Affordability discussion (split from Iran thread)

#28
#28
Ttucke11 said:
I'm going to need you to make some sort of point for me to respond to you in the future.
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I did. The supply of college graduates is greater today than in the 90s. So when you do a comparison on what a college graduates could afford in the 90s vs today, you have to factor that in because supply has a direct impact on wages.

You’re welcome
 
#31
#31
Vol8188 said:
I did. The supply of college graduates is greater today than in the 90s. So when you do a comparison on what a college graduates could afford in the 90s vs today, you have to factor that in because supply has a direct impact on wages.

You’re welcome
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Once again irrelevant. You get into this stupid arguments based on semantics. I'll let the math talk. No matter how you dice it, it's much more difficult today. I'm sorry that hurts your feelings so badly.

Average household income
1960 $5,600
1980 $21,000
2000 $42,000
2026 $78,000

Average home cost
1960 $11,900
1980 $47,000
2000 $ 119,000
2026 $ 420,000

Income to price ratio
1960 2.1x
1980 2.2x
2000 2.8x
2026 5.4x

You're welcome. Once again, it's not an argument. Its a fact that younger generations financially have a much tougher time regardless of their financial acumen as base shelter and living costs are much higher than they were in previous decades when accounting for their actual spending power. Not an argument.
 
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#32
#32
#34
#34
McDad said:
Understand why you are coming to those conclusions. But I think it is very premature to make those declarations. Lot of time left for Gen Z and Millennials for QOL determinations.
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Every generation thinks the generation that came before them “had it easier”. Every generation thinks the one coming behind it is “lazy and entitled”.

It’s the exact same song and dance, with a new set of actors.

It’s like Luther proclaiming that young people are progressive, and are about to flip the political landscape - it’s been that way for 80 years now… the country should be 90% Blue. It’s not.

Gen Z will be just fine.
Gen Alpha will talk about how easy Z had it.
Gen Z will tell Alpha to stop being stupid.

Eventually Alpha will get it together, and they’ll be just fine too.

Rinse. Repeat.
 
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#35
#35
85SugarVol said:
Every generation thinks the generation that came before them “had it easier”. Every generation thinks the one coming behind it is “lazy and entitled”.

It’s the exact same song and dance, with a new set of actors.

It’s like Luther proclaiming that young people are progressive, and are about to flip the political landscape - it’s been that way for 80 years now… the country should be 90% Blue. It’s not.

Gen Z will be just fine.
Gen Alpha will talk about how easy Z had it.
Gen Z will tell Alpha to stop being stupid.

Eventually Alpha will get it together, and they’ll be just fine too.

Rinse. Repeat.
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You can't see a fundamental difference in the world and government of the last 25 years compared to prior generations?


....ok.
 
#36
#36
Ttucke11 said:
Once again irrelevant. You get into this stupid arguments based on semantics. I'll let the math talk. No matter how you dice it, it's much more difficult today. I'm sorry that hurts your feelings so badly.

Average household income
1960 $5,600
1980 $21,000
2000 $42,000
2026 $78,000

Average home cost
1960 $11,900
1980 $47,000
2000 $ 119,000
2026 $ 420,000

Income to price ratio
1960 2.1x
1980 2.2x
2000 2.8x
2026 5.4x

You're welcome. Once again, it's not an argument. Its a fact that younger generations financially have a much tougher time regardless of their financial acumen as base shelter and living costs are much higher than they were in previous decades when accounting for their actual spending power. Not an argument.
Click to expand...

It’s not semantics at all. You’re now arguing a separate point. You were originally discussing college graduate earnings.

I pointed out the obvious that the supply of college graduates has changed significantly. Now you’re pivoting to another intentionally misleading point.

The reason this one is misleading is that “household” is not the same size as it was in 1960. Because when people are wealthier they live in smaller households.

What’s your next misleading stat you want to pivot to?
 
#37
#37
Vol8188 said:
It’s not semantics at all. You’re now arguing a separate point. You were originally discussing college graduate earnings.

I pointed out the obvious that the supply of college graduates has changed significantly. Now you’re pivoting to another intentionally misleading point.

The reason this one is misleading is that “household” is not the same size as it was in 1960. Because when people are wealthier they live in smaller households.

