Alabama textbook scandal widens

#176
#176
BigPapaVol said:
the free market decides, as has been the case since programs started making big money.
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ok, so........... Do you agree that the "free market" is basically schools like the above mentioned? Or are you telling me that Texas Tech gets Texas University type money? USC, and Fresno. ND and Indiana.
 
#177
#177
TXVOL07 said:
ok, so........... Do you agree that the "free market" is basically schools like the above mentioned? Or are you telling me that Texas Tech gets Texas University type money? USC, and Fresno. ND and Indiana.
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Are you sure you follow football?

Schools could shell out money based upon revenues, gifts etc. Clearly outcomes for teams and graduates alike, would dictate the quality of the product on the field.
 
#178
#178
justingroves said:
It's not right that the university makes millions off these kids while they (the athletes) get about a $50,000 education. I don't blame these kids one bit for trying to make a little bit of money on the side.
.
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I don't care if the kid makes a little extra money on the side but I am not exactly feeling like these kids are exploited either. The kid gets free education, food, training for his potential career in pro athletics, free medical care etc...If the kid has pro talent he will be rewarded many times over in a few short years. Most of the kids will never make big time pro money and will get a free education and the fact that they played ball will get them a leg up with many alumni when searching for a job.
 
#179
#179
allvol123 said:
I don't care if the kid makes a little extra money on the side but I am not exactly feeling like these kids are exploited either. The kid gets free education, food, training for his potential career in pro athletics, free medical care etc...If the kid has pro talent he will be rewarded many times over in a few short years. Most of the kids will never make big time pro money and will get a free education and the fact that they played ball will get them a leg up with many alumni when searching for a job.
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If he doesn't suffer a severe injury while playing for their school.

I agree about the alumni giving former players jobs.

They are exploited to a degree, moreso in college basketball than any other sport due to the idiotic one year rule. No one should be forced to go to college if they do not want to go.

I highly doubt an 18 year old is ready to go play in the NFL. Amobi Okoye is only 20 however and he appears to be fine but he's a genetic freak.
 
#180
#180
justingroves said:
They are exploited to a degree, moreso in college basketball than any other sport due to the idiotic one year rule. No one should be forced to go to college if they do not want to go.
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Agree on that. If I got a multi-million dollar job offer out of HS then why would I have gone to college? And the 1-year rule just continues to hurt the graduation rankings that they put so much stock into. Why design a system that is flawed by their very own rules? :crazy:
 
#182
#182
justingroves said:
Bob Knight had a great answer to that. I'm going to see if I can find it.
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The gist of Knights comments are that the one year rule sets up perfectly for a player to come onto campus and never go to class. He says it's horrible for college basketball. It does nothing but undermine what they're trying to accomplish with all of the graduation rate measures and such.
 
#183
#183
What happens when the bigger spenders (UT, Texas, Michigan, Florida, OSU, etc) get the players they want because they can pay them more , then these teams don't produce with the talent they have (i.e., Tennessee)? Wouldn't we be bitching that our players are overpaid, (or get more allowance $$ and perks than the Vandy players) when some team like Vandy beats us? I'm sure the players wouldn't care about winning as much as they do without the perks, because they're "getting more."
 
#184
#184
justingroves said:
Bob Knight had a great answer to that. I'm going to see if I can find it.
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Didn't realize BK did but I looked and found it

Knight told Associated Press, "Because now you can have a kid come to school for a year and play basketball and he doesn't even have to go to class. He certainly doesn't have to go to class the second semester. I'm not exactly positive about the first semester. But he would not have to attend a single class the second semester to play through the whole second semester of basketball. That, I think, has a tremendous effect on the integrity of college sports."
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#185
#185
BigPapaVol said:
Are you sure you follow football?

Schools could shell out money based upon revenues, gifts etc. Clearly outcomes for teams and graduates alike, would dictate the quality of the product on the field.
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to answer your first question, yes.

to comment on your statement, Is that fair? If you think so, Florida will rule the SEC. USC will win EVERY national championship (which will be played against Notre Dame). That sounds like great football to me!!! You bet, lets pay em all, and do so based on the schools "media potential"/ "how many dollars they generate". I guess teams/schools like South Florida can go jump in traffic. Who the hell cares what they did, what have they done for us lately. Show me the money, thats a great mentality. I wonder if that will catch on when they become pros? :search:
 
#186
#186
oh and North Carolina basketball will dominate. I mean, duh, they had Jordan! LSU for baseball, or Rice.....oops...thats right Rice does not bring that "big market" to tv. I forgot. And besides, they are rich kids from Houston. Who cares....show me the $$$$.
 
#188
#188
Vols4life said:
shut the :furious3:up bama fan why are you still on our board anyway I'll wish the death penalty against any school I want to I can't wait until the semester is over so I can go :furious3:eek:n that dead A$$ bear bryan'ts grave when I get back to Bham
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Guru huh? I can see why people would listen to what you have to say now. Maybe you didn't get hugged as a child either.

You should really try to calm down.
 
#189
#189
Rasputin_Vol said:
And you don't see my point, which is, why are these rules in place to begin with?
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Mainly because in college the student athelete is a student, not a professional athelete. Also, I would hope that most are playing not only to set themselves up for a gravy NFL job, but also because they truly love the school they chose to attend.

Lastly, because schools with the biggest pocketbooks would always get the best players and that would perpetuate a never-ending cycle of (1) great players (2) lots and lots of wins (3) more money coming into the program (4/1) more great players [due to the money]

maybe I'm naive, but I believe in my heart that nearly all college atheletes choose the school they attend because they are led there by heart, not wallet. I hope so anyway.
 
#190
#190
lovethetide said:
Mainly because in college the student athelete is a student, not a professional athelete. Also, I would hope that most are playing not only to set themselves up for a gravy NFL job, but also because they truly love the school they chose to attend.

