Affordability discussion (split from Iran thread)

#477
#477
volbound1700 said:
Personally, I am very jaded as I think both sides of the argument aren't putting forth viable solutions.

Libertarians/Republicans dial down in Capitalism and say less government intrusion will solve our problem but I am not sure this is working because the wealthy class is either hoarding wealth at expense of national prosperity or they are just plain incompotent in decision making.

The Democrats\Leftists push Socialism and giving wealth to the government. The government has shown to be even more incompotent than handing it over to the wealthy. You are just trading one tyrant for another that is, worse, in my view. Taxing the rich doesn't solve the problem.

The key is we don't need money flowing to the government (unless the government seriously puts it to solving debt/inflation issues), we need money flowing into our companies to modernize, expand the economy, create jobs, and refresh the consumer market. We need pressure the low wage nations not raising wages so that they can create their own consumer markets. The fact is we just don't have enough wealthy in the consumer base to drive economic growth right now. A China and India were people are getting, at least, 75% of the USA wage level would create an economic boom (it will also make US/European industry more competitive due to more balance wages/costs).

All of this still doesn't solve the issue with the infertility/low births and the fact we have an aging populace that is going to drive a welfare/pension nightmare. It is already happening in Europe and many parts of USA. Asia is set to get hard in the next few decades (notably China in 30 years or so).

Basically we need money to go into job creation, automation, updating industry, etc. I work in Manufacturing and a lot of companies still run plants that were built in WW2. China is building new; Korea is building new, etc. They are outdoing us, all because shareholders want year-over-year profit and hoard the money instead of investing it back into their companies to build new factories, equipment, etc. and hire new people. Cost-cutting is killing us.
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Good post.

While "tax the rich more" is a horrible idea that has only ever worked in Liberals minds...we have a problem.

Corporations and billionaires have incredible sums of money hidden offshore so they dont have to pay taxes on it. Its not a secret or a trick...its part of a business model. Thats broken and needs to be fixed. Yet nobody wants to fix it or even talks about it except Libertarians. I am a Conservative who wants a small government but we need to address this problem. I have heard a couple different ways to end this loophole over time but dont know enough about it to discuss their merits.

Maybe some of you know the best way to get that money back in our own economy and taxed to one extent or another...
 
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#479
#479
volbound1700 said:
Personally, I am very jaded as I think both sides of the argument aren't putting forth viable solutions.

Libertarians/Republicans dial down in Capitalism and say less government intrusion will solve our problem but I am not sure this is working because the wealthy class is either hoarding wealth at expense of national prosperity or they are just plain incompotent in decision making.

The Democrats\Leftists push Socialism and giving wealth to the government. The government has shown to be even more incompotent than handing it over to the wealthy. You are just trading one tyrant for another that is, worse, in my view. Taxing the rich doesn't solve the problem.

The key is we don't need money flowing to the government (unless the government seriously puts it to solving debt/inflation issues), we need money flowing into our companies to modernize, expand the economy, create jobs, and refresh the consumer market. We need pressure the low wage nations not raising wages so that they can create their own consumer markets. The fact is we just don't have enough wealthy in the consumer base to drive economic growth right now. A China and India were people are getting, at least, 75% of the USA wage level would create an economic boom (it will also make US/European industry more competitive due to more balance wages/costs).

All of this still doesn't solve the issue with the infertility/low births and the fact we have an aging populace that is going to drive a welfare/pension nightmare. It is already happening in Europe and many parts of USA. Asia is set to get hard in the next few decades (notably China in 30 years or so).