What’s your next misleading stat you want to pivot to?
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Dude you're impossible. You give me the stats I'll show it's 2x harder. Both ways came to the same conclusion you just have a foot thick skull.

I gave you an individual out of college spending power. I gave you multiple generational examples of households spending power country wide. What example would you like that proves your point? I'm more into facts than your feelings.
 
#38
#38
Ttucke11 said:
Dude you're impossible. You give me the stats I'll show it's 2x harder. Both ways came to the same conclusion you just have a foot thick skull.
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You’re comparing different things. You should account for that in your comparison. If households are smaller, that changes household income. If homes are larger today that changes home price. If more homes have central heat and air, etc it significantly changes things.

People today live better than they ever have in this country.
 
#39
#39
Vol8188 said:
You’re comparing different things. You should account for that in your comparison. If households are smaller, that changes household income. If homes are larger today that changes home price. If more homes have central heat and air, etc it significantly changes things.

People today live better than they ever have in this country.
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Youre so out of touch and bullheaded I actually admire it.
 
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#42
#42
hog88 said:
Depending on the income, a family can live like kings one 1.
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never had a clue what my dad made. I know it was considered a decent wage at the time, but we weren't rolling in it. based on the relative jobs that were held, I am assuming my dad was pretty mid-level to income of my friend/classmate dads, so that means there were plenty making less that made it work too.

There is no way I could afford my familys lifestyle on just my income. my wife and I have talked about how even if we both kept our incomes after kids, we wouldn't be able to afford my or her parents' lifestyle.
 
#43
#43
McDad said:
Let's do this math. I am interested. I agree with Tucke that wages haven't kept pace with inflation. But wages have always lagged inflation increases...at least that is my understanding.

Was your dad an operator on equipment or was he using a shovel?
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It was my grandfather, and I’m not 100% sure. I don’t want to lie.
 
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#44
#44
ButchPlz said:
"They just want too much."

"They just don't work as hard."

"They just need to do what we did."

"They simply don't want what we wanted."

Have they ever asked why these things are the way they are?
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Why do something that could lead to an uncomfortable reflection or conversation when you can simply say young people are too entitled? Much less effort
 
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#46
#46
Ttucke11 said:
Youre so out of touch and bullheaded I actually admire it.
Click to expand...

It’s called understanding data. You shouldn’t simply say “college grads make less!” without realizing the supply has changed. You shouldn’t simply say “household income to home price ratios have changed!” Without first acknowledging that both household size and home size has changed. Of course smaller households living in larger homes will change that ratio

It’s like when women cry about not making as much as men without including that they work less, work in less dangerous fields, etc
 
#47
#47
Vol8188 said:
You’re comparing different things. You should account for that in your comparison. If households are smaller, that changes household income. If homes are larger today that changes home price. If more homes have central heat and air, etc it significantly changes things.

People today live better than they ever have in this country.
Click to expand...
my 1200 squarefoot house built in 1959 cost me north of 300k. please tell me how my house got bigger or nicer somehow to justify the cost increase.

don't worry, I am sure you can explain to an architect how the same building got sooo much better.

some important caveats. I had to put in about 30k in improvements before I could even move in. Got asbestos removed, repaired damaged foundation, replaced the driveway, and replaced the wiring in about half of the house.

I have sense spent about another 30k in upgrading appliances, buying a new roof, and a number of other updates to get with the time.
 
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#48
#48
Vol8188 said:
It’s called understanding data. You shouldn’t simply say “college grads make less!” without realizing the supply has changed. You shouldn’t simply say “household income to home price ratios have changed!” Without first acknowledging that both household size and home size has changed. Of course smaller households living in larger homes will change that ratio

It’s like when women cry about not making as much as men without including that they work less, work in less dangerous fields, etc
Click to expand...
My man no set of data given by Jesus himself would convince you that the younger generations are in dire financial crisis. Youve made your mind up.

And I don't want to be rude, but you have quite an opinion of your intellect that just isn't matching reality.
 
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#50
#50
General Jack said:
The average age of a first-time homebuyer was 27 in the year 2000. Now, in 2026, the average age of a first-time homebuyer is 40.
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Young people today have delayed all of the major milestones.

They get married later.
They have children later.
They purchase homes later.

Much more interested in the “experiences”. They’ve told us as much time and again, in survey after survey.
 
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