About last night....

[Gandalf]

I have mixed feelings really.

About the fracas of course because I have nothing but respect for 98.6% of our players who did a great job, didnt give up and kept fighting till the last. The coaching too, kept fighting and never gave up and even though there were mistakes I thought on the whole, the coaches did well - the one exception being that they couldnt shut down the MS QB's frustrating predilection to squirt forward for the first down on every 3rd and long.

Now. back to the crowd behavior.

Before giving a knee jerk reaction calling it either crass or justified, lets examine what led to it.

First, the touchdown from the ball stripped from Corral that the Refs just simply stole from us.

Then, the Mississippi flop on every other play where a defensive player pretended to be injured (only to jog off the field and return next play) to stop our offensive tempo. It was blatant, it was egregious and it bent the rules to the level where many felt it was simply cheating.

And the coup de grace was that bad spot and call of turn over on downs by the refs. Now, based on what I could see at home, it might have been the right call but the spot was still well short of where it was even counting the ball being tucked. Had the ball been spotted more accurately, we still may have gotten it. Would "other" SEC teams (you know who wink wink) have gotten the better spot and a call of first down that would not have been overturned? of course - and the crowd knew it. Also, what the crowd was seeing in the stadium I understand did not show the one angle that indicated he had the ball a bit tucked in like they showed on the home screens.

So what do you do in a situation where the Refs are seemingly in the tank for the other team and you have good reason to believe the other team is clearly cheating? You know neither of them will be punished in the slightest for these actions. For the first time in years of longsuffering fandom, you see that your beloved team has the opportunity and the coaching to reverse the decline vomited upon you by previous administrations that were as inept as they were uncaring about the fans. And yet these external forces conspire unfairly to keep your team from its comeback dream. None of this excuses the mistakes made by your own team on the field but this is not about the other team playing better or yours playing worse but about the game being rigged.

Meanwhile, you the fan, are expected to respond to all this by meekly bending over and taking it - and then those same ones criticize you for not actually enjoying the experience of being screwed over. Whatever pious drivel that comes on Sunday shows, nothing will be done about either the game or changes going forward. Winners, however, like Kiffin (and Saban) will do whatever it takes to win without a second thought but will then hide behind platitudes of "sportsmanship" and use the influence of the supposedly neutral organizing institutions if others succeed in doing the same to them. Meanwhile, the fans have learned well that the UTAD will certainly not fight for their rights or an equal playing field.

So what should the fan response be?

I tell you that we Tennesseans are not the sort to lay down or bow down to tyranny of any sort. Whether it be elections stolen or ballgames, we do not take kindly to such things. There are many today who say that "violence is never the answer". Where words have lost their meaning, however, is a physical manifestation of a desire to secure your rights unwarranted in all situations? Our forbearers certainly did not think so and thus we have the freedoms we enjoy now.

As for me, I am sad that it came to some fans throwing water bottles and other debris in an effort to express their righteous displeasure at clear efforts by Refs and MS players to unfairly and unequally swing the game to their favor. I am glad also that there were no injuries from these actions. There should be a better forum for such grievances to find remedy and one that does not endanger our own fans, band and even cheerleaders. But be sure our fans are not the only ones who act thusly when they see their team railroaded without response. Moreover, while I suspect much ado will be made of the "hillbilly hissyfit" in the elite salons of ESPN, I cannot but hope those who would come to Neyland in the future with evil intent, whether coaches, players or officials, would have a visceral fear of the Orange mob that may restrain their unjust actions and keep them on the right path.

 

[gavolgal]

Best post I have seen about last night's debacle.

 

[ButchPlz]

This was a fanbase that's had pain inflicted on it from everywhere, and to be rounding a corner and see blatantly corrupt officiating rip it out of us again is just icing on the cake. That was rage that has been building. On top of it all it's not like they pulled a soccer hooligan move throwing flares and charging the field to behead the ref.

You're so accurate- they've removed outlets for legitimate expression around obvious bad officiating like we saw yesterday. What else is there to do?

 

[DiderotsGhost]

The fan reaction was completely unacceptable, but I agree that this was the reason why it happened.