Basically we need money to go into job creation, automation, updating industry, etc. I work in Manufacturing and a lot of companies still run plants that were built in WW2. China is building new; Korea is building new, etc. They are outdoing us, all because shareholders want year-over-year profit and hoard the money instead of investing it back into their companies to build new factories, equipment, etc. and hire new people. Cost-cutting is killing us.
Click to expand...
You know how communists and socialists operate....sure it hasn't worked before hundreds of times but it will DEFINITELY work this next time...

see the same for illegal immigration, gun control, regulating free speech, literally ANYTHING they agree with
 
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#483
#483
volfanhill said:
It's caused numerous fights in my house
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True story, one of my oldest son's math teacher started this crap about a decade ago with him (mind you he has always been a great student especially in math), but was struggling with the "new math".

I met with her and asked her to explain why they were teaching this method instead of regular normal math, and she thought I didn't understand how we were getting the answer. I stated to her "I understand HOW you are doing it, I want to know WHY you are doing a longer, more inefficient method that doesn't teach the actual normal process".

She said it was required by the administrators and the teacher's unions because a "commissioned study" found that "some" subgroups found it easier that way to teach because they struggled with simple math concepts.

I told my son after that to play the game, but do it right to check your answers and don't ever worry about doing it that way again in real life.

Just imagine what its like today instead of 2016. Public schools have become babysitting jobs for the dumbest low IQ students in college to become administrators and teachers. Or for more "educated" social crusaders with Luther-like opinions
 
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#484
#484
Rickyvol77 said:
True story, one of my oldest son's math teacher started this crap about a decade ago with him (mind you he has always been a great student especially in math), but was struggling with the "new math".

I met with her and asked her to explain why they were teaching this method instead of regular normal math, and she thought I didn't understand how we were getting the answer. I stated to her "I understand HOW you are doing it, I want to know WHY you are doing a longer, more inefficient method that doesn't teach the actual normal process".

She said it was required by the administrators and the teacher's unions because a "commissioned study" found that "some" subgroups found it easier that way to teach because they struggled with simple math concepts.

I told my son after that to play the game, but do it right to check your answers and don't ever worry about doing it that way again in real life.

Just imagine what its like today instead of 2016. Public schools have become babysitting jobs for the dumbest low IQ students in college to become administrators and teachers. Or for more "educated" social crusaders with Luther-like opinions
Click to expand...

Common Core or whatever they call it now is the most backward, ridiculous thing. When we first saw it as parents I was dumbfounded. Its like intentionally using a spoon to bring back water from the well every time instead of buckets. The problem also is that "buckets" are banned and never taught. So these kids are going out into the world carrying a spoon in the desert. Brilliant.

This BS "teach to the lowest aptitude student in class" nonsense is peak stupidity as well. Except its across all subjects.
" Hey its not fair. Little Johny only has 1 eye and all the other kids can see with 2. Better poke an eye out on every kid in school."

This is Liberal policy on full display. Unfortunately it affects everyone in public schools now. Not just their ignorant kids.
 
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#485
#485
marcusluvsvols said:
Good post.

While "tax the rich more" is a horrible idea that has only ever worked in Liberals minds...we have a problem.

Corporations and billionaires have incredible sums of money hidden offshore so they dont have to pay taxes on it. Its not a secret or a trick...its part of a business model. Thats broken and needs to be fixed. Yet nobody wants to fix it or even talks about it except Libertarians. I am a Conservative who wants a small government but we need to address this problem. I have heard a couple different ways to end this loophole over time but dont know enough about it to discuss their merits.

Maybe some of you know the best way to get that money back in our own economy and taxed to one extent or another...
Click to expand...

Libertarianism is popular right now and is the buzz word but people wouldn't want PURE Libertarianism. You would have to cut all Federal Programs (sounds great but when you are 70 or 80 and want Social Security/Medicaid, you will change your mind), have 12-year old's working, no regulation on quality of food or products, etc.

I just don't see anyone with a viable solution, at least in the political arena. I think that is why everything will only get worse.
 
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#486
#486
marcusluvsvols said:
Common Core or whatever they call it now is the most backward, ridiculous thing. When we first saw it as parents I was dumbfounded. Its like intentionally using a spoon to bring back water from the well every time instead of buckets. The problem also is that "buckets" are banned and never taught. So these kids are going out into the world carrying a spoon in the desert. Brilliant.

