makes sense. EPD is a MLP and the distributions may be considering unrelated business taxable income. Rule of thumb is you really dont want a MLP in a Roth....

Yep, from what I understand, income from MLPs exceeding $1k (annually) in a Roth account triggers UBTI provisions.

 

[Go aeiou]

I’ll have to go back and check but I think it was EPD?

I own EPD and MPLX. mplx is also a pipeline company with a good dividend ( currently about 7.5%).

 

[Ernest T. Vol]

I own EPD and MPLX. mplx is also a pipeline company with a good dividend ( currently about 7.5%).

MLP's are tax bombs waiting to go off.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I know that's why I wanted to buy them. The cash on hand was nowhere near the equivalent of the stock price.

This is crazy. Around $57 on July 1st and $24.50 in today’s pre-open. $13.3B market cap down from what? $31B. I’m tempted to bottom fish CNC. The old theory (before so much algorithm trading) was that bottoms are made on time, not price. Might be in the low $20s for a while. On the other hand there’s a lot of cash on the sidelines so it could be bid up 10% really quickly.

July 25 (Reuters) - Centene on Friday posted a surprise quarterly loss, partly hurt by higher medical costs related to its insurance plans, sending its shares tumbling nearly 13% in premarket trading.

The health insurance industry has seen elevated medical costs and changing enrollment patterns, at a time when it braces for big spending cuts and rule changes under the Trump administration.

"We are disappointed by our second-quarter results, but we have a clear understanding of the trends that have impacted our performance, and are working with urgency and focus to restore our earnings trajectory," CEO Sarah London said.

Rivals Elevance and Molina Healthcare have also warned of elevated costs in government-backed insurance plans.

Centene reported a medical cost ratio, the percentage of premiums spent on medical care, of 93% in the second quarter, compared with analysts' expectation of 89.34%.

The increase was driven by a reduction in net 2025 marketplace risk adjustment revenue as well as higher medical costs in Medicaid, driven mainly by behavioral health, home health and high-cost drugs.

Earlier this month, Centene withdrew its 2025 earnings forecast due to an expected revenue slump from commercial plans under Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. These plans offer a sliding scale of government subsidies based on income.

For the second quarter, the health insurer reported adjusted loss per share of 16 cents, compared to analysts estimates of a profit of 86 cents, according to data compiled by LSEG. (Reporting by Sriparna Roy and Sneha S K in Bengaluru; Editing by Sriraj Kalluvila)

 

[Jax_Vol]

There may be an exception here or there (like magic weight loss shots from LLY), but I'm out of anything health care related for immediate future.

Too much uncertainty, not a priority of POTUS, plus RFK, Jr.

But I'm also not a current believer in a balanced portfolio. When I want that at times, will buy the Vanguard 500 index fund.

 

[mrorange211]

This is crazy. Around $57 on July 1st and $24.50 in today’s pre-open. $13.3B market cap down from what? $31B. I’m tempted to bottom fish CNC. The old theory (before so much algorithm trading) was that bottoms are made on time, not price. Might be in the low $20s for a while. On the other hand there’s a lot of cash on the sidelines so it could be bid up 10% really quickly.

July 25 (Reuters) - Centene on Friday posted a surprise quarterly loss, partly hurt by higher medical costs related to its insurance plans, sending its shares tumbling nearly 13% in premarket trading.

The health insurance industry has seen elevated medical costs and changing enrollment patterns, at a time when it braces for big spending cuts and rule changes under the Trump administration.

"We are disappointed by our second-quarter results, but we have a clear understanding of the trends that have impacted our performance, and are working with urgency and focus to restore our earnings trajectory," CEO Sarah London said.

Rivals Elevance and Molina Healthcare have also warned of elevated costs in government-backed insurance plans.

Centene reported a medical cost ratio, the percentage of premiums spent on medical care, of 93% in the second quarter, compared with analysts' expectation of 89.34%.