The fake injuries, in particular, put the crowd near a boiling point. It was just outright cheating. And particularly hypocritical that it's coming from Kiffin, the coach who has the most to lose from "fake injuries" since he runs the fastest offense in the country. This kinda stuff is going to keep happening so long as the NCAA keeps its head in the sand and pretends like this isn't a problem. (Other fanbases have reacted in similar ways; we're not the first.) The injury rules exist to protect players. Coaches that are encouraging their team to fake injuries to get substitutions and effective timeouts are undermining that.

We should be fined for the fan reaction, but so Kiffin for the fake injuries. It was egregious. Send a message.

Rules need to be changed to disincentive faking injuries. Players should have to sit out the entire series; if not an entire quarter. Fines should be handed out more liberally for coaches that abuse this.

Sometimes it's difficult to tell if players are faking injuries or they are legit, but it wasn't in the case. It was the most blatant faking I've ever seen.

 

[TNnative]

The fan reaction was completely unacceptable, but I agree that this was the reason why it happened.

The fake injuries, in particular, put the crowd near a boiling point. It was just outright cheating. And particularly hypocritical that it's coming from Kiffin, the coach who has the most to lose from "fake injuries" since he runs the fastest offense in the country. This kinda stuff is going to keep happening so long as the NCAA keeps its head in the sand and pretends like this isn't a problem. (Other fanbases have reacted in similar ways; we're not the first.) The injury rules exist to protect players. Coaches that are encouraging their team to fake injuries to get substitutions and effective timeouts are undermining that.

We should be fined for the fan reaction, but so Kiffin for the fake injuries. It was egregious. Send a message.

Rules need to be changed to disincentive faking injuries. Players should have to sit out the entire series; if not an entire quarter. Fines should be handed out more liberally for coaches that abuse this.

Sometimes it's difficult to tell if players are faking injuries or they are legit, but it wasn't in the case. It was the most blatant faking I've ever seen.

You need a rule prohibiing staging. That is the actual term for it.

 

[VFL1953]

The fan reaction was completely unacceptable, but I agree that this was the reason why it happened.

The fake injuries, in particular, put the crowd near a boiling point. It was just outright cheating. And particularly hypocritical that it's coming from Kiffin, the coach who has the most to lose from "fake injuries" since he runs the fastest offense in the country. This kinda stuff is going to keep happening so long as the NCAA keeps its head in the sand and pretends like this isn't a problem. (Other fanbases have reacted in similar ways; we're not the first.) The injury rules exist to protect players. Coaches that are encouraging their team to fake injuries to get substitutions and effective timeouts are undermining that.

We should be fined for the fan reaction, but so Kiffin for the fake injuries. It was egregious. Send a message.

Rules need to be changed to disincentive faking injuries. Players should have to sit out the entire series; if not an entire quarter. Fines should be handed out more liberally for coaches that abuse this.

Sometimes it's difficult to tell if players are faking injuries or they are legit, but it wasn't in the case. It was the most blatant faking I've ever seen.

I like the "sit out the series" idea.

 

[screenthis]

I have mixed feelings really.

About the fracas of course because I have nothing but respect for 98.6% of our players who did a great job, didnt give up and kept fighting till the last. The coaching too, kept fighting and never gave up and even though there were mistakes I thought on the whole, the coaches did well - the one exception being that they couldnt shut down the MS QB's frustrating predilection to squirt forward for the first down on every 3rd and long.

Now. back to the crowd behavior.

Before giving a knee jerk reaction calling it either crass or justified, lets examine what led to it.

First, the touchdown from the ball stripped from Corral that the Refs just simply stole from us.

Then, the Mississippi flop on every other play where a defensive player pretended to be injured (only to jog off the field and return next play) to stop our offensive tempo. It was blatant, it was egregious and it bent the rules to the level where many felt it was simply cheating.

And the coup de grace was that bad spot and call of turn over on downs by the refs. Now, based on what I could see at home, it might have been the right call but the spot was still well short of where it was even counting the ball being tucked. Had the ball been spotted more accurately, we still may have gotten it. Would "other" SEC teams (you know who wink wink) have gotten the better spot and a call of first down that would not have been overturned? of course - and the crowd knew it. Also, what the crowd was seeing in the stadium I understand did not show the one angle that indicated he had the ball a bit tucked in like they showed on the home screens.