This BS "teach to the lowest aptitude student in class" nonsense is peak stupidity as well. Except its across all subjects.
" Hey its not fair. Little Johny only has 1 eye and all the other kids can see with 2. Better poke an eye out on every kid in school."

This is Liberal policy on full display. Unfortunately it affects everyone in public schools now. Not just their ignorant kids.
Click to expand...
I miss the old days. Students separated based on ability. We had two classes. The smart ones and the dumb ones. The smart class moved fast to match the ability of the students. The dumb class moved slower and spent more time on basic concepts. The thing was that there was no bad connotations associated with being in the dumb class. It's just the way it was. Most would end up taking the vocational classes and get jobs right out of HS. Everybody could read and write or you didn't pass. In the end, most succeeded.

The funny thing was that the students really wanted to be in the dumb class because it was more fun.
 
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#488
#488
Volnanza said:
I miss the old days. Students separated based on ability. We had two classes. The smart ones and the dumb ones. The smart class moved fast to match the ability of the students. The dumb class moved slower and spent more time on basic concepts. The thing was that there was no bad connotations associated with being in the dumb class. It's just the way it was. Most would end up taking the vocational classes and get jobs right out of HS. Everybody could read and write or you didn't pass. In the end, most succeeded.

The funny thing was that the students really wanted to be in the dumb class because it was more fun.
Click to expand...

The difference between AP chemistry, AP trig/calculus, AP physics etc and a normal grade level class is a huge chasm. There were only a few AP courses on the menu, and the difference between the speed and amount of data taught between those 2 tracks is huge. Regular classes were more fun, because a lot of people you didnt share the core classes with were there so it was gonna be a blast in wood shop, weight training, gym, home ec etc when the wild kids from the 2 different tracks all got intermixed. Especially when you talked to your buddies over summer and we all signed up for the same electives. I guess today if you can't get into the track for advanced kids then you're just screwed.
 
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#489
#489
marcusluvsvols said:
The difference between AP chemistry, AP trig/calculus, AP physics etc and a normal grade level class is a huge chasm. There were only a few AP courses on the menu, and the difference between the speed and amount of data taught between those 2 tracks is huge. Regular classes were more fun, because a lot of people you didnt share the core classes with were there so it was gonna be a blast in wood shop, weight training, gym, home ec etc when the wild kids from the 2 different tracks all got intermixed. Especially when you talked to your buddies over summer and we all signed up for the same electives. I guess today if you can't get into the track for advanced kids then you're just screwed.
Click to expand...
As AI rolls out, the shoe may be on the other foot this time. People with vocational skills are at a premium.
 
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#490
#490
theFallGuy said:
Can relate to this. Had my son when I was about 26. Officially became empty nesters this past year at 47 y/o. My sisters all had kids closer to 40. I can't imagine dealing with all that kid energy at my current age. But to each their own.
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I’m 58 with four daughters. My youngest is 18 and will start UT in the fall.
Kids aren’t cheap or easy, but they’re definitely worth the struggles.
 
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#491
#491
85SugarVol said:
I get that.

But the solution, as laid out earlier, isn’t a $500 car payment. $500 car note guy can absolutely get himself into a $2-3k car, and put himself in position for a reasonable starter home.
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my car payments were around 200 for a used car. they were not the reason it took so long to save money for a house.

that was less than the DIFFERENCE in my health insurance AFTER ACA. went from 50 to over 300.

Insurance on the car was also more, as a single male first time car owner, I think it was around 400 a month. I remember when I turned 25 and got out from under that I thought I was saved, but nope it was still 350.

thats even ignoring that a 2k car is going to need a couple hundred additional in maintenance every few months over a newer vehicle.
 