Lastly, because schools with the biggest pocketbooks would always get the best players and that would perpetuate a never-ending cycle of (1) great players (2) lots and lots of wins (3) more money coming into the program (4/1) more great players [due to the money]

maybe I'm naive, but I believe in my heart that nearly all college atheletes choose the school they attend because they are led there by heart, not wallet. I hope so anyway.
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Only a little naive. Getting them to their "gravy" NFL job has more to do with it than their love of a school for some of the big high profile recruits in my opinion
 
#191
#191
lovethetide said:
Mainly because in college the student athelete is a student, not a professional athelete.
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Yeah... a student that can get his scholarship ripped from him at the drop of a dime if he screws up on Saturday.

It's funny that people feel a lot of concern about too much money going to student athletes and who's gonna determine which players are gonna be paid more and blah blah blah...

Yet free market economics sure are applied without as much whisper when it come to coaches being paid upteen million dollars by some of these schools. It's ok for schools to pay big bucks to coaches and they can make plenty of money on the side. But don't get these schools involved in paying players obscene money. No sir...

And no one seems concerned about there not being any women's basketball coaches, wrestling coaches, softball coaches, lacrosse, or gymnastics coaches making more than $1.5 million (or whatever Pat Summit makes). Yet football and men's basketball coaches routinely make that much. Seems like free market dynamics are ok there. So why shouldn't the QB on the football team make more than the catcher on the women's softball team? Or why shouldn't the leading scorer on the men's team make more than the best men's golfer?

Some of the arguments used against paying players are inconsistent, esp. when you consider the dbl standard as it applies to these coaches.
 
#192
#192
lovethetide said:
Guru huh? I can see why people would listen to what you have to say now. Maybe you didn't get hugged as a child either.

You should really try to calm down.
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I'm a very calm person but when it comes to anything about the :furious3:tide I get fired up and it lights a fire in me so :furious3:the :furious3::furious3:tide of bammers of tuscalooser
 
#193
#193
hatvol96 said:
Nobody's paying $50+ a ticket to watch your niece care for the sick.
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I am no longer paying $50+ to watch a joke of a team play. I hope his neice comes along if you are in a car wreck instead of an average educated football player
 
#194
#194
I prefer to avoid wrecks altogether. Also, I'm pretty sure nobody would pay to watch her aid me if I were injured. However, I'm quite sure 100,000+ strong will gather to watch football in Knoxville Saturday night.
 
#195
#195
rbroyles said:
I am no longer paying $50+ to watch a joke of a team play. I hope his neice comes along if you are in a car wreck instead of an average educated football player
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The free market still says that the nursing program is less valuable than anything the football program does.

His neice should be thanking the football program for proving her the opportunity she's being given, because football generates money for the university to pay for stuff like scholarships, facilities, and professors.

Plus, if Neyland Stadium fell into the ground tomorrow, millions of dollars would be lost in the hotel and hospitality business, the school would lose all television and marketing/licensing income, and the local gov'ts would lose money on the taxes generated from sales of all of these goods/services.

If the music program at UT went away tomorrow, how much of a dent would that really have on the Knoxville economy?
 
#196
#196
Rasputin_Vol said:
The free market still says that the nursing program is less valuable than anything the football program does.

His neice should be thanking the football program for proving her the opportunity she's being given, because football generates money for the university to pay for stuff like scholarships, facilities, and professors.

Plus, if Neyland Stadium fell into the ground tomorrow, millions of dollars would be lost in the hotel and hospitality business, the school would lose all television and marketing/licensing income, and the local gov'ts would lose money on the taxes generated from sales of all of these goods/services.

If the music program at UT went away tomorrow, how much of a dent would that really have on the Knoxville economy?
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The amount of money football gives to acedemic programs is miniscule, compared to the total it generates, most goes toward perpetuating itself, plus some to other athletic teams.

If the music program were to not exist, the local economy would obviously not suffer much, but the value to society would suffer many times more than if football died.
 
#197
#197
Rasputin_Vol said:
The free market still says that the nursing program is less valuable than anything the football program does.

His neice should be thanking the football program for proving her the opportunity she's being given, because football generates money for the university to pay for stuff like scholarships, facilities, and professors.
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I cannot credit anybody's believing that the football program is anything except a football program.

The University of Tennessee fields a football team, not the other way around. I don't give a leaping d*mn what the college makes from the players' efforts. Until amateur football actually becomes a farm team for the pro's in name as well as in reality, we're talking about student-athletes. They play football to finance their college careers, not to pad their own pockets. The adoration of the fans and the post-graduation job help are gravy. If they don't like it, let 'em do what I did - work and take out loans.
 
#198
#198
:good!:
VolsWinRLose said:
I cannot credit anybody's believing that the football program is anything except a football program.

The University of Tennessee fields a football team, not the other way around. I don't give a leaping d*mn what the college makes from the players' efforts. Until amateur football actually becomes a farm team for the pro's in name as well as in reality, we're talking about student-athletes. They play football to finance their college careers, not to pad their own pockets. The adoration of the fans and the post-graduation job help are gravy. If they don't like it, let 'em do what I did - work and take out loans.
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:good!:
 
#199
#199
To respond to rasp...if it is the football team that is keeping the nursing program alive then how in the world do schools like carson-newman keep the doors open? The university has a nice endowment just like most large universities that keep things moving along.
 
#200
#200
pretending that the athletic programs aren't the single biggest and most effective student recruiting tool in the UT repertoire is silly. UT's only notoriety outside the state borders is due to athletics. So, regardless of the amount of cash funneled to the nursing department, the athletic department is pulling in a large number of the actual future nurses. Those students certainly help pay the bills.
 
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