So what do you do in a situation where the Refs are seemingly in the tank for the other team and you have good reason to believe the other team is clearly cheating? You know neither of them will be punished in the slightest for these actions. For the first time in years of longsuffering fandom, you see that your beloved team has the opportunity and the coaching to reverse the decline vomited upon you by previous administrations that were as inept as they were uncaring about the fans. And yet these external forces conspire unfairly to keep your team from its comeback dream. None of this excuses the mistakes made by your own team on the field but this is not about the other team playing better or yours playing worse but about the game being rigged.

Meanwhile, you the fan, are expected to respond to all this by meekly bending over and taking it - and then those same ones criticize you for not actually enjoying the experience of being screwed over. Whatever pious drivel that comes on Sunday shows, nothing will be done about either the game or changes going forward. Winners, however, like Kiffin (and Saban) will do whatever it takes to win without a second thought but will then hide behind platitudes of "sportsmanship" and use the influence of the supposedly neutral organizing institutions if others succeed in doing the same to them. Meanwhile, the fans have learned well that the UTAD will certainly not fight for their rights or an equal playing field.

So what should the fan response be?

I tell you that we Tennesseans are not the sort to lay down or bow down to tyranny of any sort. Whether it be elections stolen or ballgames, we do not take kindly to such things. There are many today who say that "violence is never the answer". Where words have lost their meaning, however, is a physical manifestation of a desire to secure your rights unwarranted in all situations? Our forbearers certainly did not think so and thus we have the freedoms we enjoy now.

As for me, I am sad that it came to some fans throwing water bottles and other debris in an effort to express their righteous displeasure at clear efforts by Refs and MS players to unfairly and unequally swing the game to their favor. I am glad also that there were no injuries from these actions. There should be a better forum for such grievances to find remedy and one that does not endanger our own fans, band and even cheerleaders. But be sure our fans are not the only ones who act thusly when they see their team railroaded without response. Moreover, while I suspect much ado will be made of the "hillbilly hissyfit" in the elite salons of ESPN, I cannot but hope those who would come to Neyland in the future with evil intent, whether coaches, players or officials, would have a visceral fear of the Orange mob that may restrain their unjust actions and keep them on the right path.

No elections were stolen and no, the refs aren't 'in the tank'. They just made some terrible calls. As for 'the fans, most of us were well behaved. Im very proud of what I saw from our team. But yes, very annoyed at fake injuries and a few terrible calls by the refs that changed the course of the game.

 

[amorange]

I think the way to stop the staging of injury is to require a player to sit out at least 5 timed minutes for team physician to evaluate him. If he goes down a second time something is wrong maybe internally so remove him from play for his own safety.

 

[BelleVol]

When you back a wild animal into a corner and poke it with a stick after a while they begin to lash out. Our fans were backed into a corner last night and continually getting poked with that stick. Then they lashed out.

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

I have mixed feelings really.

About the fracas of course because I have nothing but respect for 98.6% of our players who did a great job, didnt give up and kept fighting till the last. The coaching too, kept fighting and never gave up and even though there were mistakes I thought on the whole, the coaches did well - the one exception being that they couldnt shut down the MS QB's frustrating predilection to squirt forward for the first down on every 3rd and long.

Now. back to the crowd behavior.

Before giving a knee jerk reaction calling it either crass or justified, lets examine what led to it.

First, the touchdown from the ball stripped from Corral that the Refs just simply stole from us.

Then, the Mississippi flop on every other play where a defensive player pretended to be injured (only to jog off the field and return next play) to stop our offensive tempo. It was blatant, it was egregious and it bent the rules to the level where many felt it was simply cheating.

And the coup de grace was that bad spot and call of turn over on downs by the refs. Now, based on what I could see at home, it might have been the right call but the spot was still well short of where it was even counting the ball being tucked. Had the ball been spotted more accurately, we still may have gotten it. Would "other" SEC teams (you know who wink wink) have gotten the better spot and a call of first down that would not have been overturned? of course - and the crowd knew it. Also, what the crowd was seeing in the stadium I understand did not show the one angle that indicated he had the ball a bit tucked in like they showed on the home screens.

So what do you do in a situation where the Refs are seemingly in the tank for the other team and you have good reason to believe the other team is clearly cheating? You know neither of them will be punished in the slightest for these actions. For the first time in years of longsuffering fandom, you see that your beloved team has the opportunity and the coaching to reverse the decline vomited upon you by previous administrations that were as inept as they were uncaring about the fans. And yet these external forces conspire unfairly to keep your team from its comeback dream. None of this excuses the mistakes made by your own team on the field but this is not about the other team playing better or yours playing worse but about the game being rigged.