The increase was driven by a reduction in net 2025 marketplace risk adjustment revenue as well as higher medical costs in Medicaid, driven mainly by behavioral health, home health and high-cost drugs.

Earlier this month, Centene withdrew its 2025 earnings forecast due to an expected revenue slump from commercial plans under Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. These plans offer a sliding scale of government subsidies based on income.

For the second quarter, the health insurer reported adjusted loss per share of 16 cents, compared to analysts estimates of a profit of 86 cents, according to data compiled by LSEG. (Reporting by Sriparna Roy and Sneha S K in Bengaluru; Editing by Sriraj Kalluvila)

It bounced big time right at 8:15 AM during the earnings call. I was gonna add but I'm sitting tight. This is the kinda company I felt that I was forced to buy after looking into financials. I kinda think the medicare fear in healthcare stocks is a bit overblown like in 2022 with regional banks and credit, etc.

 

[Jax_Vol]

It bounced big time right at 8:15 AM during the earnings call. I was gonna add but I'm sitting tight. This is the kinda company I felt that I was forced to buy after looking into financials. I kinda think the medicare fear in healthcare stocks is a bit overblown like in 2022 with regional banks and credit, etc.

Maybe true.

Whatever the "RFK Jr factor / involvement in anything healthcare is..." could be vastly overblown. He may be bluster for all I know.

With that said, I watch a mix of 6-8 in the broad sector...some more health insurance...everything well off 52 year high except LLY. And it isn't killing either.

 

[walkenvol]

Yep, from what I understand, income from MLPs exceeding $1k (annually) in a Roth account triggers UBTI provisions.

Welp, you knew more than me - live and learn moment I guess.

 

[walkenvol]

This is crazy. Around $57 on July 1st and $24.50 in today’s pre-open. $13.3B market cap down from what? $31B. I’m tempted to bottom fish CNC. The old theory (before so much algorithm trading) was that bottoms are made on time, not price. Might be in the low $20s for a while. On the other hand there’s a lot of cash on the sidelines so it could be bid up 10% really quickly.

July 25 (Reuters) - Centene on Friday posted a surprise quarterly loss, partly hurt by higher medical costs related to its insurance plans, sending its shares tumbling nearly 13% in premarket trading.

The health insurance industry has seen elevated medical costs and changing enrollment patterns, at a time when it braces for big spending cuts and rule changes under the Trump administration.

"We are disappointed by our second-quarter results, but we have a clear understanding of the trends that have impacted our performance, and are working with urgency and focus to restore our earnings trajectory," CEO Sarah London said.

Rivals Elevance and Molina Healthcare have also warned of elevated costs in government-backed insurance plans.

Centene reported a medical cost ratio, the percentage of premiums spent on medical care, of 93% in the second quarter, compared with analysts' expectation of 89.34%.

The increase was driven by a reduction in net 2025 marketplace risk adjustment revenue as well as higher medical costs in Medicaid, driven mainly by behavioral health, home health and high-cost drugs.

Earlier this month, Centene withdrew its 2025 earnings forecast due to an expected revenue slump from commercial plans under Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. These plans offer a sliding scale of government subsidies based on income.

For the second quarter, the health insurer reported adjusted loss per share of 16 cents, compared to analysts estimates of a profit of 86 cents, according to data compiled by LSEG. (Reporting by Sriparna Roy and Sneha S K in Bengaluru; Editing by Sriraj Kalluvila)

Popular opinion appears to buy surging stocks instead of trying to catch stocks bouncing up from their bottom. I’ve done OK grabbing a few long established companies on short term bad news like F when it dropped below $5 and a few oil companies when they pulled back on the Biden policies. I prefer the ones with good yield rates due to the lower prices - lots easier to wait out a stock to return to favor when you’re getting a 5%+ dividend while waiting. JMO

 

[tbh]

Welp, you knew more than me - live and learn moment I guess.

It happens, man! The learning part is the key, in the long run.

There is a lot of info about investing out there that I haven't the foggiest idea about, to the point I probably don't even know what I don't know, haha.