#492
#492
hog88 said:
You know one group in their 20s-30s that I don’t hear complaining the house affordability crisis or the financial challenges that age group is facing . Veterans.
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pretty sure it is an issue. I see it pop up all the time as one of the chief complaints against foreign aid. "We have money for cartoon in Turkey, but don't have money for our homeless vets".

-not saying thats a bad argument-

also there are multiple government programs out there to support veterans, especially in buying homes. Can get much better rates than most people.

I know when I first started looking at buying a house, the lender asked if I would be willing to take a pay cut to get federal assistance, which would have made buying a home possible back then. I very much doubt that is the type of solution you guys are pushing as reasonable.
 
#494
#494
LouderVol said:
my car payments were around 200 for a used car. they were not the reason it took so long to save money for a house.

that was less than the DIFFERENCE in my health insurance AFTER ACA. went from 50 to over 300.

Insurance on the car was also more, as a single male first time car owner, I think it was around 400 a month. I remember when I turned 25 and got out from under that I thought I was saved, but nope it was still 350.

thats even ignoring that a 2k car is going to need a couple hundred additional in maintenance every few months over a newer vehicle.
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200 is certainly better than the 500 hypothetical posited earlier.
 
#495
#495
LouderVol said:
pretty sure it is an issue. I see it pop up all the time as one of the chief complaints against foreign aid. "We have money for cartoon in Turkey, but don't have money for our homeless vets".

-not saying thats a bad argument-

also there are multiple government programs out there to support veterans, especially in buying homes. Can get much better rates than most people.

I know when I first started looking at buying a house, the lender asked if I would be willing to take a pay cut to get federal assistance, which would have made buying a home possible back then. I very much doubt that is the type of solution you guys are pushing as reasonable.
Click to expand...

I don't think VA loans carry any break on interest rates in my experience they simply let you buy without a down payment and no PMI.
 
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#496
#496
Volnanza said:
I retired a few years ago. I had a good job and salary. I have never owned a new car. I have never had a car payment. It is the single worst investment a person can make. My cars were never fancy, but they all ran and did the job I needed them to do. Paid cash for every single one.
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I think boats and planes are worse investments than cars if you are just considering the financial aspect.
 
#499
#499
marcusluvsvols said:
Agree 100%.
Will also add that if people just had the discipline to save and not touch the 3months worth of their bills and expenses as a "safety net" and not drive something they cannot afford... close to half the population of this entire country would live much more stable and stress free lives. Something like 30 or 40% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck and dont have 1 months worth of expenses in their bank accounts ever. We lived this way for years when we were just starting out, and if I hadn't been blessed to keep sidework at nights we wouldn't have been able to keep afloat. So I am not judging anyone. I lived that struggle for years. Dave gives people advice to try and get to a stable place. The stuff you mentioned is great for afterwards when eviction or foreclosure aren't a real threat.

** I never understood why "home economics" which i took in 9th grade because I knew all the hot chicks would be in there (I was right) we baked cinnamon rolls, cooked Mac n cheese, cooked a bunch of crap and ate it. We never learned how to set a budget. Or how to balance a checkbook. Or anything even tangentially related to money management. We learned to sew though and I did use that to sew myself up later in life. Also to put some arms and legs back on stuffed animals for my kids. Nothing even Dave Ramsey was part of Home Ec.
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I still have the tote we made somewhere I think.
 
#500
#500
LouderVol said:
pretty sure it is an issue. I see it pop up all the time as one of the chief complaints against foreign aid. "We have money for cartoon in Turkey, but don't have money for our homeless vets".

-not saying thats a bad argument-

also there are multiple government programs out there to support veterans, especially in buying homes. Can get much better rates than most people.

I know when I first started looking at buying a house, the lender asked if I would be willing to take a pay cut to get federal assistance, which would have made buying a home possible back then. I very much doubt that is the type of solution you guys are pushing as reasonable.
Click to expand...
Homeless vets aren't in their 20s and 30s.
 
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