Meanwhile, you the fan, are expected to respond to all this by meekly bending over and taking it - and then those same ones criticize you for not actually enjoying the experience of being screwed over. Whatever pious drivel that comes on Sunday shows, nothing will be done about either the game or changes going forward. Winners, however, like Kiffin (and Saban) will do whatever it takes to win without a second thought but will then hide behind platitudes of "sportsmanship" and use the influence of the supposedly neutral organizing institutions if others succeed in doing the same to them. Meanwhile, the fans have learned well that the UTAD will certainly not fight for their rights or an equal playing field.

So what should the fan response be?

I tell you that we Tennesseans are not the sort to lay down or bow down to tyranny of any sort. Whether it be elections stolen or ballgames, we do not take kindly to such things. There are many today who say that "violence is never the answer". Where words have lost their meaning, however, is a physical manifestation of a desire to secure your rights unwarranted in all situations? Our forbearers certainly did not think so and thus we have the freedoms we enjoy now.

As for me, I am sad that it came to some fans throwing water bottles and other debris in an effort to express their righteous displeasure at clear efforts by Refs and MS players to unfairly and unequally swing the game to their favor. I am glad also that there were no injuries from these actions. There should be a better forum for such grievances to find remedy and one that does not endanger our own fans, band and even cheerleaders. But be sure our fans are not the only ones who act thusly when they see their team railroaded without response. Moreover, while I suspect much ado will be made of the "hillbilly hissyfit" in the elite salons of ESPN, I cannot but hope those who would come to Neyland in the future with evil intent, whether coaches, players or officials, would have a visceral fear of the Orange mob that may restrain their unjust actions and keep them on the right path.

Preach..

 

[luthervol]

First time play has to be delayed due to injury, the player must sit out at least one play.
Second time, at least two plays.
Third time, at least three plays.
etc............

Maybe that would be one way to address the issue without putting officials in a position of trying to determine what is legit and what is an act.

 

[GordonC]

First time play has to be delayed due to injury, the player must sit out at least one play.
Second time, at least two plays.
Third time, at least three plays.
etc............

Maybe that would be one way to address the issue without putting officials in a position of trying to determine what is legit and what is an act.

It's quite the continuum of deceit.

 

[ptcarter]

You can’t deny this. The fan passion in the stadium was the best it’s been in years. Loudest in there since the Florida win, and this was before the first mustard bottle was thrown. It finally felt like the old days in Neyland.

This is a fan base that has had the scoreboard saying we won with 0:00 on the clock twice only to end up losing. Yes we had too many men at LSU, but it builds ya know. How many times have we been one play away from beating Florida, or a field goal away from beating Bama or a Pig Howard fumble against Georgia? Dang right this fan base is a powder keg.
We were that close (my thumb close to my index finger) and Lucy pull Charlie Browns football away yet again. And with a team that’s atrriion rate higher than any in the FBS and getting worse with non fake injuries. Kiffen pulling that crap was deliberate and cost us the game. I’m glad to see a little passion back in the most magnificent venue in college football.

 

[luthervol]

It's quite the continuum of deceit.

lol.........Just one more great example of the wonderful world of continuums.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Some of the comments I have seen about last night on here are very disturbing. Let’s put a scenario up for discussion. We play Kentucky at UK. Say we beat them and there were multiple bad calls that cost UK the game. Would any of you be upset if UK fans threw things at our players and hit Heupel with a gold ball?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

lol.........Just one more great example of the wonderful world of continuums.

Strange to see you in the FF Luther. Good to see you in here.

 

[Falcons02]

And the coup de grace was that bad spot and call of turn over on downs by the refs.

I was with you until here. He was short of the line to gain. No matter how much I or any of us wish it different, he was short.

The strip/touchdown call was egregious and the flopping all night was ridiculous, those are things that are completely justifiable to be pissed about.

 

[Gandalf]

Some of the comments I have seen about last night on here are very disturbing. Let’s put a scenario up for discussion. We play Kentucky at UK. Say we beat them and there were multiple bad calls that cost UK the game. Would any of you be upset if UK fans threw things at our players and hit Heupel with a gold ball?

