Abortions and the bible.

#751
#751
Given the near infinite possible manifestations of potential and the poverty of realized eventualities relative to what could be, I find it difficult to assign significance to the potential of an embryo to live a rich life as a highly sentient human being.

If my mother had an abortion I obviously wound't exist, but the absence of that procedure was merely one of the millions, maybe billions or trillions, of conditions that had to align just right for me to exist. There are countless geniuses, athletes, loving friends, etc. that will not exist due to abstinence, condoms, the randomness of sexual reproduction, etc.

Life is a miracle, reality is a miracle, let us focus on the optimizing the experiences and well-being of those who stand to benefit the most from our efforts in the present moment.
 
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#753
#753
Septic said:
Are you suggesting the definition of "murder" was developed in a partisan way as to excuse abortion?

You're just crazy talking at this point.

And since you can't seem to wrap your head around my position despite drawing you a road map, I'm anti-abortion slightly less than I'm anti-nanny state. It's ironic, really, how your ilk pretends to be for less government intervention and deregulation unless the codification of laws isn't congruent with your personal beliefs.
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The definition of murder was created by humans. It used to be that murder was actually murder. But along the way, it became bastardized (people using technicalities to meet their own selfish ends).

I am not crazy talking. I am calm and am making logical points that you are ignoring because you choose to dismiss someone who doesn't agree with you as "crazy".

I fully understand the position that you are taking. Just because I "understand" your position doesn't I will sit by and allow you to continue to poison minds with it. I've heard you mention several times that you are not personally for it, but that you also aren't for telling others what they should or shouldn't do. You cite the law's definition of murder as your reason for supporting it. I say that is a lazy convenience. If the law said something else, you and your party would get the law changed so it said what you wanted.
 
#756
#756
luthervol said:
I have no problem whatsoever fully supporting Roe vs. Wade. Never have and never will.
Side tangent that I occasionally bring up and do not really wish to debate...just food for thought for the more religious posters.
Does life begin at fertilization?
Is that the point at which a human is created?
Does that two celled human have a soul?
Is there an eternity? (heaven/hell)
Will the soul of that two celled human live eternally?
The good place or the bad place?
Just always found that extrapolation fascinating.
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Does life begin at fertilization? Yes
Is that the point at which a human is created? Yes
Does that two celled human have a soul? Not technically. I have a lot to learn here. Also not relevant in my argument.
Is there an eternity? (heaven/hell) Yes
Will the soul of that two celled human live eternally? With God's mercy, yes.
The good place or the bad place? With God's mercy, the good place.
 
#757
#757
Purple Tiger said:
Nobody cares about winning word battles, perceived fallacies or even your personal opinion. You are not going to convince Pro-Choice advocates to change their minds and vice versa. Until the court decides differently, Roe v. Wade is the law of the land.
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I understand that.

I believe I can hopefully shine some light on a situation where there are people in the middle. Just as those of you on here who "fight back" are trying to get me, or others in the middle, to change our minds. I can't speak for you, but I am specifically in this thread to change hearts.
 
#758
#758
Roustabout said:
There is nothing to show that a sperm is a unique, developing human life. Just because there are bad arguments doesn’t make all arguments bad.
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But millions wholeheartedly believe that it is. It has been religious doctrine for centuries. How can you say that you are right and they are wrong?
 
#759
#759
Purple Tiger said:
Really? All that will eliminate pregnancies that are dangerous to the mother, pregnancies due to rape/incest or all unplanned pregnancies? I'd rather have Planned Parenthood, which also does GYN checkups and educates people on/distributes birth control, which can ELIMINATE the need for abortions.
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You are grossly misinformed on the mission of Planned Parenthood. MANY of their facilities do nothing but abortions. They do not refer for adoptions. They do not show their patients the ultrasounds they take (if they even take them), because they don't want them to have the chance to see the humanity on that ultrasound and change their mind. Abortions are $$$$ for them.

Go look at the statistics posted elsewhere in this thread, and you'll see how tiny of a percentage of abortions those unfortunate situations actually are. We should be spending the majority of our money and effort towards helping those people through their difficult situations, and the rest of the abortions, for convenience or socioeconomic reasons, should just not happen.
 
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#760
#760
Septic said:
Are you suggesting the definition of "murder" was developed in a partisan way as to excuse abortion?

You're just crazy talking at this point.

And since you can't seem to wrap your head around my position despite drawing you a road map, I'm anti-abortion slightly less than I'm anti-nanny state. It's ironic, really, how your ilk pretends to be for less government intervention and deregulation unless the codification of laws isn't congruent with your personal beliefs.
Click to expand...
If person A believes something is legal that falls under an already illegal act, that's not further "regulation". Expressing an act that falls under murder isnt asking the government to manage it. Its asking the government to stop unlawful acts. We can point to a million different topics to illustrate that. Freeing slaves wasnt government regulation. Acknowledging an unborn baby is a human person leads to the unnatural killing of that baby as a murder. Go pick up your attempted gotcha moment and throw it back into the trash can where you get the rest of your takes on this.
 
#761
#761
tennvols77 said:
End thread. Just reality. Only other option is fighting it out and winner decides.
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That's actually not true. Many on the pro-life side of the fence are trying to change hearts and show the rest how inhumane Planned Parenthood really is.
 
