Abortions and the bible.

#501
#501
rjd970 said:
“Developing” is a key word there. It’s developing into something, it isn’t that something yet. It’s true, we are constantly developing, if we’re are talking semantics, until we die. I think the point you quoted was stating that at some point in that development the capacity for pain, suffering, joy, consciousness, brain activity, responding to stimuli, pursuit of happiness, etc will start. While in development before that, it is more a part of the woman’s body than it is an individual person and doesn’t have that capacity. As such, society has deemed the woman gets to choose what to do in that case.

Now, I think what is going on in VA and NY is disgusting. So looking at his through the lens of an actual person suffering isn’t unreasonable.
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Yes, and an infant isn’t an adolescent. An adolescent isn’t an adult. Which one has no value? And no we aren’t constantly developing. You and I will not develop any more. We are decaying.
When you abort you rob and destroy the course of human life, period. That’s a fact, not an opinion. It i not a part of the women’s body. I suggest you Take biology. In fact a pregnant women’s body will naturally focus itself to protect and nurture that unique, developing human life. A women does not have two DNA profiles.
 
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#502
#502
Roustabout said:
Yes, and an infant isn’t an adolescent. An adolescent isn’t an adult. Which one has no value? And no we aren’t constantly developing. You and I will not develop any more. We are decaying.
When you abort you rob and destroy the course of human life, period. That’s a fact, not an opinion. It i not a part of the women’s body. I suggest you Take biology. In fact a pregnant women’s body will naturally focus itself to protect and nurture that unique, developing human life. A women does not have two DNA profiles.
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You are still forcing a woman to undertake a risk and carry it to term.
 
#503
#503
luthervol said:
You are advocating for forcing these stupid people to carry to term a pregnancy they do not want.
So they will be stupid parents to a child they did not want. That sounds promising.
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Maybe we should just punish children for the stupidity of their parents. How about that?
 
#505
#505
ClearwaterVol said:
You are still forcing a woman to undertake a risk and carry it to term.
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In one sense, yes. I’ve admitted that plainly in other discussions.

If you’re right (and the unborn aren’t valuable) then we are wrongly forcing a women to do something.
However, if I’m right then the unborn do have value, and we do have an obligation to nurture and protect, which supersedes.
I would define motherhood as a responsibility. A good mother is responsible and nurturing. A bad mother is not. When does the phase of motherhood begin? Hint: pregnancy.
 
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#507
#507
Roustabout said:
In one sense, yes. I’ve admitted that plainly in other discussions.

If you’re right (and the unborn aren’t valuable) then we are wrongly forcing a women to do something.
However, if I’m right then the unborn do have value, and we do have an obligation to nurture and protect, which supersedes.
I would define motherhood as a responsibility. A good mother is responsible and nurturing. A bad mother is not. When does the phase of motherhood begin? Hint: pregnancy.
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A good mother may very well determine that the best course of action for her current and future children is to end her current pregnancy.
 
#509
#509
Roustabout said:
The arrogance of that statement would laughable if it weren’t so terrifying. You’d have been a good henchmen for Hitler.
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Get a clue. You can't be blind to the effects of bad parenting.
 
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#510
#510
volfanjustin said:
So future children more worthy of living than current child, got it. Man I tell you, a liberal mind is a very scary mind.
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What current child? The embryo?
I said current children should be taken into account (meaning the children already born).
 
#514
#514
82_VOL_83 said:
I am and have been an advocate for forced sterilization.
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I think forced sterilization absolutely has a place. For example, if you have your kid(s) taken away because of your criminal activity or drug use, then part of your sentence should include sterilization. I agree with whoever stated previously that if you are too lazy to use the free birth control readily available at the health department, then you are likely too lazy to care for a child. You might be too stupid as well. So you might want to think about using some self control rather than humping like rabbits. This goes for both sexes.

And with that, I think I will have to exit this topic. As a man I simply cannot understand what pregnancy does to a woman. I cannot understand what her mind goes through. I cannot understand the choice she would have to make if she found herself in the position of considering abortion. This subject has been heavy on my mind for a few days now. I think it is best solved by women rather than men. While I would advocate for the life of the fetus, I will defer to the women. The fetus is not, has not, and will not grow inside of a man. Ladies, I will continue to pray for you if you are in the position of considering abortion. Your forgiveness is guaranteed if you sincerely ask for it from the Father. You cannot reverse the decision, so I would urge you to consider as much as you can prior to making it. Do not act hastily.
 