Would Heupel have been deliberately bending the rules over and over throughout the game as well as most of our players?

 

[stillavol]

I understand the "fake injuries" accusations and I'm sure many are warranted. I was at the game and also saw UT have a few injuries. But what I don't understand is how it helps a team to remove a starter and put in a 2nd stringer. Does it help Hooker throw the ball better, do our backs run harder without the time break, do we block better etc? I have little doubt all teams do this at some point (mainly to help their defense catch their breath and regroup) but not sure if it makes a pass complete or incomplete the next play. The game I saw was lost because of our inability to contain Corral. Without him Ole Miss may have never scored. One player was the difference in this game. Corral had more to do with the outcome than every ref combined. I was getting frustrated too but my frustration was building from the 3rd and longs Corral kept making. Letting him rush for almost 200 yards is why we lost this game. Just my two.

 

[Gandalf]

The fan reaction was completely unacceptable, but I agree that this was the reason why it happened.

The fake injuries, in particular, put the crowd near a boiling point. It was just outright cheating. And particularly hypocritical that it's coming from Kiffin, the coach who has the most to lose from "fake injuries" since he runs the fastest offense in the country. This kinda stuff is going to keep happening so long as the NCAA keeps its head in the sand and pretends like this isn't a problem. (Other fanbases have reacted in similar ways; we're not the first.) The injury rules exist to protect players. Coaches that are encouraging their team to fake injuries to get substitutions and effective timeouts are undermining that.

We should be fined for the fan reaction, but so Kiffin for the fake injuries. It was egregious. Send a message.

Rules need to be changed to disincentive faking injuries. Players should have to sit out the entire series; if not an entire quarter. Fines should be handed out more liberally for coaches that abuse this.

Sometimes it's difficult to tell if players are faking injuries or they are legit, but it wasn't in the case. It was the most blatant faking I've ever seen.

I am not sure "fines" will do much for coaches who see it as a winning strategy as it clearly was Saturday. Would you pay $500k or $1m even for another win? especially an SEC win?

What will be interesting/humorous will be the loud protestations and howls of "unfair play!" emanating from Kiffin when another coach/team does it to MS, since they also run fairly uptempo. Its going to happen eventually and Kiffin will also see no hypocrisy in doing so, only that he is willing to do whatever it takes to win games and the media war (having the double benefit of boosts to recruiting and the kult of kiffin).

Meanwhile Huepel will have to figure out a compensating strategy to deal with this tactic now that it has been exposed for every team to use against him - one expects more judiciously and less blatantly than MS though. Its hard to do in his first year implementing his system but I have confidence in the longer term he will sort it out even if the rules dont change.

 

[ptcarter]

I understand the "fake injuries" accusations and I'm sure many are warranted. I was at the game and also saw UT have a few injuries. But what I don't understand is how it helps a team to remove a starter and put in a 2nd stringer. Does it help Hooker throw the ball better, do our backs run harder without the time break, do we block better etc? I have little doubt all teams do this at some point (mainly to help their defense catch their breath and regroup) but not sure if it makes a pass complete or incomplete the next play. The game I saw was lost because of our inability to contain Corral. Without him Ole Miss may have never scored. One player was the difference in this game. Corral had more to do with the outcome than every ref combined. I was getting frustrated too but my frustration was building from the 3rd and longs Corral kept making. Letting him rush for almost 200 yards is why we lost this game. Just my two.

One thing you aren't taking in account. A high speed offense takes advantage of: a) the defense being out of position and b) not being able to substitute and getting the defense gassed. When a flop happens, it kills the momentum.

Ainge mentioned this on his show once. There isn't a play where a defender can run half speed or rest. He has to assume the play is coming his way every time. On offense, a reciever, knowing its going to be a run - his only job is to trot downfield to pull a corner away from the flow of the play. He doesn't have to go full bore.

I agree that Corral had a monster game. No doubt that kid won the game with his feet. BUT.... in the 4th, we were still fingertips away from winning. Had we been able to play the game the way Heupel had designed it, I think we could have been 1 or even 2 touchdowns better. Basically those dozen or so flops, were a dozen or so FREE timeouts Kiffen had to communicate to the booth and get players aligned and set up right, and insure we had no momentum. It was bullcrap.