#763
#763
mrmax86 said:
You are grossly misinformed on the mission of Planned Parenthood. MANY of their facilities do nothing but abortions. They do not refer for adoptions. They do not show their patients the ultrasounds they take (if they even take them), because they don't want them to have the chance to see the humanity on that ultrasound and change their mind. Abortions are $$$$ for them.

Go look at the statistics posted elsewhere in this thread, and you'll see how tiny of a percentage of abortions those unfortunate situations actually are. We should be spending the majority of our money and effort towards helping those people through their difficult situations, and the rest of the abortions, for convenience or socioeconomic reasons, should just not happen.
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The tiny percentage is also anything beyond the fist trimester.
 
#765
#765
mrmax86 said:
The definition of murder was created by humans. It used to be that murder was actually murder. But along the way, it became bastardized (people using technicalities to meet their own selfish ends).

I am not crazy talking.
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The definition is the definition - your unwillingness to accept that it doesn't help your argument is a 'you' problem. The blind rage you're exhibiting does little to improve your position. Grousing about partisanship in light of the terms and conditions being discussed is irrelevant and non-sensical, perhaps you should take a few minutes off and calm down.
 
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#766
#766
mrmax86 said:
Does life begin at fertilization? Yes
Is that the point at which a human is created? Yes
Does that two celled human have a soul? Not technically. I have a lot to learn here. Also not relevant in my argument.
Is there an eternity? (heaven/hell) Yes
Will the soul of that two celled human live eternally? With God's mercy, yes.
The good place or the bad place? With God's mercy, the good place.
Click to expand...
Does life begin at fertilization? Yes

Is that the point at which a human is created? Yes

Does that two celled human have a soul? As there is no proof that souls exist, who knows. I'd like to think there is.

Is there an eternity? (heaven/hell) Unknown, I hope there is but as we dont know, it is harder to justify killing a baby if this is that persons only shot at life

Will the soul of that two celled human live eternally? Hope so

The good place or the bad place? hopefully a good place but not guaranteed that death isnt just darkness.
 
#767
#767
utvols88 said:
If person A believes something is legal that falls under an already illegal act, that's not further "regulation". Expressing an act that falls under murder isnt asking the government to manage it. Its asking the government to stop unlawful acts. We can point to a million different topics to illustrate that. Freeing slaves wasnt government regulation. Acknowledging an unborn baby is a human person leads to the unnatural killing of that baby as a murder. Go pick up your attempted gotcha moment and throw it back into the trash can where you get the rest of your takes on this.
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Sure it is, making laws to usurp the SCOTUS decision is a 'regulation', by definition. To that end Alabama looking to toss physicians in jail for providing safe, competent health care that has already been ruled on as legal by the highest court in the land is absolutely 'regulation'.

pay attention to that last bit.
 
#769
#769
simvol said:
Given the near infinite possible manifestations of potential and the poverty of realized eventualities relative to what could be, I find it difficult to assign significance to the potential of an embryo to live a rich life as a highly sentient human being.

If my mother had an abortion I obviously wound't exist, but the absence of that procedure was merely one of the millions, maybe billions or trillions, of conditions that had to align just right for me to exist. There are countless geniuses, athletes, loving friends, etc. that will not exist due to abstinence, condoms, the randomness of sexual reproduction, etc.

Life is a miracle, reality is a miracle, let us focus on the optimizing the experiences and well-being of those who stand to benefit the most from our efforts in the present moment.
Click to expand...

However you want to justify murder is between you and God.
 
#771
#771
superdave1984 said:
What Exodus 21:22 Says about Abortion | Stand to Reason
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Is the Old Testament really where you want to plant your flag?

There are many places in the Old Testament where God commands people to wipe out other people, including women, children, and even infants. Common examples include the death of the first born babies in Egypt when Pharaoh refused to release the Israelites (Exodus 11:1-10), the total annihilation of Sodom and Gomora which included the children (Genesis 19:23-29), God’s command to Saul to destroy Amalek including “both man and woman, child and infant” (1 Samuel 15:3), and throughout Deuteronomy God commands the people to destroy the people in the lands they will be invading (Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 20:16-18).
 
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#772
#772
Septic said:
Is the Old Testament really where you want to plant your flag?

There are many places in the Old Testament where God commands people to wipe out other people, including women, children, and even infants. Common examples include the death of the first born babies in Egypt when Pharaoh refused to release the Israelites (Exodus 11:1-10), the total annihilation of Sodom and Gomora which included the children (Genesis 19:23-29), God’s command to Saul to destroy Amalek including “both man and woman, child and infant” (1 Samuel 15:3), and throughout Deuteronomy God commands the people to destroy the people in the lands they will be invading (Deuteronomy 2:34; 3:6; 20:16-18).
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Who is enacting those commands? God.
Are we God? No.
 
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#775
#775
Septic said:
Sure it is, making laws to usurp the SCOTUS decision is a 'regulation', by definition. To that end Alabama looking to toss physicians in jail for providing safe, competent health care that has already been ruled on as legal by the highest court in the land is absolutely 'regulation'.

pay attention to that last bit.
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Yeah because you simply meant the right doesnt like laws and are preferred anarchists as opposed to a killing of another person and robbing them of the right to simply be alive being equal to industry regulation.

Regarding the SCOTUS, I already said we can go back and review all of the things we viewed as normal even in a scotus setting that was overturned. This will be revisited and once it is, the decision should be with the states. Cant wait to see it unravel.
 
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