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#515
#515
Roustabout said:
Yes, and an infant isn’t an adolescent. An adolescent isn’t an adult. Which one has no value? And no we aren’t constantly developing. You and I will not develop any more. We are decaying.
When you abort you rob and destroy the course of human life, period. That’s a fact, not an opinion. It i not a part of the women’s body. I suggest you Take biology. In fact a pregnant women’s body will naturally focus itself to protect and nurture that unique, developing human life. A women does not have two DNA profiles.
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I dunno, so long as the fetus isn't viable on its own and is supported through the womans placenta via the umbilical cord - the woman does have two DNA profiles.
 
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#516
#516
Roustabout said:
In one sense, yes. I’ve admitted that plainly in other discussions.

If you’re right (and the unborn aren’t valuable) then we are wrongly forcing a women to do something.
However, if I’m right then the unborn do have value, and we do have an obligation to nurture and protect, which supersedes.
I would define motherhood as a responsibility. A good mother is responsible and nurturing. A bad mother is not. When does the phase of motherhood begin? Hint: pregnancy.
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I agree and still disagree with your conclusion.
 
#517
#517
superdave1984 said:
I think forced sterilization absolutely has a place. For example, if you have your kid(s) taken away because of your criminal activity or drug use, then part of your sentence should include sterilization. I agree with whoever stated previously that if you are too lazy to use the free birth control readily available at the health department, then you are likely too lazy to care for a child. You might be too stupid as well. So you might want to think about using some self control rather than humping like rabbits. This goes for both sexes.

And with that, I think I will have to exit this topic. As a man I simply cannot understand what pregnancy does to a woman. I cannot understand what her mind goes through. I cannot understand the choice she would have to make if she found herself in the position of considering abortion. This subject has been heavy on my mind for a few days now. I think it is best solved by women rather than men. While I would advocate for the life of the fetus, I will defer to the women. The fetus is not, has not, and will not grow inside of a man. Ladies, I will continue to pray for you if you are in the position of considering abortion. Your forgiveness is guaranteed if you sincerely ask for it from the Father. You cannot reverse the decision, so I would urge you to consider as much as you can prior to making it. Do not act hastily.
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I think that if there could be a way found of sterilizing then reversing with 99.99% success at ANY later date, all male children post adolescence should have it. At a later date it can be reversed if earned. I don't know the answers to the abuse thats about to rain down so I won't. The idea is to keep pregnancy from happening until people are "fit" to have kids.
 
#518
#518
Roustabout said:
Pain?
So if you can kill born humans without pain, you can justify it?
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It's justifiable if the person desires it. In the absence of a chronic illness I would advocate for assisted suicide only after all mental health resources have been exhausted.
 
#519
#519
Roustabout said:
The arrogance of that statement would laughable if it weren’t so terrifying. You’d have been a good henchmen for Hitler.
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If reality is terrifying, then welcome to the real world. A great number of people in therapy or on pyschotropic meds were horribly screwed up by their parents in some way.
 
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#523
#523
Roustabout said:
Yes, and an infant isn’t an adolescent. An adolescent isn’t an adult. Which one has no value? And no we aren’t constantly developing. You and I will not develop any more. We are decaying.
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I very clearly stated once capacity for feeling, thinking, reacting, etc is when that value is placed. We can disagree, but simple DNA material is not a person before that in my opinion.

And I knew you would argue semantics here. Personally, I feel like I am still developing - emotionally, intellectually, socially...however, that said, since you say I should take a biology course (which I have, multiple college level ones) I would like your expert answer on when the cutoff from development to decay happens. You are making that semantic distinction, and I would like to know the biological fact on where that line is.

Roustabout said:
When you abort you rob and destroy the course of human life, period. That’s a fact, not an opinion. It i not a part of the women’s body. I suggest you Take biology. In fact a pregnant women’s body will naturally focus itself to protect and nurture that unique, developing human life. A women does not have two DNA profiles.
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Look at the bold. I stated in an earlier post, you may be ending the course of a human life, but you are not destroying a person. Do I know when that happens, biologically? No. And neither do you. The only thing we know is we have unique DNA at conception. That's it. Unique DNA =/= person. If your position is what really matters is just having unique DNA and that defines a person than that is your opinion and that is fine. My opinion is a person is made up of more than just DNA. The only biological fact you can state is we have unique DNA and a DEVELOPING human. Everything else is opinion.
 
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#525
#525
Matt2496 said:
This has been one roller coaster of a thread.
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thunderbird.gif


Or maybe this?
 
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